Friday, February 24th 2012

AMD Designing Next-Gen Playstation's GPU

Sony has begun working on its next-generation gaming console under the Playstation brand, and Forbes learned that it's none other than AMD designing its graphics processing unit (GPU). AMD is far from new to the game console GPU business, as its GPUs already drive graphics processing in Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii consoles. If launched anytime soon, the next-gen Playstation will create a rare moment where GPUs of all three major game console makers would be AMD-made. The current Playstation 3 console uses an NVIDIA GPU.

Source: Forbes
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118 Comments on AMD Designing Next-Gen Playstation's GPU

#1
neko77025
Good Old Fanboy-ism at its best at work in these replys. PPL will defend their GPU team no matter what the truth is.

Since the ATI 9800pro/Xt .. ATI has only had A few bad GPUs (38XX). I have probably owned more GPUs then most. I was 18 when I frist had the need for A GPU. It was the Monster VooDoo2 12MB... took me like 4 pay checks from the comic book store to pay for it. I am now 32, I have owned well over 25gpu (some were dupes SLI/Crossfire).

When I was younger and did not have bills (or women/sex) I would buy the best GPU no matter what the cost. .. As I got older, have too many bills (sex w/ women) Value took over. for me AMD is A better Value & I never have these driver issues ppl always talk about. (well I do have crossfire driver issues on new games)

Point is, their is Never A total better brand .. .. they each have their highs & lows... all that being said ATI(now amd) dont make bad gpus and are not far behind nvida on sales... in fact if you look at real data... ATI / AMD is gaining % and nvida is losing.

Also, the new xbox gpu is in fact AMD/ATI. So they now have all 3x of the consoles
Posted on Reply
#2
baggpipes
Out of all the consoles we can without a doubt know who should be more powerful now...
Posted on Reply
#3
Dj-ElectriC
Complete Console Domination 150G

Achievement Unlocked
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#4
Nihilus
Wow, great deal for AMD. Maybe I should have held my AMD stock a little longer. Bought at $4.30 sold at about $7.20 Still the easiest $1500 I ever made so no complains here! :roll:

The advantage to this is it should make cross-platform programming much easier to optimize, saving the consumers money (doubt it but whatever).

The above poster said the HD 38xx was one of the only bad GPUs. Had one myself and it was very efficient. I think he means the HD29xxs which were hot power-hungry dogs.
Posted on Reply
#5
_JP_
*cough*
RUMOR!
*cough*

*ahem*
I'm sorry, but that article has no facts nor confirmations from both factions.
AMD declined to comment on the project. Sony Chief Transformation Officer George Bailey also declined to discuss Sony’s new console, or even acknowledge its existence.
A) Because probably there is no project (They have piledriver, trinity, the rest of the HD7x00 to worry about)
B) Because Sony still hasn't milked the PS3 yet, or whatever...
However, at AMD’s analyst day last month, AMD Chief Financial Officer Thomas Seifert identified gaming as one of several trends that will drive revenue growth at AMD in 2012.
Gee, I don't know...Radeon? APUs? :\
Posted on Reply
#6
cadaveca
My name is Dave
Nihilus said:
I think he means the HD29xxs which were hot power-hungry dogs.
me too:

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#7
HTC
Wouldn't it make more sense to put a 7750 in these instead of a 6670? The price is similar but the performance is way better:

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#8
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
after the way sony has treated ps3 owners why would anyone want a ps4??? certainly not me.
Posted on Reply
#9
Benetanegia
TheMailMan78 said:
Yes bully them into making bucket loads of money in the console market. Poor, poor AMD.
That's not what I said. Money they will make, but they will not fight as much as Nvidia would. AMD does not fight over prices as much as Intel, Nvidia, etc. It's a fact and it's the same for servers, etc. Maybe bully was not the best word, but that's why I used "".

Most probably in the same situation I described AMD would have conceeded to a new agreement. Nvidia didn't and is not likely to do now either, hence, aside from the better perf/watt of AMD's VLIW design, in part they are moving to AMD because it's easier for them to work with the small company that will give no trouble. Denying that this is a factor is naive and stupid.

EDIT: And in general, before you talk about "making bucket loads of money" maybe you should take a look at AMD's financials for the last half a decade. They already had 2/3 of consoles and that didn't help much, one more won't make them "make bucket loads of money", especially when all 3 consoles are rumored to use mid-range level cards as oposed to high-end chips at the time of release. How much do you think AMD will be making selling HD6600s in 2017?
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#10
cadaveca
My name is Dave
Benetanegia said:
Most probably in the same situation I described AMD would have conceeded to a new agreement. Nvidia didn't and is not likely to do now either, hence, aside from the better perf/watt of AMD's VLIW design, in part they are moving to AMD because it's easier for them to work with the small company that will give no trouble. Denying that this is a factor is naive and stupid.
Speculation is useless. THAT, i think, was Mailman's point. You are suggesting things that cannot be verified, and as such, are totally questionable. I mean, don't get me wrong, if that's your opinion, that's perfectly fine, but to construe it as fact is another thing entirely.

AMD, and whoever else, are just gonna do what brings in the best profits. Except nVidia...Jen Hsun's ego is far too large for him to concede control for profit. You cannot compare the two. they aren't even in the same business, for christ's sake.
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#11
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
uh oh, looks like this article is pulling the trolls out of their mom's basement! run for the hills!
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#12
Benetanegia
cadaveca said:
AMD, and whoever else, are just gonna do what brings in the best profits. Except nVidia...Jen Hsun's ego is far too large for him to concede control for profit. You cannot compare the two. they aren't even in the same business, for christ's sake.
Read the edit. And no Jen Hsun's ego does not prevent Nvidia from getting much much higher profits than AMD. And this is fact.
Posted on Reply
#13
cadaveca
My name is Dave
Benetanegia said:
And no Jen Hsun's ego does not prevent Nvidia from getting much much higher profits than AMD. And this is fact.
Again, opinion, as my own post was. ;)

Also, we can say that NV's lack of merging with AMD says you are very wrong in that opinion.

ALso I read your edit..i tihnk you are missing the point that sales in connsole might reap benefits in other markets as well. It's not liek they jsut do VGA cards, ot jsut CPUs for servers, or jsut APUs..they have a very board range marketable products that are customized to it's respective market.

A win in the console space shows how adaptable they are to meeting customer needs...mainly the customers who sell consoles...

Easy Rhino said:
uh oh, looks like this article is pulling the trolls out of their mom's basement! run for the hills!
Must be....you're here...;) :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#14
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
cadaveca said:
Again, opinion, as my own post was. ;)

Also, we can say that NV's lack of merging with AMD says you are very wrong in that opinion.



Must be....you're here...;) :laugh:
yes but i came out of your mom's basement :roll:
Posted on Reply
#15
Benetanegia
cadaveca said:
Again, opinion, as my own post was. ;)
I'ts not opinion, take a look at the financials of both companies.
Also, we can say that NV's lack of merging with AMD says you are very wrong in that opinion.[/B]
lol, who's speculating now? Again facts. Ati got much worse after the adquisition, and lost the mobile division, Nvidia has grown and extended to other markets. Who won and who lost with the adquisition.
A win in the console space shows how adaptable they are to meeting customer needs...mainly the customers who sell consoles...
Again speculating. Yeah and their needs are something that works and that is cheap. They do meet those requirements, but looking at the past 5 years, they meet them by exchanging market share for profits, contracts in servers for profits, presence in consoles for profits. And this is fact, look at the financials. Is it better for AMD to have those contracts than not having them? Sure. Would it be better for Nvidia or Intel to get them? Not at the reduced profits AMD is willing to accept. This in servers, it is an undeniable fact, or you are going to pretend that so many server creators prefer AMD over Intel, or owrse yet that Intel cannot win those designs because it cannot compete at AMD's prices? They are not willing to do it, which is a very different thing.
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#16
cadaveca
My name is Dave
Um, most of what you say can be construed as fact, however, it was only fact before Rory Read took over. As of that point, AMD became a different company(or did you not read the article?). In AMD's own "official" words, what you call as my speculation, they say is fact. I mean, sure, things were different in the past...but I have no need, or want, to dwell on mistakes...you learn from mistakes, not obsess over them. It's called "growth".

Financials do not tell the story of what a company is doing. Fact is, nvidia, by Jen Hsun's own speech, is NOT a hardware company..they are a software comapny, that also sells hardware.

That mindset has nVidia market it's software, and then leverages that software to make extra sales via hardware that works best with the software they sell. Jen Hsun wanted to do the same with AMD, and make them something they are not today, but what nVidia is today. That's his ego...playing a role. Just becuase I used the word ego, doesn't make it a bad thing. Everyone has one. That ego is what makes nVidia the success they are.

AMD, in the reverse, is a hardware company, that relies on otherd to make software that uses the solutions AMD privdes to the best it can. Very different companies, very different goals and ideals, and very different approaches to success. Thus, they are not truly comparable, except that they both operate within the same confines of the tech market.


And because they are not comparable, they were chosen to provide the desgins, based on the difference in the package they offered. You construe this as a bad thing, however, it's exactly what their customers asked for, clearly by them winning these contracts. it's not them being pushed around, or bullied..it's them conforming to the needs of their customers, and ultimately, that is the path to success. You see this as a weakness...when clearly, I, and their customers, see it as a strength.
Posted on Reply
#17
Benetanegia
cadaveca said:
Um, most of what you say can be construed as fact, however, it ws only fact before Rory Read took over. as of that point, AMD became a different company. In AMD's own "official" words, what you call as my speculation, they say is fact. I mean, sure, things were differnt in the past...but I have no need, or want, to dwell on mistakes...you learn from mistakes, not obsess over them.


Financials do not tell the story of what a company is doing. Fact is, nvidia, by Jen Hsun's own speech, is NOT a hardware company..they are a software comapny, that also sells hardware.

That mindset has nVidia market it's software, and then leverages that software to make extra sales via hardware that works best with the software they sell. Jen Hsun wante dto do the smae with AMD, and make them something they are not today, but what nVidia is today. That's his ego...playing a role. Just becuase I used the word ego, doesn't make it a bad thing. Everyone has one.
Wow. Speaking of speculation. Jen Hsun wanted to do what?? :laugh:

The comment about them being a software company has nothing to do with what you pretend. Nvidia does not sell any software that I'm aware of (maybe Mental Ray). He was most definitely refering to the fact that what sells GPUs are games or other apps that need GPUs and that they are focused on improving those. Nothing wrong with that.
And because they are not comparable, they were chosen to provide the desgins, based on the difference in the package they offered. You construe this as a bad thing, however, it's exactly what their customers asked for, clearly by them winning these contracts. it's not them being pushed around, or bullied..it's them conforming to the needs of their customers, and ultimately, that is the path to success. You see this as a weakness...when clearly, I, and their customers, see it as a strength.
Speculating again. They won the contracts because they offered what customers wanted for a lower price. Come on, how does AMD and Nvidia get Apple contracts too? You can pretend that there's something other than pure bussiness behind the decisions, but there is not. They met both brands and the one who was willing to give more for less won. That has nothing to do with how the companies work and certainly nothing to do with egos. Nvidia will be fine. Look the same was said when M$ used AMD cards for the Xbox360, but luckily we have history to teach us the reality.

And pretending that with Road AMD is completely different is absurd. AMD has been changing CEO more than slips and that didn't make it very different and certainly not better, which is what we are talking about.

In any case I never said this was something bad for AMD, that's an invention of yours. I admit "bully" was not the best owrd, but I don't know how to express it better.
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#18
cadaveca
My name is Dave
Benetanegia said:
That has nothing to do with how the companies work and certainly nothing to do with egos. Nvidia will be fine. Look the same was said when M$ used AMD cards for the Xbox360, but luckily we have history to teach us the reality.
The differences of ego between those in control of each company is what makes them differnt....i dunno wtf you are going on about. :laugh: Perhaps watching Jen Hsun's speech (GTX480 launch with woodscrews) might show you why I feel the way I do.

Benetanegia said:
And pretending that with Road AMD is completely different is absurd. AMD has been changing CEO more than slips and that didn't make it very different and certainly not better, which is what we are talking about.
You didn't read the article. The change Rory brought was getting the AMD staff hyped and excited...as said in the article. to say he's had no impact is asinine in light of the info the article presents. It's entriely about Rory, and the changes he's brought to AMD...I know the OP doesn't exactly convey this, but like I said, you clearly didn't read the Forbes article.

Here's the tagline from the article:
Clown, copycat, casualty. AMD has been many things. Rory Read wants to learn to turn the processor designer into the one thing it’s never been: a killer.
and a line:
“You guys are working way too hard to be where you are today,” Read told the crowd, according to a former AMD employee who attended the meeting. “AMDers are pirates. We need to get back to that pirate mentality.”

The AMDers, desperate for inspirational leadership, ate it up. Later that day someone bought Read a pirate hat. Says one former AMD employee: “People were psyched.”
And the actual article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briancaulfield/2012/02/22/the-predator/
Posted on Reply
#19
JMccovery
Benetanegia said:
Yeah but there was a reason for that and had nothing to do with Nvidia. Sony wanted Cell to do the graphics. When they realized that was stupid and Cell had nothing to do against a true GPU, they asked Nvidia to make them one ASAP and with such a short time they agreed to RSX.

Sony learned from its mistake, but it has nothing to do AMD or Nvidia's competence, they learned and went to a GPU directly.

And they go AMD in part because they can "bully" them, just as M$ did. Both Sony (PS3) and M$ (Xbox) reached agreement with Nvidia for a certain GPU at a certain price at a certain date. Nvidia delivered, but when their consoles were delayed for reasons not concerning Nvidia (i.e bluray), Sony and M$ tried to "bully" Nvidia into a new agreement over the price of those GPUs Nvidia had been stockpiling, because by that time, those chips had been made obsolete by other GPUs in the PC market.
The problem with this train of thought is that ATi did not 'make' the GPUs in the 360 or the Gamecube/Wii, both Nintendo and Microsoft licensed the GPU tech from ATi and manufactured the chips themselves. Now, Nvidia did manufacture the XGPU (NV1A) in the original Xbox, but they did not manufacture the RSX, Sony made the RSX. It was based on G71 because that was the most powerful architecture that Nvidia was willing to license at the time.
Posted on Reply
#20
theoneandonlymrk
Benetanegia said:
AMD does not fight over prices as much as Intel, Nvidia, etc. It's a fact and it's the same for servers, etc. Maybe bully was not the best word, but that's why I used "".
so the fact they parted from their own manufacturing arm then held said arm over a barrel to get lower per chip(not per wafer) prices dosnt count as aggressive to you then, Amd are still around Despite intels cpu making greatnessm, not because of being weak m8.

and cadveca is bang on when he says AMD have their hands in many baskets, with their advanced Soc capabillities they are all set to rival arm in oem sales, and in just for purpose chip design

all 3 in the pocket is going to happen ,why do you think nvidia are pushing their tech into GPGPU so hard and focusing on tegra so much, they know where their breads going to be buttered

55.5 million playstations to make gpus for,65.8 million new xbox,s to provide GPU's for

95 million wiiu's to also possibly supply with gpus all over the next 5-10 years, :eek: wow they are going to be busy(wikki'd) if they only got a pound in proffit per chip, that their is still BEEEads

Benetanegia said:
Good for you and AMD fans. The rest of us have our feet in the ground
and your head up nvidias ass given your average post


i do hope they dont forget PD as im waiting
Posted on Reply
#21
Benetanegia
The change Rory brought was getting the AMD staff hyped and excited.
Yeah and you drink the same koolaid. Good for you and AMD fans. The rest of us have our feet in the ground and are realistic and skeptical about that "change".

The line of "old was bad, new is good" is as old as our history, and in case you don't follow history, it's never true.
Posted on Reply
#22
cadaveca
My name is Dave
Benetanegia said:
Good for you and AMD fans.
You miss the point that I am not an AMD fan. If anything, I might be their toughest critic. While you feel I may be an AMD fan, I'm here posting and telling people to buy Intel, because it's faster, and cheaper. No fan is going to tell peopel to go somewhere else.


I just chose to ignore marketing hype, and look at the big picture. That included me saying that AMD and Intel were not in direct competition, to only have that same thing repeated by AMD themselves several weeks later. The only reason I knew that this was going to be the direction they took...was because it's common sense. Unless of course, you think that AMD is listening to me...because that's really stupid.

AMD roadmap has changed, staff has changed, and company focus has changed as well. You are right that those changes may not lead to the success they are raching for, but I'm not going to call it a failure before they have a chance to step into action.
Posted on Reply
#23
Benetanegia
theoneandonlymrk said:
so the fact they parted from their own manufacturing arm then held said arm over a barrel to get lower per chip(not per wafer) prices dosnt count as aggressive to you then, Amd are still around Despite intels cpu making greatnessm, not because of being weak m8.

and cadveca is bang on when he says AMD have their hands in many baskets, with their advanced Soc capabillities they are all set to rival arm in oem sales, and in just for purpose chip design

all 3 in the pocket is going to happen ,why do you think nvidia are pushing their tech into GPGPU so hard and focusing on tegra so much, they know where their breads going to be buttered

55.5 million playstations to make gpus for,65.8 million new xbox,s to provide GPU's for

95 million wiiu's to also possibly supply with gpus all over the next 5-10 years, :eek: wow they are going to be busy(wikki'd) if they only got a pound in proffit per chip, that their is still BEEEads

and your head up nvidias ass given your average post


i do hope they dont forget PD as im waiting
They already made the GPUs for those 95 million Wii's and 65 million XBoxes, and that didn't make their financials any better than they have been. A few more PS's won't change the picture much. That is my point.

To extend the point, if console contracts were the money makers that some people are pretending it to be. AMD would have been making shedloads of profits already. And they don't.

cadaveca said:
You miss the point that I am not an AMD fan. If anything, I might be their toughest critic. Whiel you feel I may be an AMD fan, I'm here posting and telling people to buy Intel, because it's faster, and cheaper.
I didn't say you are an AMD fanboy. I said you and (also) AMD fans are probably happy with that koolaid.
Posted on Reply
#24
Crap Daddy
90% of console users have no idea what's in the box and they don't care and shouldn't care.
It's only us here who spend pretty often hundreds of whatever currency to update our monstrous GPUs to play games that are designed to run on small boxes equipped with cheap hardware.
It's very good that AMD will provide parts for consoles, they need every bit of success they can to make some profit and keep afloat. On the other hand we shouldn't be worried about NV, they are doing fine even if it's not so evident in the GPU sector, the one we all love so much. Let's not forget that the market cap of NV is almost double than that of AMD.
Posted on Reply
#25
faramir
TC-man said:
Well, it's not only that AMD is cheaper, it's also that Sony learns from its mistake, since the Nvidia's RSX gpu for the PS3 is just a modified Geforce 7800gt with reduced ROPs, I believe. AMD (ATI) designed a totally new and more advanced gpu (Xenos) for the Xbox 360 with embedded memory and unified shader architecture and all, and the result was evident, even now when compared to PS3 graphics in games, especially in most cross-platform games that are available for both console.
Indeed it was, Xbox 360 has much crappier graphics than PS3. The most evident case of that I can think of is GTA4 where buildings and other objects just pop out of nowhere (result of low rendering distance to keep the framerate manageable). I played this game on friend's PS3 first so the difference was stunning, I couldn't get used to tis annoyance, it made quick action scenes (when you're chasing someone etc.) much more frustrating as objects appeared where it used to look like free passable space.

That GPU in Xbox 360 is a piece of poop so no wonder results are so underwhelming. I'm a long time ATI user, currently running HD5770 but the Xbox GPU downright sucks.
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