Pretty cool news. I wonder how much more it costs to use this new HBM memory over regular GDDR5. I hope this new gen of HBM is cheaper to implement than the previous one. I'd like to see a $350 GFX with this memory.

Nvidia's cards since their 900 series have been doing more than well in memory bandwidth. I think the source behind the performance jump they made with their 900 series cards back 2014 is their delta color compression implementation, which as apposed to AMD's DCC implementation, is not entirely lossless.
Nvidia has been approximating color values when pixel deltas are "very small", saving a lot of bandwidth and speeding up computation in the process.

Captain_TomLink?

He's bullshitting. High end entusiast cards will never outsell mainstream simply because the market of people who want to spend over $400 on a graphics card is very small.

If you called Micro-Center when the RX 480 was released you'd quickly realize that the RX 480 had 10 times more volume than the GTX 1080 and 1070. 10 times more and they are still sold out everywhere should tell you how good of a card the RX 480 is. With the recent doom and tombraider patches that add Vulkan and DX 12 it's obvious that AMD cards smoke Nvidia when it comes to new APIs. The RX 480 beating the GTX 1080 in doom is just embaressing for Nvidia.

evernessinceHe's bullshitting. High end entusiast cards will never outsell mainstream simply because the market of people who want to spend over $400 on a graphics card is very small.

If you called Micro-Center when the RX 480 was released you'd quickly realize that the RX 480 had 10 times more volume than the GTX 1080 and 1070. 10 times more and they are still sold out everywhere should tell you how good of a card the RX 480 is. With the recent doom and tombraider patches that add Vulkan and DX 12 it's obvious that AMD cards smoke Nvidia when it comes to new APIs. The RX 480 beating the GTX 1080 in doom is just embaressing for Nvidia.

well, it doesnt beat the 1080, unless you meant the 1070. on the rest i agree, though its off topic.

Captain_TomLink?

evernessinceHe's bullshitting. High end entusiast cards will never outsell mainstream simply because the market of people who want to spend over $400 on a graphics card is very small.

If you called Micro-Center when the RX 480 was released you'd quickly realize that the RX 480 had 10 times more volume than the GTX 1080 and 1070. 10 times more and they are still sold out everywhere should tell you how good of a card the RX 480 is. With the recent doom and tombraider patches that add Vulkan and DX 12 it's obvious that AMD cards smoke Nvidia when it comes to new APIs. The RX 480 beating the GTX 1080 in doom is just embaressing for Nvidia.

I'm not bullshitting, why would I do that?

What you have not considered is that the Nordic countries spend a lot more on high-end components than the rest of the world. RX 480 is simply too expensive here for what it brings to the table. If you are lucky you can buy a RX 480 for equivalent ~310$, while Nvidias cards a closer to their MSRP.

Here is the link:
www.nordichardware.se/nyheter/geforce-gtx-1080-saljer-10-ganger-battre-radeon-rx-480.html

The reference RX 480 has been pretty much a failure over here, just because of the pricing.

Here's something to ponder there's about the same amount of people in the Greater Los Angeles Basin than there is in Norway, Sweden and Finland. Do you think there's a younger population (13-35) in the Nordic region, vs. LA?

While I always wonder how there a justification when people in different region blame the manufactures for the pricing of products Like one manufacture is saying let's try making better margins in the economic region while, the competition is thinking let's worse margins and sell at lower prices. If there's a significant discrepancy in the pricing against the MSRP (USD) it's tariffs, shipping, distributors, taxes, and sellers that are the major culprit.

CasecutterHere's something to ponder there's about the same amount of people in the Greater Los Angeles Basin than there is in Norway, Sweden and Finland. Do you think there's a younger population (13-35) in the Nordic region, vs. LA?

While I always wonder how there a justification when people in different region blame the manufactures for the pricing of products Like one manufacture is saying let's try making better margins in the economic region while, the competition is thinking let's worse margins and sell at lower prices. If there's a significant discrepancy in the pricing against the MSRP (USD) it's tariffs, shipping, distributors, taxes, and sellers that are the major culprit.

That's not the issue here though. This is not the first time a GPU releases in the nordics you know?

RX 480 is abnormaly priced compared to other products, including AMDs previous cards.

NokironRX 480 is abnormaly priced compared to other products, including AMDs previous cards.

Wow you folks have some wonky economics, or it's just with the limits as to inventory the system is gouging.

I don't know if you'd put a lot of faith in a article 10 days after the RX 480 releasing with even the author Anton Karmehed already indicating the site he writes for offer a criticizing review? A unmanned distributor said... And yea no one in their right mind would buy a RX480 at 2,535 Krona, $295 USD or 25% over MSRP.

So a day later and this is written Anton Karmehed; here he's saying the Asus 1080 STIX is 7990 kronor that's $930 USD... up from 7490 kronor $872 USD! That way up from a $700 MSRP Founders Edition of $699 or what should be 6016 kronor.
www.nordichardware.se/nyheter/priser-pa-geforce-gtx-1080-och-gtx-1070-sverige-okar.html

Overpriced or out-of-stock we should just not touch them, and they'll come around to their senses. Heck the best deal today is a PowerColor 380X PCS+ 380X for $150 after $20 Rebate and 10% code at Newegg... That's only 1290 kronor!

CasecutterWow you folks have some wonky economics, or it's just with the limits as to inventory the system is gouging.

I don't know if you'd put a lot of faith in a article 10 days after the RX 480 releasing with even the author Anton Karmehed already indicating the site he writes for offer a criticizing review? A unmanned distributor said... And yea no one in their right mind would buy a RX480 at 2,535 Krona, $295 USD or 25% over MSRP.

So a day later and this is written Anton Karmehed; here he's saying the Asus 1080 STIX is 7990 kronor that's $930 USD... up from 7490 kronor $872 USD! That way up from a $700 MSRP Founders Edition of $699 or what should be 6016 kronor.
www.nordichardware.se/nyheter/priser-pa-geforce-gtx-1080-och-gtx-1070-sverige-okar.html

Overpriced or out-of-stock we should just not touch them, and they'll come around to their senses. Heck the best deal today is a PowerColor 380X PCS+ 380X for $150 after $20 Rebate and 10% code at Newegg... That's only 1290 kronor!

According to some sources at some nordic websites the high pricing is caused by third-party manufacturers.
So I don't know what's going on there. There is really low margins on the cards from the retailers.

Response to your edit:
What you have to consider is our 25% tax on items. It has never happened, but MSRP are usually matched, so if something has a 699 USD MSRP we almost always get a retail price of minimum 6999 SEK. Asus and the like also raised their prices by around 300-500 SEK becuase of the USD rising.
The GTX 1080 is still "cheaper" than other high-end cards like the 980 Ti was at launch.

My 980 Ti Classified cost around 8500 SEK at relase for example. That's why GTX 1080 sells.

The 380X sells for around 2300 SEK for comparsion.

NokironThe 380X sells for around 2300 SEK for comparsion.

For comparison a EVGA GTX 960 4GB ACX 2.0+ same $20 rebate and 10% Code... $175 1500 SEK and no 960 is worth more (well a least that much more) than a 380X.
What's that saying from Hamlet that Marcellus spouted...

$ReaPeR$well, it doesnt beat the 1080, unless you meant the 1070. on the rest i agree, though its off topic.

It does in the new Doom vulkan patch.

NokironI'm not bullshitting, why would I do that?

What you have not considered is that the Nordic countries spend a lot more on high-end components than the rest of the world. RX 480 is simply too expensive here for what it brings to the table. If you are lucky you can buy a RX 480 for equivalent ~310$, while Nvidias cards a closer to their MSRP.

Here is the link:
www.nordichardware.se/nyheter/geforce-gtx-1080-saljer-10-ganger-battre-radeon-rx-480.html

The reference RX 480 has been pretty much a failure over here, just because of the pricing.

That article is an early report and doesn't represent really anything. The GTX 1080 and 1070 have sold more simply because AMD is not quick to your market and Nvidia has had more time.

It is far far far too early to call the RX 480 is a failure just based on a very early report. That's like saying the Nordic countries don't like saving money.

evernessinceIt does in the new Doom vulkan patch.

no mate..

CasecutterOnly place I see good amounts of "in stock" is England, In the USA it seem to gotten better there's some 1070 EVGA, Gigabyte, MSI, while it looks like the Zotac boat came-in if your into those... Most nicer customs (EVGA, Gigabyte, MSI) are like $460, while some perhaps some lower grades like the "GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1070 DirectX 12 GV-N1070G1 GAMING-8GD 8GB" at $430. There's a "ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1070 AMP! Edition, ZT-P10700C-10P, 8GB GDDR5 IceStorm Cooling, Metal Wraparound Carbon ExoArmor exterior, Ultra-wide 100mm Fans, Spectra Lighting, PowerBoost, FREEZE Fan Stop"... that's a month-full version is $440.

The cards are indeed popular, and the fact remains the cards are available to buy, and were available on the dates they said they would be, as you well know.

www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-now-available.222805/#post-3464292

NokironWell, that really depends on the market. In the nordics, retailers are selling ten GTX 1080 for every RX 480.

OK, but last time I checked there was only 10 Million people in Sweden.
That just doesn't seem to be a lot of sales compared to other areas of the world.

@Nokiron you heard it here first, AMD fans think Sweden doesn't matter!

Fluffmeister@Nokiron you heard it here first, AMD fans think Sweden doesn't matter!

Well, if out of a 10 Million population, and 10 out of 11 Swedes that actually bought video cards are Team Green; then I guess the Nvidia fans are jumping up and down about those 850 cards sold.

LoosenutI do see this as a possibility for APU's in consoles though

It's being worked on.. Both the PS4 and Xbox have an APU with both CPU and GPU stitched on top.

But it only makes sense to put HBM on a chip that actually can benefit from it. We need to wait for ZEN and see what it does.

I believe AMD had priority on HBM2 since it had a contributing role into designing the interposer that's used on Fury X chips.

evernessinceIt does in the new Doom vulkan patch.

Might want to fact check before you basically attack a topic..lol

$ReaPeR$no mate..

So for a guy with limited technological knowledge. What does HBM2 mean, say in potential terms of performance?

Much more bandwidth, lower latency, lower power usage, and more then 4GB of memory (max of 16GB) compared to HBM1. Add on top that you dont need large PCB's to put all those traditional GDDR5 chips on top, you get the idea.

NokironI'm not bullshitting, why would I do that?

What you have not considered is that the Nordic countries spend a lot more on high-end components than the rest of the world. RX 480 is simply too expensive here for what it brings to the table. If you are lucky you can buy a RX 480 for equivalent ~310$, while Nvidias cards a closer to their MSRP.

Here is the link:
www.nordichardware.se/nyheter/geforce-gtx-1080-saljer-10-ganger-battre-radeon-rx-480.html

The reference RX 480 has been pretty much a failure over here, just because of the pricing.

And AMD just has a bad rep here. Even when the AMD cards had more value (GTX960) people are all like "meh just buy Nvidia".

D007Might want to fact check before you basically attack a topic..lol



So for a guy with limited technological knowledge. What does HBM2 mean, say in potential terms of performance?

higher bandwidth

FrickAnd AMD just has a bad rep here. Even when the AMD cards had more value (GTX960) people are all like "meh just buy Nvidia".

i expected more from one of the most advanced societies in the first world..

JismMuch more bandwidth, lower latency, lower power usage, and more then 4GB of memory (max of 16GB) compared to HBM1. Add on top that you dont need large PCB's to put all those traditional GDDR5 chips on top, you get the idea.

That does not answer the question though, what does much more bandwidth for example mean?
Pushing more data at once..sure, ok, did gpu's run into bandwith limits? are they now unchained so to speak?

evernessinceThat article is an early report and doesn't represent really anything. The GTX 1080 and 1070 have sold more simply because AMD is not quick to your market and Nvidia has had more time.

It is far far far too early to call the RX 480 is a failure just based on a very early report. That's like saying the Nordic countries don't like saving money.

An early report that is correct though. AMD is not overly popular here and that what RX 480 was supposed to change.
But it did not happen, the prices are too high and other options are more viable. This won't change for quite some time.

Im not saying the card itself is a failure, im saying that everything regarding its launch was a failure over here.

UngariOK, but last time I checked there was only 10 Million people in Sweden.
That just doesn't seem to be a lot of sales compared to other areas of the world.

Im sure percentage-wise that we buy a lot more GPUs than the average country. For example, when GTX Titan was released the Nordics were a priority market where the cards was shipped first.

FrickAnd AMD just has a bad rep here. Even when the AMD cards had more value (GTX960) people are all like "meh just buy Nvidia".

Yeah, for some reason.
If you check the most sold GPUs per store, almost everything is just Nvidia. And it is still 970s and 960s that are in the top.

$ReaPeR$i expected more from one of the most advanced societies in the first world..

I don't find any correlation?
AMDs marketing has been non-existant, we have the cards but very few are being sold. Why? Because people only hear about Nvidia.

ZoneDymoThat does not answer the question though, what does much more bandwidth for example mean?
Pushing more data at once..sure, ok, did gpu's run into bandwith limits? are they now unchained so to speak?

www.playtool.com/pages/vramwidth/width.html

GDDR5 is at it limits, with exception of GDDRX5. In a few ways to be honest. Extra power requirements, a larger PCB and a pretty thick memory controller required to use all 8 or even 16 chips at the same time.

This makes a GFX-card in general more expensive, compared to high-end chips with HBM. You dont need to design coolers that cool front and back of the card as well, you only have to focus on both GPU / HBM and VRM.

This also opens doors for AMD to develop a ZEN CPU for either consoles, servermarket or complete SOC's that already have memory on top of it compared to external DDR4 slot for example.

There really is no comparison between GTX 1080 and RX 480. These cards are at the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of performance and should be priced accordingly.
I'm not sure why RX 480 is so expensive in Sweden, that price increase would definitely take away the value of what is supposed to be the low end tier of the GPU market.
It's interesting that you say GTX 1080s are close to the MSRP in Sweden because they certainly have not been in most other areas of the globe. In fact the biggest problem many people have with the 1080 and 1070 is the high price bar set by the Founders Edition and to make matters worse, vendors were taking advantage of the short supply and charging even more.