Tuesday, September 26th 2017

AMD Zen 2 Architecture: Socket AM4, 2019, Code-named "Matisse"

AMD's Zen-based Ryzen and Threadripper have been said by the company as representing the "worst case scenario" of performance for their architecture. This is based on the fact that there are clear areas for improvement that AMD's engineers were keenly aware of even at the moment of Zen's tapping-out; inadvertently, some features or improvements were left on the chopping block due to time and budget constraints. As unfortunate as this is - who wouldn't love to have even more performance on their AMD processors - this also means AMD has a clear starting point in terms of improving performance of their Zen micro-architecture.

Spanish website Informatica Cero have gotten their hands on what they say is an exclusive, real piece of information from inside AMD, which shows the company's CPU roadmap until 2019, bringing some new details with it. On the desktop side, there's mention of AMD's "Pinacle Ridge" as succeeding the current Zen-based "Summit Ridge" Ryzen CPUs in 2018. These leverage the same Summit Ridge architecture, but with a performance uplift; this plays well into those reports of 12 nm being used to manufacture the second-generation Ryzen: it's an AMD tick, so to say. As such, the performance uplift likely comes from increased frequencies at the same power envelope, due to 12 nm's denser manufacturing design.
Another interesting tidbit from this slide is the confirmation of AMD's Zen 2 processors being released in 2019. Based on the company's revised Zen 2 cores (which should see those architectural improvements we were talking about in the beginning of this piece), AMD also seems to be doing away with the ridge-like codenames they've been using in recent times, and taking a more artistic approach. Matisse seems to be the code-name for AMD's Zen 2 architecture, and if you know your painters, it looks like AMD is betting on its Zen 2 cores to further define and influence CPU design. There is no mention of increased Zen threads, however, which likely points towards AMD keeping the same 8-core, 16-thread design as with their current Summit Ridge. This likely plays into AMD's plan for keeping the AM4 socket relevant - while good for consumers who might want to see longevity in their platform, it does prevent AMD from making more radical design changes to their architecture.
Jumping towards its notebook/desktop APU designs, AMD is looking to accompany Matisse with their code-named Picasso APUs for 2019. These should still leverage the company's upcoming Raven Ridge line of APUs, which pair Vega 11 NCUs on the graphical side of the equation and up to 8 Zen threads (4-core CPUs with SMT). However, usage of 12 nm processes across both its Zen CPU cores and Vega 11 NCUs apparently give AMD confidence that they can improve Picasso over Raven Ridge not only in the performance fields, but also the power consumption metrics.

A little bit of lore: AMD seems to be changing their code-names towards painters, and the marriage of Matisse in the CPU and Picasso in the APU space isn't a coincidence. Both artists are considered two of the most important players in the arts space of the beginning of the twentieth century, responsible for both defining and developing the arts. AMD's choice of both of them is, therefore, not a fluke; it's likely more of an artistic take on the company's vision of further defining itself as a key innovative player in the CPU space.
Sources: Informatica Cero, Pablo Picasso @ Wikipedia, Henri Matisse @ Wikipedia
Add your own comment

65 Comments on AMD Zen 2 Architecture: Socket AM4, 2019, Code-named "Matisse"

#51
EarthDog
Ha, lol, I don't see his posts unless I click to view... ;)
Posted on Reply
#52
Lynton
For balance, don't forget the fact that Intel still on an old architecture, e.g. no nvme direct channel into CPU as with Ryzen AM4. All those pci lanes and any devices other than graphics card on Z370 have to share a DMI pcie x4 link from the chipset. Check out the block diagrams
Posted on Reply
#53
EarthDog
Some boards are actually CPU connected for Intel... I think on the X299 platform.. not sure about Z270...
Posted on Reply
#54
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
Vya DomusThing is , I don't want them to start a clock speed race again.
"I thought this was an enthusaists forum."

Someone had to say it. ;)

Personally I find it interesting how ok it has suddenly become with insane TDPs and power draws in consumer chips. Things are moving on the high end as well!
Posted on Reply
#55
Lynton
@EarthDog only HEDT x99/299 as you say on the Intel side connect pcie lanes direct to cpu. nothing on mainstream does this from the blue team
Posted on Reply
#56
EarthDog
Yep.

Now give me a holler when that matters to the masses it hasnt found its way to intel mainstream. We'll chat again in a couple years. :)
Posted on Reply
#57
Vya Domus
R-T-BI think his only real point is that GloFo has a process capable of doing higher clocks than the lpp Zen is using today.

I too believe that the LPP is holding Zen back.
I think Zen is held back by the current node but to what extent it's hard to say. Claiming it will hit X Ghz guaranteed it's nothing more than a supposition.
FrickPersonally I find it interesting how ok it has suddenly become with insane TDPs and power draws in consumer chips. Things are moving on the high end as well!
But you gained a lot of performance in the process too. OK so yeah chips can draw up to 2-3 times more power that the ones from a decade ago but they are also significantly faster. I'm fine with that tradeoff.
Posted on Reply
#58
phanbuey
Vya DomusI think Zen is held back by the current node but to what extent it's hard to say. Claiming it will hit X Ghz guaranteed it's nothing more than a supposition.

But you gained a lot of performance in the process too. OK so yeah chips can draw up to 2-3 times more power that the ones from a decade ago but they are also significantly faster. I'm fine with that tradeoff.
It will be exciting to see Zen's performance with better clocks. It scales so well with Mhz at the moment.
Posted on Reply
#59
TheGuruStud
birdieAs much as people hate Intel, they are currently the only company in the semiconductor industry which can churn out high speed (as in high frequency) 14nm chips, soon to be followed by 10nm.
I wouldn't call 15 mo minimum soon given how 10nm has been playing out for them :p
And really, that's probably many months more generous than reality given that mobile parts will likely not make it till the end of next year.
Posted on Reply
#60
EarthDog
phanbueyIt will be exciting to see Zen's performance with better clocks. It scales so well with Mhz at the moment.
Curious... how can you tell that when it 'overclocks' 400 mhz?
Posted on Reply
#62
phanbuey
EarthDogCurious... how can you tell that when it 'overclocks' 400 mhz?

There is a couple of other articles about it - that the overclock also brings speed bumps to other parts of the chip (not just the core) which helps to lower the cache latency of the chip - and when you combine OC+Memory OC that 400Mhz brings a huge increase in performance. My 1800x went from 1650 cb to 1830 cb going from 3.7 to 3.95 w/ 3200mhz ram and some bios tweaks.

Ryzen seems a bit bottle necked - if refinement of the cache latency and higher clocks can alleviate some of those constraints it will be a really competitive product.
Posted on Reply
#63
EarthDog
Yes, using faster memory helps those CPUs quite a bit in gaming. Part of that result is also it being a few % slower in general (IPC) with more headroom to grow vs Intel chips closer to the performance ceiling already being clocked higher stock and better IPC.

As far as your CB results, that is about right for 300 Mhz and increased memory speeds, maybe low, actually.

EDIT: Depends on the title too... Here is one that just came out at Anand...
www.anandtech.com/show/11857/memory-scaling-on-ryzen-7-with-team-groups-night-hawk-rgb/6

I guess I'm not entirely sure I can buy into that as a blanket statement, especially without a comparison saying its better than others. :)
Posted on Reply
#64
biffzinker
Anyone else heard anything beforehand about the new chipsets?
Their corresponding chipsets, the 400 series, will also become available in March 2018 with X470- or B450-based motherboards to be the first to hit the store shelves. The chipsets are still designed by ASMedia and its orders for the chipsets are expected to grow dramatically starting January 2018.
www.digitimes.com/news/a20170927PD212.html
Posted on Reply
#65
Vya Domus
biffzinkerAnyone else heard anything beforehand about the new chipsets?


www.digitimes.com/news/a20170927PD212.html
Yet another low power optimized node doesn't sound great to me. And I sure as hell hope they don't start doing that chipset after chipset crap Intel is doing.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment
Apr 19th, 2024 01:03 EDT change timezone

New Forum Posts

Popular Reviews

Controversial News Posts