Tuesday, January 31st 2017

Highlights from AMD Earnings Call: Hardened "Zen2" and 7 nm "Vega" by 2019

Following its Q4 and 2017 Annual financial results reveal, AMD CEO Lisa Su, in the company's post-results earnings conference call, made some notable disclosures and guidance. The most interesting - and which shouldn't come as a surprise - is that AMD expects revenues to grow by a staggering 30 percent quarter-over-quarter in Q1-2018, riding on the blockchain (crypto-currency mining) wave. The company's graphics processors offer high efficiency at mining popular crypto-currencies, such as Ethereum, Z-cash, and Bitcoin.

Moving on, Su commented on how her company is coping with the "Meltdown" and "Spectre" CPU vulnerabilities, and reaffirmed that AMD's x86 architectures are slightly safer by design against some of the vulnerabilities; that while the upcoming "Zen+" CPU micro-architecture, which is essentially an optical-shrink of "Zen" to the 12 nanometer process will ship with microcode-level patches against the vulnerabilities, its successor, the "Zen2" micro-architecture, which will be built on the 7 nm process, will feature architecture-level hardening against the vulnerabilities. "Zen 2" tapes out towards the end of 2018, and could see production and marketing in 2019. The other big reveal is the taping out of an optically-shrunk "Vega" architecture implementation on the 7 nm process, taping out within 2018. This isn't "Navi," but possibly a bigger "Vega" chip that leverages 7 nm to have acceptable power/thermals. AMD could tap into the machine-learning market with this silicon first.
Add your own comment

27 Comments on Highlights from AMD Earnings Call: Hardened "Zen2" and 7 nm "Vega" by 2019

#1
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
AMD GPU's are notably slower at Zcash (equihash) and you don't mine bitcoin on GPU's.
Posted on Reply
#2
evernessince
cdawall said:
AMD GPU's are notably slower at Zcash (equihash) and you don't mine bitcoin on GPU's.
You can mine bitcoin on GPUs, it just isn't wise. I don't know why people both playing semantic games when it always comes back to bit them. Also, who cares that AMD is slower at Zcash when they are faster at everything else? Why even bother coming here to post that cherry picked result?

There's a reason Vega 56 sells for more than the 1080 Ti right now, demand.
Posted on Reply
#3
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
evernessince said:
You can mine bitcoin on GPUs, it just isn't wise. I don't know why people both playing semantic games when it always comes back to bit them. Also, who cares that AMD is slower at Zcash when they are faster at everything else? Why even bother coming here to post that cherry picked result?

There's a reason Vega 56 sells for more than the 1080 Ti right now, demand.
AMD Polaris cards aren't faster in "everything else" there are more algorithms they are slower in than faster.

Let's go down the list of common algos

Ethash - > fastest common card is a 1080ti/vega. 1070 beats out the 480/580 and the p104-100 beats out both of those.

Cryptonight - > amd biased

Lyra2rev2 - > nvidia biased

Neoscrypt - > nvidia biased

Equihash - > nvidia biased

Timetravel2 - > nvidia biased

Lyra2h - > nvidia biased

Groestl - > nvidia biased

Keccak - > nvidia biased

Lbry - > nvidia biased

Pascal - > nvidia biased

Also the common price of a 1080ti is $1500 vega 56/64 runs $1200 give or take and you can get fe cards for less than that. The 1080ti also makes more money per day. I have both. I watch values pretty heavily and move to coins that make the most. I have my 1080tis pushing $12-15 a day as long as pool luck doesn't tank on me again. My Vega cards do $8-10.

OH and if you find a bitcoin with a gpu you let me know. As of right now in the realm of feasibility you cannot mining bitcoin with gpus.

evernessince said:
I don't know why people both playing semantic games when it always comes back to bit them.
Heed your own advice.
Posted on Reply
#4
ratirt
I don't think many people care about crypto currency. Actually if you are a slacker then maybe it comes valuable. For me I don't need crypto but i'd buy a card for games mostly and to play with it. With crypto craze it's kinda hard now to get anything for reasonable price. That really bugs me out honestly.
Posted on Reply
#5
medi01
It's funny to see the person who claimed "AMD is saved by mining" in the other thread, to argue AMD cards are not good for mining in this one.
Posted on Reply
#6
bug
Ouch, they're still clinging onto Vega till 2020? Here's hoping they get tile based rendering working. Or that Vega scales better on lower nodes.

Edit: Also, I was right on the money when I said AMD will do what Intel did and offer hardware fixes, but only in Zen2.
Posted on Reply
#7
T1beriu
"Zen 2" tapes out towards the end of 2018
Tape outs happen at least a year before the product becomes publicly available for purchase. Tape outs are needed in advance for engineering samples and qualification, validation and partners to build their products around them (like motherboards). Zen 2 should be already tapped out.
Posted on Reply
#8
Liviu Cojocaru
IF Vega on 7 nm can get boost clock (with lower power draw) similar to Nvidia and will also implement Gddr 6 it could be a competitive option imo
Posted on Reply
#9
Vya Domus
Liviu Cojocaru said:
and will also implement Gddr 6 it could be a competitive option imo
GCN is designed with high memory bandwidth requirements and low latency in mind , pairing Vega with anything else than HBM would be a disaster , you'd nullify every advantage the node shrink would bring performance wise.
Posted on Reply
#11
Xajel
T1beriu said:
Tape outs happen at least a year before the product becomes publicly available for purchase. Tape outs are needed in advance for engineering samples and qualification, validation and partners to build their products around them (like motherboards). Zen 2 should be already tapped out.
Between Tape outs and release is not a minimum of 1 year, it's 9 Months but it can be a year or more if there's some problems in the design or in first production.

The original AMD statement was the Tape out will be in 2H18, meaning it can be from July to December, so if we're lucky to have the earliest assumption, it will be like End of 1Q19 like April, same timeframe as the original Zen & the launch time of Zen+.. if we're not lucky then we might get it at the end of 2019.
Posted on Reply
#12
bug
Vya Domus said:
GCN is designed with high memory bandwidth requirements and low latency in mind , pairing Vega with anything else than HBM would be a disaster , you'd nullify every advantage the node shrink would bring performance wise.
GCN has been with us for exactly 6 years now and most of that time it has been using GDDR5 just fine, so you probably meant to say something else.
Plus, GDDR6 can have the same bandwidth as HBM3 so it wouldn't even be a limiting factor.
Posted on Reply
#13
ratirt
medi01 said:
It's funny to see the person who claimed"AMD is saved by mining" in the other thread, to argue AMD cards are not good for mining in this one.
Zip it really and don't twist sentences and words.
Posted on Reply
#14
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
medi01 said:
It's funny to see the person who claimed "AMD is saved by mining" in the other thread, to argue AMD cards are not good for mining in this one.
Everything is based on ROI. The 470/480/570/580 could do 32mh/s in ethash algorithms for $179-229 up until fourth quarter. Nvidia did not have a competitor for that. Now that price point has more than doubled, that isn't the same story.

Ethereum is a massive network and one of the most well known. Tons of FUD spins around the web telling people amd is better in everything and we have massive sales on both sides.

ratirt said:
I don't think many people care about crypto currency. Actually if you are a slacker then maybe it comes valuable. For me I don't need crypto but i'd buy a card for games mostly and to play with it. With crypto craze it's kinda hard now to get anything for reasonable price. That really bugs me out honestly.
500 billion market cap for just cryptocurrency we won't get into volume of sale for gpus.

"slackers" don't buy Boeing 747's filled with gpus and fly them to Iceland. That's how far crypto has gone this year. This isn't kids using mom's basement for video cards.
Posted on Reply
#15
xkm1948
Now I am OK with miners, but they better not be still around when I upgrade to consumer Volta/Ampree.

Still, mining is one of the stupidest thing ever. Basically wasting computing resources.
Posted on Reply
#16
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
xkm1948 said:
Now I am OK with miners, but they better not be still around when I upgrade to consumer Volta/Ampree.

Still, mining is one of the stupidest thing ever. Basically wasting computing resources.
You should look into some of the coins out there that do positive things.

RNDR coin is aimed at making cloud gaming more doable, there is talk of using blockchain tech to track diamonds (preventing blood diamond trade), there is already stuff out for F@H style coins.
Posted on Reply
#17
xkm1948
cdawall said:
You should look into some of the coins out there that do positive things.

RNDR coin is aimed at making cloud gaming more doable, there is talk of using blockchain tech to track diamonds (preventing blood diamond trade), there is already stuff out for F@H style coins.
Nah, 99% of those coins are being mined by lazy f*ucks who just wanna grab quick cash while wasting energy. That is the majority.

Human nature i guess.
Posted on Reply
#18
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
xkm1948 said:
Nah, 99% of those coins are being mined by lazy f*ucks who just wanna grab quick cash while wasting energy. That is the majority.

Human nature i guess.
So you are saying massive mining farms which is who mines most of the coins are lazy...Must be lazy to maintain 100,000 GPU's then I guess. Who knew.
Posted on Reply
#19
xkm1948
cdawall said:
So you are saying massive mining farms which is who mines most of the coins are lazy...Must be lazy to maintain 100,000 GPU's then I guess. Who knew.
Lazy as not contributing much to the advancennt of human civilization besides wasting computation power for direct personal profit. The same amount of computing power can be used for loads of other stuff that will both advance science as well as profit the owner. However given the chance almost all people would choose direct self profit over anything else.

Don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with that. All living organism does it, every living thing is there only for the survival of themselves.
Posted on Reply
#20
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
xkm1948 said:
Lazy as not contributing much to the advancennt of human civilization besides wasting computation power for direct personal profit. The same amount of computing power can be used for loads of other stuff that will both advance science as well as profit the owner. However given the chance almost all people would choose direct self profit over anything else.

Don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with that. All living organism does it, every living thing is there only for the survival of themselves.
Better go round up most for profit companies out their and shoot them then. That is how the world works and right now advancing blockchain as a whole is showing the largest banking change we have seen since the debit card. As I have said before there is gobs of blockchain technology being used for good things.
Posted on Reply
#21
bug
xkm1948 said:
Lazy as not contributing much to the advancennt of human civilization besides wasting computation power for direct personal profit. The same amount of computing power can be used for loads of other stuff that will both advance science as well as profit the owner. However given the chance almost all people would choose direct self profit over anything else.

Don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with that. All living organism does it, every living thing is there only for the survival of themselves.
Many things we learn about in history classes started with someone knowing better what individuals should do. Just sayin'.

And here's proof that not all miners are selfish bastards:
https://venturebeat.com/2017/12/27/internet-archive-gets-1-million-donation-from-philanthropic-bitcoin-pineapple-fund/
https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-charity-sends-free-software-foundation-1-million-donation/
Posted on Reply
#22
ratirt
cdawall said:
Everything is based on ROI. The 470/480/570/580 could do 32mh/s in ethash algorithms for $179-229 up until fourth quarter. Nvidia did not have a competitor for that. Now that price point has more than doubled, that isn't the same story.

Ethereum is a massive network and one of the most well known. Tons of FUD spins around the web telling people amd is better in everything and we have massive sales on both sides.



500 billion market cap for just cryptocurrency we won't get into volume of sale for gpus.

"slackers" don't buy Boeing 747's filled with gpus and fly them to Iceland. That's how far crypto has gone this year. This isn't kids using mom's basement for video cards.
I'm talking people. I know this market has grown exponentially but it's not like one person buys 1 card. They go with 10's and up. They don't buy Boeing 747 is not people but transportation companies. :) why "slacker" they buy 30 cards and rig it all up to get cash instead of a decent job :) And yeah most of them are in mom's basement :) They just want to grab easy cash and this doesn't exist. I bet that this crypto is really periodical not long term even if it does hold longer than I've anticipated. I can wait and see how it goes. I really don't mind.

cdawall said:
So you are saying massive mining farms which is who mines most of the coins are lazy...Must be lazy to maintain 100,000 GPU's then I guess. Who knew.
Isn't that the core of lazy? Let somebody or something (common now-days) do it for you while you gobble tons of burgers and ribs sitting in the patio doing nothing getting your ass grow faster than greatest crypto mining rig? Maintain the rig? You don't need to maintain anything use a bot that will do it for you. Just get rid of broken equipment and replace it done. You can even outsource it if you want. What year you live in bro?
Posted on Reply
#23
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
I would bet you money there are far less mom's basement people then this "gamer elite" seem to think.

But let's do some quick math at msrp 30 580's is $6900 just in graphics cards, 30 1070's is $12000 just in graphics cards. Most of mom's basement kids don't have 8-15 thousand dollars just sitting there. Just put some perspective in that.

And the Boeing comment matches the news story that hit here of investors renting Boeing 747's to pick up gpus. That isn't lazy.

Your description of lazy apparently is everyone in any kind of supervision roll though. I take it you are a low level employee who works and gets mad the guys above him in your eyes don't?
Posted on Reply
#24
vega22
cdawall said:
I would bet you money there are far less mom's basement people then this "gamer elite" seem to think.

But let's do some quick math at msrp 30 580's is $6900 just in graphics cards, 30 1070's is $12000 just in graphics cards. Most of mom's basement kids don't have 8-15 thousand dollars just sitting there. Just put some perspective in that.

And the Boeing comment matches the news story that hit here of investors renting Boeing 747's to pick up gpus. That isn't lazy.

Your description of lazy apparently is everyone in any kind of supervision roll though. I take it you are a low level employee who works and gets mad the guys above him in your eyes don't?
depends on when they got in on bitcoin tbh :lol:

but to return to an earlier point you made. most are optimised for nv cards as they have more cards out in the wild. they have lead the market share for a few years and as such the demand to make the most of the available hardware trumps any need to optimise them for the better hardware.
Posted on Reply
#25
ratirt
cdawall said:
I would bet you money there are far less mom's basement people then this "gamer elite" seem to think.

But let's do some quick math at msrp 30 580's is $6900 just in graphics cards, 30 1070's is $12000 just in graphics cards. Most of mom's basement kids don't have 8-15 thousand dollars just sitting there. Just put some perspective in that.

And the Boeing comment matches the news story that hit here of investors renting Boeing 747's to pick up gpus. That isn't lazy.

Your description of lazy apparently is everyone in any kind of supervision roll though. I take it you are a low level employee who works and gets mad the guys above him in your eyes don't?
You don't get it do you? People are lazy. They want everything to be done for them. That's they way it is. renting a Boeing is an effort not a description that people are active.
They have really rented a Boeing to get the gpu's? Is there an article about it? This actually shows how lazy people are. They make such an effort just to do nothing :)
Amazing :)
On the other hand it's investors. If they can get easy cash they will and with the resources they got it's still profitable. It's like with 5 cards don't even bother but with 50 you are golden for some time. Then you will need 100 to make it profitable and so on. you also need some different perspective in my opinion.

Your last comment wasn't nice you know. It would seem that aggression comes from you since you're losing arguments :) I pity people like you who think they know all. you talk about perspective but yours is narrow. Like looking through binoculars. You can see far but you don't see it all.
Nice math btw :)
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment