Tuesday, June 12th 2018

Sony Closely Associated with AMD "Navi" Development

AMD monetizes its GPU IP not just with discrete graphics cards and integrated graphics in its PC processors, but also by selling semi-custom SoCs for most modern game consoles, such as the Xbox One and PlayStation 4, with some of the newer 4K UHD-capable models such as the PlayStation 4 Pro and Xbox One X even leveraging newer graphics architectures by the company, such as "Polaris." 2020 could see the roll out of next-generation gaming consoles, which are more purpose-built for 4K UHD gaming, with visual fidelity matching gaming PCs, and so console manufacturers are looking for a lean and powerful new GPU IP. Sony seems to have made up its mind of sticking with AMD.

AMD will supply a semi-custom SoC to Sony for its next major console, "PlayStation 5." This chip will feature a graphics processor based on the "Navi" architecture, which succeeds "Vega." 2020 could also be the year when the 7 nm silicon fabrication process achieves some maturity and makes up most of the bulk ASIC production nodes. According to Tweaktown, Sony is closely working with AMD for the development of the "Navi" architecture itself, so versions of it are efficient enough to be deployed in console SoCs that are built to a cost. The design goal will be to enable 4K @ 60 Hz gaming, as 4K televisions will have proliferated a lot by 2020.
Source: TweakTown
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47 Comments on Sony Closely Associated with AMD "Navi" Development

#1
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Which likely means a bias towards Vulkan. I don't know how I feel about that because the bulk of Windows games are still Direct3D.
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#2
destroyah3034
FordGT90Concept said:
Which likely means a bias towards Vulkan. I don't know how I feel about that because the bulk of Windows games are still Direct3D.
Why? Vulcan based games seem to run better than Direct3d anyways, when properly tuned by the developers, with better .1 and 1% lows when compared to each other. It also takes out the Physx monopoly from the equation and benefits both gpu manufacturers and consumers.
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#3
Prima.Vera
I hope they will NOT advertise PS5 as a 4K gaming machine, because except crappy indie games, you cannot play anything in 4K@60fps with that GPU, common! Or they are going to do the whole 1080p@30fps thingy again?!?!?
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#4
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
destroyah3034 said:
It also takes out the Physx monopoly from the equation and benefits both gpu manufacturers and consumers.
If developers use PhysX on PlayStation, it runs on the CPU cores. PhsyX hardware acceleration runs exclusively on CUDA which AMD doesn't have. They know this when choosing AMD hardware.

Prima.Vera said:
I hope they will NOT advertise PS5 as a 4K gaming machine, because except crappy indie games, you cannot play anything in 4K@60fps with that GPU, common! Or they are going to do the whole 1080p@30fps thingy again?!?!?
If it does have 6144 shaders as anticipated, it should be able to reach 4K at 60 fps.
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#5
Power Slave
Congrats to AMD for getting their Navi chip onto PS5!

Now Freesync on the new Samsung 4K TV's that are coming out make sense for a PS5 console gamer. Smart move by Sony going with AMD to provide the best possible gaming experience by taking advantage of the hardware's standard VESA Freesync capabilities that other GPU's lack.
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#6
Xzibit
This is old news. I think the first one to report it was Charlie from SemiAccurate back in April when new PS5 Dev Kits were making the rounds. Given its E3 well its news again minus the SemiAccurate paywall for most of the info.
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#7
happita
FordGT90Concept said:


If it does have 6144 shaders as anticipated, it should be able to reach 4K at 60 fps.
You might be right, but most people underestimate how taxing 4K is when comparing to 1080p. I'm actually surprised at the library X Box One X has with some of it's upcoming games claiming to support 4K.

Next gen consoles should be able to pull it off by 2020. If not, I'll be disappointed only because I know that the bar is raised every time a new wave of consoles comes out. But then again, we PC gamers are always ahead of the hardware curve ;)
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#8
silapakorn
Prima.Vera said:
I hope they will NOT advertise PS5 as a 4K gaming machine, because except crappy indie games, you cannot play anything in 4K@60fps with that GPU, common! Or they are going to do the whole 1080p@30fps thingy again?!?!?
I have a lot of friends who are console gamers, surprisingly most of them are OK with 30fps, some even can't differentiate between 30 and 60 as they are playing on modern LED TVs that have motion interpolation feature.
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#9
Prima.Vera
silapakorn said:
I have a lot of friends who are console gamers, surprisingly most of them are OK with 30fps, some even can't differentiate between 30 and 60 as they are playing on modern LED TVs that have motion interpolation feature.
Isn't this "feature" creating a lot of imput lag?
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#10
Vya Domus
destroyah3034 said:
It also takes out the Physx monopoly from the equation and benefits both gpu manufacturers and consumers.
Physx in rarely used if not at all , and when it is it's on the PC.

silapakorn said:
I have a lot of friends who are console gamers, surprisingly most of them are OK with 30fps, some even can't differentiate between 30 and 60 as they are playing on modern LED TVs that have motion interpolation feature.
Most TVs if not all of them disable that feature when they receive an HDMI signal.
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#11
dj-electric
4 new consoles within 10 years. That's rich. :laugh:
Stop funding this 80s trend of closed machines with shitty closed OSs already...
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#12
silapakorn
Vya Domus said:

Most TVs if not all of them disable that feature when they receive an HDMI signal.
Definitely not all. My Samsung 46" LED TV can use this 'motion plus' feature on every HDMI channel.

To disable it, you have to turn it off manually, or simply select 'game mode', which will disable it by default, to reduce input lag.
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#13
Vayra86
Vya Domus said:
Physx in rarely used if not at all , and when it is it's on the PC.



Most TVs if not all of them disable that feature when they receive an HDMI signal.
In fact CPU & GPU accelerated PhysX are supported in a significant percentage of games & engines and there has always been PhysX support for consoles, too. Its not the rare unicorn people tend to think it is.

dj-electric said:
4 new consoles within 10 years. That's rich. :laugh:
Stop funding this 80s trend of closed machines with shitty closed OSs already...
Indeed. This is getting hilarious. 'Here, buy our new console on a bi-yearly basis, with paid online, closed ecosystem & vendor lock-in + overpriced games'. And people do it... At least graphics are not stagnating anymore like they did during the PS3 days.
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#14
las
Prima.Vera said:
I hope they will NOT advertise PS5 as a 4K gaming machine, because except crappy indie games, you cannot play anything in 4K@60fps with that GPU, common! Or they are going to do the whole 1080p@30fps thingy again?!?!?
Console games are much better optimized than PC games, especially exclusives, which is the only thing I play on console.
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#15
Readlight
All you can get from console is anger, its just money stealing boxs.
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#16
Vya Domus
Vayra86 said:
In fact CPU & GPU accelerated PhysX are supported in a significant percentage of games & engines and there has always been PhysX support for consoles, too. Its not the rare unicorn people tend to think it is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support

List of all games I'd say it's a rare unicorn indeed, notice how few games support it past 2014-2015.

I can ensure you Physx has been left mostly untouched on consoles for two reasons : firstly, Physx went open source rather late in 2015 and secondly, no sane developer would waste the already sparse CPU cycles for something like this.
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#17
Vayra86
Vya Domus said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support

List of all games I'd say it's a rare unicorn indeed, notice how few games support it past 2014-2015.

I can ensure you Physx has been left mostly untouched on consoles for two reasons : firstly, Physx went open source rather late in 2015 and secondly, no sane developer would waste the already sparse CPU cycles for something like this.
Suffice to say that list is not complete, but still, Fallout 4 used it for example, but then again that runs like crap too. Either way, PhysX on consoles dóes happen contrary to what you stated.
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#18
Vya Domus
Vayra86 said:
Either way, PhysX on consoles dóes happen contrary to what you stated.
Which ? I am really curios as I am unaware of any title. There are APIs for PS4/Xbox Ones but no one is using them even if the respective game on the PC does include it. Physx on console would be suicide in terms of performance.
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#19
altcapwn
dj-electric said:
4 new consoles within 10 years. That's rich. :laugh:
Stop funding this 80s trend of closed machines with shitty closed OSs already...
Yes, it's a lot, but I was wondering if I should buy a new gaming PC or a PS4. I did buy a ps4 and I didn't regret because for the same price of a PC GPU, I got a complete system.

My friend had a choice, should he buy a PS4 Pro or a PC. He bought a PS4 pro because for the same price of a GPU that could run 4K @ 30fps, he got a complete system.

Currently, consoles are a good choice because there's a lot of title that runs on it, good exclusivity (for ps4 at least) and great price compared to overpriced PC components because of mining craze.

PC is still the master race in my heart, but right now, you gotta spend alot to join the race so as of gaming, I tend to advice to buy a PS4 instead as it still has some good times ahead.
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#20
Naito
Im kind of more interested in what CPU architecture they're going to be using. Going from Jaguar to Zen should help boost things considerably. Not too much to hope for Zen+? Maybe even Zen 2? Perhaps being only 2/3 years out means it's already locked in and they've settled with first gen Zen? Can we expect to see more custom implementations?
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#21
dj-electric
altcapwn said:
PC is still the master race in my heart, but right now, you gotta spend alot to join the race so as of gaming, I tend to advice to buy a PS4 instead as it still has some good times ahead.
Hardware cost is what, 10% of what you would spend on the entire experience in 3 years of use?
Classic cost calc mistake.
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#22
altcapwn
dj-electric said:
Hardware cost is what, 10% of what you would spend on the entire experience in 3 years of use?
Classic cost calc mistake.
I paid my ps4 400$. It's now 5 years old, still has about 2 years ahead, I think it was a decent investment for the price I paid back then. I'm not a benchmark whore so I don't really care of the system capability as long as it can run good and beautiful game.

But you're right if we're speaking of buying a console today; the PS4 has maybe 2 - 3 years left, maybe it's not the right time right now to buy one, except if it's a used one.
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#23
Naito
dj-electric said:
Hardware cost is what, 10% of what you would spend on the entire experience in 3 years of use?
Classic cost calc mistake.
He has a point though. For the cost of roughly what you'd for an upper mid-range GPU you'll get an entire system capable of running up to 4K. A system that is pretty guaranteed to run any game released on the platform. And with the way they're going with the architecture (like we've seen with mid-gen refreshs; XOX and PS4P) and backwards compatibility, you'd only need to spend that amount once every 3 to 5 years and still play the previous library. Much cheaper than PC, as far as gaming is concerned. Obviously there are many other factors, but logically speaking you can't just immediately discount consoles as an option.
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#24
dj-electric
altcapwn said:
I paid my ps4 400$. It's now 5 years old, still has about 2 years ahead, I think it was a decent investment for the price I paid back still. I'm not a benchmark whore so I don't really care of the system capability as long as it can run good and beautiful game.
whooosh...

I was talking about payment for services and games.
As a PC gamer, you don't pay those 150$ for 3 years of online play, and if you buy games on a regular basis, add a few more hundreds to that.

Paying only 400-500$ initially on the machine gives the illusion of saving money.
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#25
altcapwn
dj-electric said:
whooosh...

I was talking about payment for services and games.
As a PC gamer, you don't pay those 150$ for 3 years of online play, and if you buy games on a regular basis, add a few more hundreds to that.
God damn, I just realised I've been crooked...

For real tho, you make a good point here, I totally forgot the price of PSN and the higher price of the games. In my case, I buy a month or two if I want to play some games online but it rarely happen and you can buy used game if you don't wanna play full price for a game. Might be a better choice for casual?
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