Friday, June 22nd 2018

NVIDIA's Next Gen GPU Launch Held Back to Drain Excess, Costly Built-up Inventory?

We've previously touched upon whether or not NVIDIA should launch their 1100 or 2000 series of graphics cards ahead of any new product from AMD. At the time, I wrote that I only saw benefits to that approach: earlier time to market -> satisfaction of upgrade itches and entrenchment as the only latest-gen manufacturer -> raised costs over lack of competition -> ability to respond by lowering prices after achieving a war-chest of profits. However, reports of a costly NVIDIA mistake in overestimating demand for its Pascal GPUs does lend some other shades to the whole equation.

Write-offs in inventory are costly (just ask Microsoft), and apparently, NVIDIA has found itself in a miscalculating demeanor: overestimating gamers' and miners' demand for their graphics cards. When it comes to gamers, NVIDIA's Pascal graphics cards have been available in the market for two years now - it's relatively safe to say that the majority of gamers who needed higher-performance graphics cards have already taken the plunge. As to miners, the cryptocurrency market contraction (and other factors) has led to a taper-out of graphics card demand for this particular workload. The result? NVIDIA's demand overestimation has led, according to Seeking Alpha, to a "top three" Taiwan OEM returning 300,000 GPUs to NVIDIA, and "aggressively" increased GDDR5 buying orders from the company, suggesting an excess stock of GPUs that need to be made into boards.
With no competition on the horizon from AMD, it makes sense that NVIDIA would give the market time to assimilate their excess graphics cards. A good solution for excess inventory would be price-cuts, but the absence of competition brings that to a halt: NVIDIA's solutions are selling well in the face of current AMD products in the market, and as such, there is no need to artificially increase demand - and lower ASP in the meantime. Should some sort of pressure be applied, NVIDIA can lower MSRP at a snap of its proverbial fingers.
Of course, this begs the question of what exactly will NVIDIA do with its R&D on other graphics product generations that are falling further and further into the future. Volta never saw the light of day in consumer graphics card products, and we're already talking about the launch of a Turing or Ampere architecture from the company - hoping it would be released in Q3 of this year. There is R&D investment that will lose its impact and chance to generate the revenue expected at its inception. Sure, revenue keeps coming in from older generation hardware - but these delays allow the competition to try and leapfrog, performance and technology-wise, the interim NVIDIA architectures that haven't been released to market, setting their sights on future releases. We're left with an NVIDIA that only partially capitalized their Volta R&D in the pro and server segment, for example, and wasted funds that could be better spent elsewhere. But opportunity cost is part of this business, right?
Sources: Seeking Alpha, via TechSpot
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70 Comments on NVIDIA's Next Gen GPU Launch Held Back to Drain Excess, Costly Built-up Inventory?

#27
Fluffmeister
scevismGreedy Fail.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway. :clap:
Posted on Reply
#28
RH92
ppnWhen the crypto blows, there will be 5 million cards flooding the marked, not just 0.3. so my guess is 1080ti at 199$ is acceptable. if mined with 3 month remaining warranty 99$.
You can always dream i guess .... I mean seriously that won't happen for many reasons . First of all crypto will never blow , even if Ethereum blows peoples have many other coins to mine and when one of those coins gains popularity is the same story all over again . Secondly you wont see 1080ti at this price because peoples are not stupid and most important Nvidia cards have always good resale value , most likely Next Gen xx70 will bring 1080Ti performance for around 400 - 500$ so expect used 1080Ti's around this pricetag .
Posted on Reply
#29
Casecutter
TotallyIt wouldn't work because oems wouldn't pay or charge what Nvidia wants.
I'd agree OEM's HP, Dell, Lenovo I'd see wanting say GP107 based cards (GTX 1050) or if Nvidia has a 'boat load' of gp106 I could see them gelding those further as say a GTX 1055Ti for OEM's, but do they have such an opportunity as wouldn't such chip's already "gelded, assigned the variant ID' and packaged before going to a AIB? These are not 'binned' or un-assigned holdbacks... these left Nvidia as a marked chip.

As to the gp104 those are only something Alien brand, Asus ROG, or boutique builders could move, and those don't have near the volume.
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#31
Gasaraki
Man you people need to think with your brains and not this one person writing this article and then believing what he's saying. 3 top vendors sending back "300,000" "GPUs". Why? We just came out of a low stock point where prices are finally stabilizing but this guy is saying that there's an overstock? OK...

So now there's no demand when there was so much pent up demand?
So now we are suddenly over supplied when we were under supplied just last month?
Why would the vendors just not sell the cards? Makes no sense.

The 1180 is coming out at end of July so...
Posted on Reply
#32
RejZoR
ppnWhen the crypto blows, there will be 5 million cards flooding the marked, not just 0.3. so my guess is 1080ti at 199$ is acceptable. if mined with 3 month remaining warranty 99$.
Everyone just thinks they'll get last gen top of the line for a bag of peanuts when some mining nonsense ends. Riiiight...
Posted on Reply
#33
Casecutter
Gasaraki3 top vendors sending back "300,000" "GPUs".
according to Seeking Alpha, to a "top three" Taiwan OEM returning 300,000 GPUs to NVIDIA, and "aggressively" increased GDDR5 buying orders from the company

I took it as just "one" of the top 3 vendors sent back 30K...
We haven't heard if others are trying to juggle their inventories. This would indicate that particular AIB couldn't A) get enough memory to build them into cards; or B) felt they wouldn't burn through them fast enough without discounting, and that was something Nvidia couldn't acquiesce; while C) some mix in the middle.

Nvidia figures they can sell them fairly quickly as they are better positioned to 'strong-arm' enough GDDR fast and move them to other AIB's. Sure they could've helped with Rebates, but probably didn't want to upset other AIB's who have parts that wouldn't move if 'X' company is getting helped. So buying them back securing memory and then spreading them across all AIB's who would like to partake makes it more fair. And, Nvidia can manage allotment and better control the pricing, even if it comes to rebates they are equally disappeared for those that participate.
Posted on Reply
#34
Eric3988
Once again AMD needs to step up and light a fire under Nvidia's butts so we can get those precious next gen GPUs in our hands. I'm happy with my Vega 56 but would of really liked if it pushed the envelope more.
Posted on Reply
#35
Patriot
GasarakiPeople need to stop reporting from the one article. That article is blatantly trying to lower nVidia stocks and at the very end they disclose that they have short stock on nvidia. So they are trying to lower nvidia stock so so they can make money.
seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem?page=3

Maybe, or they are saying they believe so strongly they are shorting it themselves.
But a valid point to bring up non-the-less.

SA seems to also be giving multiple viewpoints on this topic.
seekingalpha.com/article/4182761-another-reason-hedge-nvidia

They have also called out those shorting companies like Unifi in the past.
Posted on Reply
#36
goodeedidid
Well just give me few 1080s if you don't need them Nvidia :)

I won't refuse
Posted on Reply
#37
Xzibit
goodeedididWell just give me few 1080s if you don't need them Nvidia :)

I won't refuse
The more you buy the more you save

Posted on Reply
#38
stimpy88
So it's our fault (the gamers) that we are not getting new cards.

We are not rich enough to be buying the cards the miners have left for us, at over MSRP.

I'm so happy that we have nVidias "love" to keep us warm, while we wait.
Posted on Reply
#39
Basard
xorbeThey spend it as fast as they make it, and get addicted to it so fast that they assume it'll be the level of profit for all following quarters.
Sucks to be them, I have actually been shopping at Best Buy lately. 1070 FE for $400 a few weeks ago, and I just gotta EVGA 1080 there for $570 (which kinda sucks, but I wanted it for the weekend).
Posted on Reply
#40
efikkan
PapahyooieWhy don't they just release the next generation, and rebrand these chips as "GT" 11 series cards? They do that kind of thing all the time. It's just OEM. Let's be real here, nobody buying OEM will know the difference, and does it really matter what number is printed on it?
Nvidia is about to replace retail cards of GTX 1070, GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti with "consumer Volta", which doesn't even overlap with the machines with OEM cards, so it doesn't matter at all. OEMs have slow upgrade cycles anyway, take one example, Dell just refreshed their Optiplex line, 7 months after Coffee Lake, and they're still offering the old one.

If an OEM returns 300.000 graphics cards, it's because they no longer sell machines with these cards, which means they are older cards (Maxwell and Kepler).

And contrary to what is implied in the article, this has nothing to do with mining.
Posted on Reply
#41
Fluffmeister
Eric3988Once again AMD needs to step up and light a fire under Nvidia's butts so we can get those precious next gen GPUs in our hands. I'm happy with my Vega 56 but would of really liked if it pushed the envelope more.
Yeah Vega 56 @ $399 is decent, but sadly that boat sailed, it certainly didn't set the market alight despite the ridiculous hype. The lack of competiton has been pathetic, it was so late to market i thought it must be epic, no sorry epyc!

I'm sure it's a fine card, but damn turn up on time.
Posted on Reply
#42
KevinCobley
No chance of any new cards this year, none of the usual "tape out" reports, notifications in Futuremark, or "shipping documentation".
Not a single leak from any of the chip makers, OEM card makers, these are companies with many hundreds of employees they aren't the KGB or CIA.
The entire rumour market is based on people's fantasies, when a new product is forthcoming we will first see it in a Nvidia roadmap,
Jensen is a human headline, can't help himself when he has a new product forthcoming.
The next-gen card will be April-June 2019, Nvidia has slowed development, they have zero competition.
and are waiting for some momentum from AMD or INTEL.
The next sign of a new card will be big discounts on last gen cards, the GTX1080 dropping to $499USD, then to $450USD.
These price reductions will occur pre Christmas 2018 at $499USD to allow sellout of old stock at the Christmas binge,
then in February card prices make the final fall to $450USD when the consumer will know new cards are coming.
Posted on Reply
#43
lewis007
I'm sure the Nvidia execs will find solace while they cuddle up to their sacks of cash.:pimp::pimp:
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#44
geon2k2
if they really want to close the deal, they should put that r&d to good use and release a 1080 performance level at 1050 price level.
Posted on Reply
#45
efikkan
KevinCobleyNo chance of any new cards this year, none of the usual "tape out" reports, notifications in Futuremark, or "shipping documentation".
Tape out of "GV102" and "GV104" was before last summer. The new cards are coming, returning OEM cards should have nothing to do with that.
Posted on Reply
#46
ppn
I dont understand what GV102 tape out was there, the earliest rumor dates 2016.8.
KevinCobley...
The next sign of a new card will be big discounts on last gen cards, the GTX1080 dropping to $499USD, then to $450USD.
....
Well they are kind of dropping to 479 499 range right now with game included.

But expecting the 1160 to be the equal of 1070/80 that means it has to go down to 299$ before it makes sense..
Posted on Reply
#47
jabbadap
ppnI dont understand what GV102 tape out was there, the earliest rumor dates 2016.8.

Well they are kind of dropping to 479 499 range right now with game included.

But expecting the 1160 to be the equal of 1070/80 that means it has to go down to 299$ before it makes sense..
xx60s comes usually about 2-4 months after xx80s, so there's no need to go $299 before that. Most likely nvidia will just EOL those right after 1180 release anyway. But yeah remembering pascal release, there were excess stock of gtx980tis remaining, which were priced the same or less than gtx1070.
Posted on Reply
#48
cadaveca
My name is Dave
ONe of the top three OEMs returns GPUs to NVIdia… this OEM is most likely ASUS. So, ASUS returns GPUs to NVidia, and is trying to buy as much ram as possible to make cards with the GPUs they have kept...

How does this really have ANYTHING to do with NVidia? I mean, other than that they have to make a refund and have the GPUs sitting in a warehouse. Also, from what is said, it's bare GPUs and not complete cards, or the memory bit would not have been mentioned as its not relevant...
Posted on Reply
#49
efikkan
I just want to point out that Asus is not a major OEM, they mostly sell retail boards. Major OEMs include (but not limited to) Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc.
Posted on Reply
#50
las
7nm please. Not some half-baked 12nm crap.
Posted on Reply
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