rtwjunkieThey need to eat.

This: when the middle class grows, it's need for agricultural products (especially meat) grows with it. USA could fill that need. China is responding to US tariffs by putting tariffs on the one thing they're going to feel the most. Should put into context the relationship US and China has: luxury goods versus necessities.

Dave65VERY VERY well said:clap::clap:



Had Obama done what Trump has done you right wingers would have busted a vessel to get him out of office..Comrade!

Obama couldn't done what Trump did: 4.1% GDP growth, thousands new jobs in industry sector. Obama, as well as many people with "common sense" mocked Trump, while that "Con Artist" delivered.

www.businessinsider.com/obama-bashes-trumps-jobs-proposal-politics-election-campaign-2016-6

fortune.com/2018/07/27/us-gdp-growth-trump/

www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-employment/u-s-job-openings-hover-at-record-highs-in-june-idUSKBN1KS1S5

That was because of the repatriation of over a trillion dollars in corporate money sitting overseas that accumulated since the last corporate tax holiday (under GWB): a temporary surge. It was also caused by economic activity to preempt the tariffs. That surge is abruptly ending because of the trade war. Trump was elected to do both (level the playing field with trade partners and repatriate funds). Now he has a less than a year to get a "good deal" with them (including China). The longer these tariffs drag on, the more harm they do.

Here, this sums up American Politics:
Link:

TheGuruStudThe term you're looking for is fascist/authoritarian state.
The US is already fascist and mostly authoritarian from both parties as they are the limbs of the elite. It's just selectively enforced, but it's only a matter of time. The laws are already in place to remove the so-called freedom.

Wow, finally someone here gets it....it's both hilarious and disappointing when I witness conservatives thinking liberals are so different and vice versa...the worst is when conservatives think anyone that criticizes trump is automatically liberal or vice versa as if the entire spectrum of political thought only exists in the form of conservative vs. liberal...in reality and with respect to the entire spectrum of political thought, American Conservatives and liberals are both basically centrists with one leaning a millimeter to the right and the other leaning a millimeter to the left....Republicans and Democrats are in effect two wings of the SAME, PRO-Corporate, PRO-State, Pro-Elite party....they differ on about 5% of these issues, namely petty social issues that don't have that much effect on day to day life (though I do completely disagree with the tendency of conservatives to want to control the personal actions of individuals even when those actions have absolutely no effect on anyone else, including those conservatives e.g. abortion, drug use, sex, etc....I seriously think that anyone who cares about the actions of others when they have no effect on their own life is psychologically ill and/or distrurbed), and agree on 95% of the other issues, namely economic issues which can be boiled down to: The "Economy" being the most important thing in reality and to support the economy at the cost of people, freedom, the environment and basically everything else in existence.

Basically, regardless of who runs and who anyone votes for, Capitalism wins everytime at the polls, and I say that not as an anti-capitalist, but simply as an objective observer. Since its inception, this country was designed to subordinate the will of the people, to the will of the elite, and James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and the rest of the federalist cronies were outright explicit about that, hell, John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court said: "Those who own the country ought to govern it." Alexander Hamilton simply didn’t believe in democracy, which he labeled an American “disease.” He fought—with military force—any model of organizing the American political economy that might promote egalitarian politics. He was an authoritarian, and proud of it. most of Hamilton’s legacy is astonishingly counter-democratic. His central role in founding both the financial infrastructure of Wall Street and a nascent military establishment (which supplanted the colonial system of locally controlled democratic militias) was rooted in his self-appointed crusade to undermine the ability of ordinary Americans to govern themselves.

Or you can look at the literally countless examples of the government supressing (many times violently with murder) any attempt of the people to better their lives, just look at all the incredibly violent (in which the government was the cause of the violence) strikes in the 19th and 20th centuries, which literally earns American Government as the most violent strike breaker of all industrialized countries in all of history. For instance, the general strike in San Francisco of 1934, which developed out of a longshoremen’s strike, led to running battles with the police, National Guardsmen setting up machine gun nests and tanks for strike suppression, and a number of deaths. The massive strikes in the period of 1919-1922, involving more than one million workers in industries like railroads, steel, and mining, were met with enormous violence. One of the most famous is the coal mining wars, which culminated in the Battle for Blair Mountain. It pitted armed and organized miners against a private militia, federal troops, bombing runs by employer-hired aircraft, and some of the first post-war uses of military planes. Hundreds of miners died in the battles. During the Ludlow Massacre, National Guardsmen mounted a machine gun on a train, and mowed down strikers and their families living in tents. During the massive Pullman Strike of 1894, during which Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs was arrested, hundreds of thousands of workers went on strike, and the attorney general carpeted every state from Illinois to California with injunctions and martial law. Federal troops aided local police and private guards to suppress the strike. We can tell similar stories for the suppression of the Great Strike of 1877, which included a general strike in St. Louis; for the strike wave of 1886; for the Lawrence strike of 1912; for the Little Steel Strike, Harland County strikes, the Auto-Lite Strike, the Minneapolis strike, and the textile strikes of the 1930s, and so on. These were workers simply asking for an 8 hour day and some safety precautions, and they were arbitrarily murdered because that would hurt the profit margin of these elites and their corporations...and both Democrats and Republicans have that blood all over their hands. So don't fool yourselves....if you're not in the top 1% of the wealthy, this country and all its politicians couldn't care less about you.


Basically, the comedian bill hicks summed this up years ago:

[Acting as a typical, ignorant American Voter]: "I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs!"
-"No, I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking..."
"HEY, wait a minute...there's one guy holding up both Puppets....!"
"SHUT UP, Go back to sleep America"

INSTG8RYou hope they do. The rest of the world will happily accept their goods and prices regardless of the US stance. China doesn’t “need” America. I don’t see a huge clamouring for American made goods either.

and still with out the USA's buying power your lil country of Noraway and even all of the UK will not save any country the USA goes to trade war with including China, except for Russia who can survive anything and thats why they are about to be our great ally and together a force that none can touch. watch and see because nobody is going to stop this train.:peace:And when this is history I get to say I told you so;)

DRDNAand still with out the USA's buying power your lil country of Noraway and even all of the UK will not save any country the USA goes to trade war with including China, except for Russia who can survive anything and thats why they are about to be our great ally and together a force that none can touch. watch and see because nobody is going to stop this train.:peace:And when this is history I get to say I told you so;)

Did you get your “Id rather be Red than a Democrat” shirt yet comrade?:rolleyes: Norway doesn’t need the US or the EU but you wouldn’t know that Norway has trillions in oil money enough that every citizen get a million and there’d still be billions left over. My free healthcare, 5 weeks paid vacation and my guaranteed pension means I’m doing just fine thanks. I’m also Canadian we don’t have it bad there either. Canada softballed on you on tarrifs. Put lumber and power on the list and Canada could hurt you very badly so beat your chest all you like you’ll soon find yourself very alone if this trade war really comes to blows

INSTG8RDid you get your “Id rather be Red than a Democrat” shirt yet comrade?:rolleyes: Norway doesn’t need the US or the EU but you wouldn’t know that Norway has trillions in oil money enough that every citizen get a million and there’d still be billions left over. My free healthcare, 5 weeks paid vacation and my guaranteed pension means I’m doing just fine thanks. I’m also Canadian we don’t have it bad there either. Canada softballed on you on tarrifs. Put lumber and power on the list and Canada could hurt you very badly so beat your chest all you like you’ll soon find yourself very alone if this trade war really comes to blows

Canada would have no economy with out the USA, now your just being silly.

DRDNACanada would have no economy with out the USA, now your just being silly.

You keep telling yourself that. Your assumed self importance and that attitude is what’s getting you into this trade war mess in the first place. We’ll talk a year from now when these tariffs have tanked your economy, employment and inflation has sky rocketed, that’s if it hasn’t taken your smug self down wth it.

TheinsanegamerNAs opposed to voting in a corrupt war-hungry neo-con, the wife of the man that signed NAFTA, and a frankly unpleasant woman in poor health that blames everybody but herself for her problems after running on a platform of higher taxes and "everyone who doesnt like me is a horrible sub-human".

Not really a hard choice there.

There are US manufacturers left for things like NAND memory and RAM. PCB manufacturing is not the hardest thing to build or automate. If the prices of Chinese made stuff rises too high, PCB manufacturing will start back up in the US to feed demand. That is how an economy works. Europe, who is buddy buddy with Clinton, does this ALL THE TIME. MOST of the world has tariffs against other countries to protect manufacturing in their own country. It is how you compete with countries that pay slave wages to their employees. Given these countries already have tariffs or outright bans on american goods, it only makes sense to tariff them right back until either the manufacturing comes back to the US or the tariffs are dropped.

It's a far sight better then the bank bailouts that democrats thought would save the economy, and lead to 8 years of painfully slow recovery. Credit where credit is due, the economy is growing faster under trump then it ever did under obama.

good f'in luck with manufacturing jobs coming back to america. Consumer will pay high. Companies who do assembly are already closing shop.

DRDNAand still with out the USA's buying power your lil country of Noraway and even all of the UK will not save any country the USA goes to trade war with including China, except for Russia who can survive anything and thats why they are about to be our great ally and together a force that none can touch. watch and see because nobody is going to stop this train.:peace:And when this is history I get to say I told you so;)

INSTG8RDid you get your “Id rather be Red than a Democrat” shirt yet comrade?:rolleyes: Norway doesn’t need the US or the EU but you wouldn’t know that Norway has trillions in oil money enough that every citizen get a million and there’d still be billions left over. My free healthcare, 5 weeks paid vacation and my guaranteed pension means I’m doing just fine thanks. I’m also Canadian we don’t have it bad there either. Canada softballed on you on tarrifs. Put lumber and power on the list and Canada could hurt you very badly so beat your chest all you like you’ll soon find yourself very alone if this trade war really comes to blows

Both of you, come on. You both act like the other has some kind of control over any of this. Nobody should be insulting people over this. :kookoo:

And @INSTG8R its the democrats that are giving their already lefty platform and control over their party to outright socialists. So, yeah, the term “comrade” would apply to them, not Republicans. If that is a jab at Trump, jab away, because he is not Republican. He is an Independant who ran as a Republican because this country simply is not set up for a 3rd party or Independant.

rtwjunkieBoth of you, come on. You both act like the other has some kind of control over any of this. Nobody should be insulting people over this. :kookoo:

And @INSTG8R its the democrats that are giving their already lefty platform and control over their party to outright socialists. So, yeah, the term “comrade” would apply to them, not Republicans. If that is a jab at Trump, jab away, because he is not Republican. He is an Independant who ran as a Republican because this country simply is not set up for a 3rd party or Independant.

Am I making it up? 2 Yahoos at the last trump rally spotted in this oh so tasteful attire...Also socialism is how MOST of the world is successful, it’s America and it’s capitalism/conservatism that’s put you so low on the list of countries in almost everything but incarceration and gun violence...
This shirt sure screams patriotism right? If you can’t see the problem with it I feel sorry for you rtw, I know you’re smarter than that...Don’t worry you can’t hurt my feelings and if you do I can go see my doctor and get them checked for free ;)
t

INSTG8RAm I making it up? 2 Yahoos at the last trump rally spotted in this oh so tasteful attire...Also socialism is how MOST of the world is successful, it’s America and it’s capitalism/conservatism that’s put you so low on the list of countries in almost everything but incarceration and gun violence...
This shirt sure screams patriotism right? If you can’t see the problem with it I feel sorry for you rtw, I know you’re smarter than that...
t

You don’t understand facetiousness do you? It’s done as a joke, a basic F-U to the democrats. What you should learn about the Republicans in the U.S. is that there is not a more anti-commie group of people in the world. That’s your biggest clue that Trump merely co-opted the nomination.

As to Socialism working, Nope, it is not a working sustainable system anywhere. That’s why most of the world doesn’t have it. They have mixed systems that are still draining the coffers of a number of them. Stifle creativity and independence and desire to work hard by not making it worth it to excel? That’s what actual Socialism does. And since when did the U.S. invent capitalism? Come on, get it together. :)

And yes, I am very smart on the U.S. political system, thanks! It’s one of my two fields of expertise. I understand it well. You don’t see me trying to comment on Norway or Canada, do you, my friend? We should stick to what we know, right?

Otherwise we insult people through ignorance or accident. Either way, it breeds hostility, which this world doesn’t need any more of.

INSTG8Rsocialism is how MOST of the world is successful

The only way socialism is successfully implemented ,is if it has capitalism to feed off of. In the absence of a free market ,socialism is about as successful as it is in Venezuela right now ,and has been in the past.

Ima let you finish but...

DRDNAand still with out the USA's buying power your lil country of Noraway and even all of the UK will not save any country the USA goes to trade war with including China, except for Russia who can survive anything and thats why they are about to be our great ally and together a force that none can touch. watch and see because nobody is going to stop this train.:peace:And when this is history I get to say I told you so;)

August‎ ‎8‎, ‎2018: U.S. Sanctions Russia, With More Threatened, for Nerve-Agent Use

INSTG8RPut lumber and power on the list and Canada could hurt you very badly so beat your chest all you like you’ll soon find yourself very alone if this trade war really comes to blows

November‎ ‎2‎, ‎2017‎: U.S. Places Punitive Tariffs on Canadian Lumber Amid Impasse

...this isn't the beginning of the tariffs, just the first of the tech tariffs (other than those that put ZTE out of business momentarily).

jboydgolferThe only way socialism is successfully implemented ,is if it has capitalism to feed off of. In the absence of a free market ,socialism is about as successful as it is in Venezuela right now ,and has been in the past.

Nobody is saying pure socialism works we all know it doesn’t but it definitely provides a better quality of life. Medicaid /Medicare and Social Security are all socialist programs, heck it’s right in the name. Like I said here in Norway I get free healthcare, 5 weeks paid vacation and a guaranteed pension all “socialist” Norway is one of the richest countries per capita and Norwegians have very little to complain about other than high gas prices in a country that’s bread and butter is oil...

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." --Margaret Thatcher

Norway's oil won't last forever (either by supply or by demand); what comes next?


And what does that have to do with electronic tariffs?

FordGT90Concept"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." --Margaret Thatcher

Norway's oil won't last forever either (either by supply or by demand), what comes next?

No arguments there, already seen a lot of ebb and flow in that regard. Heck the state oil company Statoil has rebranded themselves now as Equinor and pushing alternative energy. But they have amassed a huge pile of cash that will last for decades and it’s the reason they’ll never join the EU because they have no intention of ever sharing it.

Most oil companies have large cash reserves but that's mostly to fund expeditions into finding new energy reservoirs. Even the largest oil companies only have 7-10 years of proven oil reserves.

FordGT90ConceptMost oil companies have large cash reserves but that's mostly to fund expeditions into finding new energy reservoirs. Even the largest oil companies only have 7-10 years of proven oil reserves.

No it’s not the oil companies reserves it’s the countries oil fund worth over a trillion dollars it’s where all the countries pensions come from. It’s the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway

"In May 2018 it was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen." That's not going to last long, especially when the oil dries up and Norway has little in the way of alternative industry to fill the gap.


What does this have to do with electronic tariffs anyway?

FordGT90Concept"In May 2018 it was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen." That's not going to last long, especially when the oil dries up and Norway has little in the way of alternative industry to fill the gap.


What does this have to do with electronic tariffs anyway?

Someone picked on Norway like it was small potatoes. They also have a huge fishing industry that a China buys a lot of.

FordGT90ConceptMost oil companies have large cash reserves but that's mostly to fund expeditions into finding new energy reservoirs. Even the largest oil companies only have 7-10 years of proven oil reserves.

I'd say the Saudis, Venezuela, Iraq would like to have a word with you, especially now that tar sands & possibly even methane hydrates supplement traditional oil or coal based energy.

Shhhh, it's a secret. Also, I said companies (Equinor is the only state owned company represented).

FordGT90ConceptShhhh, it's a secret. Also, I said companies (Equinor is the only state owned company represented).

That's true but the point is oil consumption could decline, from traditional sources, in the not so distant future, even after excluding renewable energy potential. Aramco, Venezuelan and Iraqi state oil companies (don't recall names) can and probably will survive the ups & down that private entities have to deal with, especially market forces out of their control. In most cases the subsidies will ensure that these oil rich nations continue to prosper, so long as they diversify or offset their dependence on oil. The likes of BP, Shell, Total, Exxon Mobil don't have that luxury and thus need capital expenditure to continue (long term) profitability.

I realize you're probably saying the same thing, but I'm clarifying my position a bit further.

this thread has got very TOXIC