Trade tariffs on PC components. Nothing more, or brownie points will be awarded.

I want a guesstimate on what the tariffs will do to consumer prices in USA and abroad. I haven't seen anyone do the math yet.

I know looking at parts to replace my dead X58, it's looking like $540 for MSI B450-A Pro, Ryzen 2400G, 2x4 GiB HyperX RAM, LG DVD+-RW, and Windows 10 Pro license. Assuming all of that gets a 25% tariff sans Windows, price jumps up to $640.

My Opinion on this is
USA Sanction's on China = Chinese Retaliation
Result
Global Trade Slowdown and price Hikes
why ?
Global electronics are mainly made in non USA States ie China
so sanctions imposed on china also effect other players ( Trade with china Share the Sanctions)
That means the Supply Chain Cost more to keep going .
Manufacturing Reduces because of sanctions and component cost rise's
World Price's rise for components = Consumer goods price Rise. (world wide)

2011 article by Steve Abb, a 85 year old economist and certified public accountant spells it all. The short version is that China fixed the Yuan to the United States Dollar. They did it again just over a month ago in order to counter the weakening of the Yuan against the Dollar.

Steve AbbOver the years China stated it would gradually increase the value of the Yuan. However, only small changes took place. The result has been a continuing loss of U.S. jobs and factories. It is probable that China will take decisive action only after it observes the U.S. actually establishing tariffs, subsidies, regulations, etc. that offset or exceed the barriers created by China's Unfair Trade Practices. At that time China will vigorously complain and come up with many bogus arguments, employ lobbyists and public relations people. The U.S. has suffered too much and too long and should persevere in these solutions.

China has deliberately kept their Yuan cheap compared to the Dollar in order to make Chinese manufacturing attractive to US companies willing to outsource. By all accounts, it worked:

The tariffs have been a decade in the making. Either USA inflicts punative damages on China for it or China continues to leech jobs from its trade partners (especially USA). EU isn't taking China's side for a reason.

That said, Trump has been throwing tariffs everywhere and at everyone.


This paragraph from Wikipedia sums it up well:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renminbi

WikipediaUntil 2005, the value of the renminbi was pegged to the US dollar. As China pursued its transition from central planning to a market economy, and increased its participation in foreign trade, the renminbi was devalued to increase the competitiveness of Chinese industry. It has previously been claimed that the renminbi's official exchange rate was undervalued by as much as 37.5% against its purchasing power parity.[6] More recently, however, appreciation actions by the Chinese government, as well as quantitative easing measures taken by the American Federal Reserve and other major central banks, have caused the renminbi to be within as little as 8% of its equilibrium value by the second half of 2012.[7] Since 2006, the renminbi exchange rate has been allowed to float in a narrow margin around a fixed base rate determined with reference to a basket of world currencies. The Chinese government has announced that it will gradually increase the flexibility of the exchange rate. As a result of the rapid internationalization of the renminbi, it became the world's 8th most traded currency in 2013,[8] and 5th by 2015.[9]

They also attempt to limit exchanges, forbidding massive shifts in Yuan value (technically not pegged but effectively is):

WikipediaBeginning in January 2010, Chinese and non-Chinese citizens have an annual exchange limit of a maximum of US$50,000. Exchange will only proceed if the applicant appears in person at the relevant bank, and presents their passport or Chinese ID; these deals are being centrally registered. The maximum dollar withdrawal is $10,000 per day, the maximum purchase limit of USD is $500 per day. This stringent management of the currency leads to a bottled-up demand for exchange in both directions. It is viewed as a major tool to keep the currency peg, preventing inflows of 'hot money'.

USA...USA...USA...USA...

It's going to be great just how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs are coming back from China because of this...

I guess US needed to put a tax on goods, similar to that in EU and had to find an excuse to do that. The big bad red China was a nice excuse. Usually what happens with new taxes is that they stay permanently. Politicians promise to remove them if they get elected, they get elected, in the beginning they say that removing the tax is complex and it needs work, then they promise to lower it, then it is permanent and can only go up.

R-T-BYou'd think...



Like anyone with half a brain wants war with Russia....

some people do want war with russia.. lots of money is made my creating a possible war with russia... billions hinges on russia being an "enemy" the industrial military complex needs an "enemy" to justify its very expensive existence.. without an "enemy" it would not be able to rake in the money it does..

the end result of this shit is a very real possibility of a war being started by design or accident.. war is more likely than its ever been in the past..

trog

INSTG8RNobody is saying pure socialism works we all know it doesn’t but it definitely provides a better quality of life. Medicaid /Medicare and Social Security are all socialist programs, heck it’s right in the name. Like I said here in Norway I get free healthcare, 5 weeks paid vacation and a guaranteed pension all “socialist” Norway is one of the richest countries per capita and Norwegians have very little to complain about other than high gas prices in a country that’s bread and butter is oil...

OK , i agree with the fact that aspects of socialism can be attractive in certain situations. but what you said was "socialism is how MOST of the world is successful", which isnt true. The free healthcare part of Norway or Canada is socialism, the High wages are the capitalism part. What the countries you have mentioned have is "democratic socialism" (which is neither democratic, nor socialist, it was labelled with a friendly name to hide its history, like a killer changing their name and moving to hide their nature). For example, Canada is a capitalist country, with socialized medicine. Nordic countries have similar. The high standard of living in Norway, is due to capitalism. Since socialism requires the abolition of the profit incentive. I think its important that people realize that communism is a tried and tested method of failure & death/suffering, Socialism is the "transition" of a free market into communism, since the leap from one ideology to another is deemed as not feasible by communists.

INSTG8RNobody is saying pure socialism works we all know it doesn’t but it definitely provides a better quality of life. Medicaid /Medicare and Social Security are all socialist programs, heck it’s right in the name. Like I said here in Norway I get free healthcare, 5 weeks paid vacation and a guaranteed pension all “socialist” Norway is one of the richest countries per capita and Norwegians have very little to complain about other than high gas prices in a country that’s bread and butter is oil...

the blue is the capitalist part of norway, the red is the Democratic socialist part.( Also, You mention residence in Canada, if i recall correctly, You need to live in Norway for 40 years AFTER the age of 16 to collect that pension,unless im misreading the law ,which is possible).


First, i will say that i respect your opinion.

But the truth is, democratic socialsim isnt democratic, its force. Its no more democratic, than the Peoples REPUBLIC of Korea (N Korea) is a republic. On paper , communism is alluring, but it never has turned out good for the country it is implemented in. I fear people mistake socialism for other forms of capitalism, and attribute success to the wrong ideology, which can only go poorly , especially in a world where the youth seem hell bent on ignoring the factual history of oppression, and starvation of the communist ideology. I dont want to try & convince you or change your mind, nor do i think its my place, but id suggest anyone who thinks socialist aspects or communism are alluring, take the time and look closely into these ideologies, since sooner or later, the wealth eearned in the free market will run out, and all that is left is socialism and starvation, which i dont want for anyone . Nordic countries were wealthy LONG before socialism was implemented, I forget where i read or heard it, but i saw a study that showed, Nordics who moved to the US, enjoyed more success, which doesnt surprise me one bit. socialism will breed a lazy/defeated or complacent youth , with no need to succeed, since no upward mobility exists. Socialism lite is a parasitic , forceful mid ground that may show success , i just hope it stays that way.

i dont wish to argue this ,as ive done it far too many times, i wish you the best, now im gonna drink my coffee :):toast:

trog100some people do want war with russia.. lots of money is made my creating a possible war with russia... billions hinges on russia being an "enemy" the industrial military complex needs an "enemy" to justify its very expensive existence.. without an "enemy" it would not be able to rake in the money it does..

the end result of this shit is a very real possibility of a war being started by design or accident.. war is more likely than its ever been in the past..

trog

Direct war with Russia = MAD. Won't happen. It's the whole reason proxy wars were created.

R0H1TYeah I'm sure the dozen other women feel the same about drumpf, aside from Stormy of course who feared for her life & had to spill the beans on the orange one.
Private entertainment perhaps, unless one prefers golden showers out in the open?

Stormy Daniels oh rly? She from whenever this business occurred to the present to bring this up and way less to fear before the guy was sworn to office, lets call it what it is a smear campaign, she got paid for whatever she did and to remain silent as long as she did and probably got paid more than the settlement bring this up now. She's not a victim, I recognize people like that as opportunistic sleazeballs.

stimpy88USA...USA...USA...USA...

It's going to be great just how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs are coming back from China because of this...

None? Taiwan is far closer.

R-T-BNone?

I think it was a sarcastic comment :toast:

R-T-BNone? Taiwan is far closer.

They don't have the capacity. If there is an exodus they'll only be able to take a fraction.

TotallyThey don't have the capacity. If there is an exodus they'll only be able to take a fraction.

Of course they do. Unless you are going off topic again.

But even for other OT things, fact is USA doesn't have that capacity anymore and it won't come overnight. Other avenues will be pursued first. This whole thing is a pipe dream longing for an era in our country that is long past.

R0H1TI think it was a sarcastic comment :toast:

Nope. I seriously doubt this will bring any meaningful figure home. It may even hurt certain industries.

Oh, you may mean his comment... yeah. Maybe.

TotallyThey don't have the capacity. If there is an exodus they'll only be able to take a fraction.

The way this will pan out IMO is this way ~
US raises taxes -> Chinese exports, mainly(?) electronics become expensive -> US consumption declines, possibly proportionally wrt the hike -> US based companies cut ties to certain China based component makers (assembly?) move part of the production to Vietnam, Taiwan -> not many jobs created in the US, if any.

The same goes for other large manufacturers that have exposure to China, including the ones from SK, Taiwan, EU, Japan etc.

www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/taiwan-odms-pulling-back-production-from-mainland-in-wake-of-us-import-tariffs.246644/#post-3883123

Amonst the many it starts with a few

R-T-BDirect war with Russia = MAD. Won't happen. It's the whole reason proxy wars were created.

you assume there is a degree of sanity at work and maybe even in control.. me i am not so sure.. he he..

america is now a country where even an attempt at making peace with the russians (avoiding war) is seen as treason.. it would seem the lunatics are now running the asylum.. he he..

dont get me wrong here the UK is doing the same and going the same way.. from where i stand insanity rules.. :)

trog

trog100from where i stand insanity rules..

Maybe for a short while it will rule.... Mostly, they just think they rule because they (the insane) are the loudest.

AssimilatorGlad to know I can also add you to the list of "obviously crazy people on TPU".

ROFL, please explain how that is "obviously crazy"... using such terminology only paints you as such. :kookoo:

R0H1TYeah I'm sure the dozen other women feel the same about drumpf, aside from Stormy of course who feared for her life & had to spill the beans on the orange one.
Private entertainment perhaps, unless one prefers golden showers out in the open?

You seem to be conveniently forgetting how Clinton went for those women who her busband boinked, intimidating them and hiring private investigators. I love how people make her out to be some kind of saint when she was anything but. The US would be no better off with her in charge, and mired in just as much of the legal controversy and mess that Trump has brought. And golden showers in the open? What the hell are you talking about?

:p Reminder :toast:

RCoonTrade tariffs on PC components. Nothing more, or brownie points will be awarded.

Brownie Points are not on the sanction list

TheinsanegamerNAs opposed to voting in a corrupt war-hungry neo-con, the wife of the man that signed NAFTA, and a frankly unpleasant woman in poor health that blames everybody but herself for her problems after running on a platform of higher taxes and "everyone who doesnt like me is a horrible sub-human".

Not really a hard choice there.

There are US manufacturers left for things like NAND memory and RAM. PCB manufacturing is not the hardest thing to build or automate. If the prices of Chinese made stuff rises too high, PCB manufacturing will start back up in the US to feed demand. That is how an economy works. Europe, who is buddy buddy with Clinton, does this ALL THE TIME. MOST of the world has tariffs against other countries to protect manufacturing in their own country. It is how you compete with countries that pay slave wages to their employees. Given these countries already have tariffs or outright bans on american goods, it only makes sense to tariff them right back until either the manufacturing comes back to the US or the tariffs are dropped.

It's a far sight better then the bank bailouts that democrats thought would save the economy, and lead to 8 years of painfully slow recovery. Credit where credit is due, the economy is growing faster under trump then it ever did under obama.

THIS. But if you're a rabid never Trumper of any political persuasion with incurable Trump Derangement Syndrome, I'd expect nothing more than that reply to tariff issues. If you want us to continue to get screwed with tariffs keep whining, this is a bump in the road long overdue and bumpier than need be because no other President of any political party bothered to deal with our pathetic trade deficit.

ssdproIt was about family values. 5 kids from 3 different women while the bragging about the various ways he assaults women and peeps on teenage girls.

Versus the woman who is married to and enabled a serial assaulter and rapist who got bj's from a girl practically young enough to be his granddaughter while in the White House? Please.

I'd rather more companies just made stuff in the US it would actually save them more money in the long run. Also stuff will be better quality.

dalekdukesboyTHIS. But if you're a rabid never Trumper of any political persuasion with incurable Trump Derangement Syndrome, I'd expect nothing more than that reply to tariff issues. If you want us to continue to get screwed with tariffs keep whining, this is a bump in the road long overdue and bumpier than need be because no other President of any political party bothered to deal with our pathetic trade deficit.

Ah yes, it's easy to see how the Trumpanzee is dealing with the trade deficit by cutting the largest contributor to it, the military. Oh wait he's not, just like no other president. But keep MAGA-wanking your alternative facts over there.

remixedcatI'd rather more companies just made stuff in the US it would actually save them more money in the long run. Also stuff will be better quality.

I wouldn't say that. Quality ends up about the same no matter what human does it. They were mostly saving money because of the currency floating. Without floating, the cost of shipping and exchange rate ends up not making Chinese manufacturing very attractive any more. Thing is, all of the manufacturing elsewhere has gone away over the last decade. Now there's not much choice without investing millions to start up their own manufacturing elsewhere.

AssimilatorAh yes, it's easy to see how the Trumpanzee is dealing with the trade deficit by cutting the largest contributor to it, the military. Oh wait he's not, just like no other president. But keep MAGA-wanking your alternative facts over there.

Military actually funds the largest manufacturing block in the USA. Every warship is made in the USA (Northrup Grumman, Bath Iron Works) and some cost over a billion each. All of the trucks (Oshkosh, General Dynamics), all of the computers (IBM, Sun, Cray), all of the weapons (Colt, Browning) are made in the USA. Military literally keeps some companies afloat (one of the reasons the A-10 is still in service).

Trade deficit is mostly caused by USA being 71% consumer economy.

FordGT90ConceptI wouldn't say that. Quality ends up about the same no matter what human does it. They were mostly saving money because of the currency floating. Without floating, the cost of shipping and exchange rate ends up not making Chinese manufacturing very attractive any more. Thing is, all of the manufacturing elsewhere has gone away over the last decade. Now there's not much choice without investing millions to start up their own manufacturing elsewhere.


Military actually funds the largest manufacturing block in the USA. Every warship is made in the USA and some cost over a billion each. All of the trucks, all of the computers, all of the weapons are made in the USA. Military literally keeps some companies afloat (one of the reasons the A-10 is still in service).

Trade deficit is mostly caused by USA being 71% consumer economy.

Computers.. Probably where all of cool micron stuff is going, that I can't even get. Like why were joint developing 3DXPoint with Intel.. yet Intel is the only one with consumer products? :\