Friday, March 8th 2019

Microsoft Confirms Latest Windows 10 Update May Decrease Performance in Certain Gaming Scenarios

Microsoft has confirmed that their latest Windows 10 update (KB4482887), which released on march 1st, can actually degrade graphics and mouse performance in some games. As Microsoft themselves put it, "After installing KB4482887, users may notice graphics and mouse performance degradation with desktop gaming when playing certain games (eg: Destiny 2)."

There's no word yet on a definitive listing of games that suffer this performance degradation, but Microsoft is hard at work fixing this for the next Windows release. Until then, users facing graphics and mouse performance degradation can simply uninstall the KB4482887 update.
Source: Windows 10 KB4482887 Update Page and Release Notes
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135 Comments on Microsoft Confirms Latest Windows 10 Update May Decrease Performance in Certain Gaming Scenarios

#28
EntropyZ
Thanks for the link but I can't read it cuz adblocker.
I found this funny for some reason.

Anyway even with all those methods what if the software is constantly loading new data, the MM combined with the hardware I would be using isn't fast enough to adapt. Resulting in performance drops. It's not some magic wand for the software that just plain works like crap though, so I have to get some resources from somewhere don't I?

I was simply stating that the user needs to get their hands dirty in order to get something working as close as intended. Which should be fair game.

If I look at perfmon, while running an application that also depends on loads of APIs. Trust me, it isn't pretty.

There are things Windows simply can't do. That is why it would be awesome if I could just modify it to my own needs to get the most out of it. But I can't because these updates keep breaking something or locking down the things you could do before, for your own good. Or just adding something that just boggles the mind of a user, like why?

The insider program is a nice step, but it is no substitute for open-source. Getting off-track here. I'm just dreaming about things that won't happen as I try to claim what should be in my control, but it isn't.

TL;DR: EZ solution pay for better hardware. Which will still be bogged down by software. Good game messing with the consumer, intentional or not.

Guys where do you direct your hatred, so it may become productive? I need a better outlet. I have more respect for you than this... It's like I need a filter for negative posts as I care too much, cause' all I see is consumers getting rear-ended too much in this decade. This actually kept me awake, when I was about to drop from sleep deprivation.
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#29
jmcslob
This also started after the update...I suppose my 1070ti could be about to die..
No OC's latest drivers...etc...ever since I got 1809 its been one issue after another.
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#30
Basard
Amazing how performance always decreases..... You'd think they would be striving for the opposite.
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#31
OneMoar
There is Always Moar
to the benchmarks boy wonder and yes your 1070TI is dying
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#32
trparky
OneMoar said:
unused ram is wasted ram
Yep, there's a lot of stuff that's stored in memory including disk cache. If you can keep things in RAM, important bits of data and/or potential things that you, the user, might want in RAM instead of having to go back to the much slower hard disk drive or SSD (though an SSD is faster than a hard drive it's still orders of magnitude slower than DRAM). With that being said, Windows will learn over time your usage pattern and keep certain bits of data in disk cache which of course leads to more system RAM usage but it leads to a more responsive system if and when you need that data.
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#33
Zubasa
Let me guess, they fucked up the DPC Latency AGAIN? :banghead:
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#35
ArbitraryAffection
R-T-B said:
Nope. Spectre variant 2 affects both brands.
Yes you are correct but this update only reduces performance in Intel architecture.

edit: also affects Ryzen too apparently
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#36
R-T-B
ArbitraryAffection said:
Yes you are correct but this update only reduces performance in Intel architecture.
Where is that stated?
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#37
ArbitraryAffection
R-T-B said:
Where is that stated?
Okay I was misinformed. apparently this update hurts Zen too, as i have jsut read in the reddit page. I read somewhere else it was Intel only cuzi assumed it was caused by retpoline, which i also learned is not needed on Zen architecture

will edit my post so people aren't misinformed by it
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#38
Tsukiyomi91
seeing folks blaming MS is nothing new when the end user is also partially responsible for leaving everything to auto without bothering changing the settings in their OS.
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#39
Athlonite
I really don't see the point of installing these mitigtion patchs has anyone here or heard of anyone actually been affected by spectre
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#40
HTC
To my understanding, all of these exploits discovered since early last year work because of speculative execution and Intel, AMD and ARM CPUs have speculative execution, with different implementations. This is why Meltdown and Spoiler affect only Intel CPUs but Spectre affects all manufacturers.

Until manufacturers figure out a way to remove speculative execution from their (next gen) CPUs, we're stuck with software mitigations and, in the case of Spoiler, (apparently) that isn't an option. The same is true for existing CPUs. Mitigation measures have a performance impact which varies greatly, depending on which exploit it addresses but the cumulative effect of these mitigations is very noticeable.
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#41
Manu_PT
Athlonite said:
HAHA LOL maybe for older games that only require DX11 or less but try playing a newer AAA game that requires the use of DX12 as for mouse latency I have the same latency in Win7 as I do in Win10 for my Logitech G502 so maybe look at the software you're running for your mouse
Is called DPC latency and it is objectively lower on Windows 7. Has nothing to do with software. Is the OS itself. And I dont care about DX12. 99% of the games have DX11 compability. Also Windows 10 is crap for audio production do to its latency.

Windows 10 is only used by a lot of people because microsoft pushed hard on those auto updates. The OS itself is a mess and doesnt take the best from your hardware. 1809 October update is even worse.
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#42
Tsukiyomi91
at least one can uninstall the update... and not to go thru the lengths of doing a clean install.
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#43
ArbitraryAffection
HTC said:
To my understanding, all of these exploits discovered since early last year work because of speculative execution and Intel, AMD and ARM CPUs have speculative execution, with different implementations. This is why Meltdown and Spoiler affect only Intel CPUs but Spectre affects all manufacturers.

Until manufacturers figure out a way to remove speculative execution from their (next gen) CPUs, we're stuck with software mitigations and, in the case of Spoiler, (apparently) that isn't an option. The same is true for existing CPUs. Mitigation measures have a performance impact which varies greatly, depending on which exploit it addresses but the cumulative effect of these mitigations is very noticeable.
Spec - ex isn't going anywhere lol. Unless we make a breakthrough in process technology that leads to massive increases in clock rates, like 10GHz+. Possible actually with graphene or something. That would allow an in-order CPU without speculative execution to achieve decent performance compared to currrent designs. BUT now imagine the same CPU with speculative execution. I guess the issue of utilisation in the core engine gets worse with wider cores. So many processing components to occupy, otherwise they sit idle and wasted, so the engine has to start guessing what might be needed....Otherwise we'll be waiting for organic computers I think. Our brains are very very powerful and efficient. We can learn many things from nature even with regards to information processing. This will obviously requier massive changes to the entire principle of computing though~

Manu_PT said:
Is called DPC latency and it is objectively lower on Windows 7. Has nothing to do with software. Is the OS itself. And I dont care about DX12. 99% of the games have DX11 compability. Also Windows 10 is crap for audio production do to its latency.

Windows 10 is only used by a lot of people because microsoft pushed hard on those auto updates. The OS itself is a mess and doesnt take the best from your hardware. 1809 October update is even worse.
never noticed any performance issues going from 7 to 8.1 to 10. ~shrug~
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#45
R0H1T
Pretty sure they'll do an XP with super critical updates, though whether that reaches the masses in a timely manner is another matter altogether.
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#46
HTC
ArbitraryAffection said:
Spec - ex isn't going anywhere lol. Unless we make a breakthrough in process technology that leads to massive increases in clock rates, like 10GHz+. Possible actually with graphene or something. That would allow an in-order CPU without speculative execution to achieve decent performance compared to currrent designs. BUT now imagine the same CPU with speculative execution. I guess the issue of utilisation in the core engine gets worse with wider cores. So many processing components to occupy, otherwise they sit idle and wasted, so the engine has to start guessing what might be needed....Otherwise we'll be waiting for organic computers I think. Our brains are very very powerful and efficient. We can learn many things from nature even with regards to information processing. This will obviously requier massive changes to the entire principle of computing though~
Outright removal of spec - ex would mean a very serious performance hit because spec - ex is that important in today's CPUs. CPU manufacturers have to come up with a way to gain today's CPU performance without spec - ex: not an easy feat.

Until then, we're stuck with software mitigations, with the associated performance penalties they entail. Since it appears spec - ex has more holes than Swiss cheese, there may be a point when CPU manufacturers are forced to remove it (disabled in BIOS???), even if they haven't succeeded in creating comparable performance CPUs without spec - ex.
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#47
ArbitraryAffection
HTC said:
Outright removal of spec - ex would mean a very serious performance hit because spec - ex is that important in today's CPUs. CPU manufacturers have to come up with a way to gain today's CPU performance without spec - ex: not an easy feat.

Until then, we're stuck with software mitigations, with the associated performance penalties they entail. Since it appears spec - ex has more holes than Swiss cheese, there may be a point when CPU manufacturers are forced to remove it (disabled in BIOS???), even if they haven't succeeded in creating comparable performance CPUs without spec - ex.
You're right but clock rates in excess of 10 ghz would mitigate those reductions in instructions per second at a huge cost of instructions per clock. At least i think so. Thoughts?
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#48
Kovoet
And yet they won't stop the auto updates.
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#49
Ferrum Master
So much sh** again in the posts.

It degrades Skylake and up arch. Older ones should be fine.
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#50
Nxodus
Great, I have the update installed. But didn't notice lag in Far Cry New Dawn
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