Monday, August 5th 2019

Cryorig Not Dead, But the US-China Trade-War Hurt It

There have been spectacular rumors flying around on Reddit that PC cooling components major Cryorig has shut down, with telltale signs being their telephone-support number going dead, their Newegg store being out-of-stock for months, and their Twitter account falling silent. We've reviewed close to a dozen Cryorig products, and our last review was dated October 2018. We reached out to Cryorig and one of their representatives was kind enough to respond to us with an update on what has happened at the company. Cryorig is impacted by the U.S.-China trade-war, as the high import tariffs affected the viability of its products. The company would earlier directly access the U.S. market through exclusive stores on Amazon and Newegg.

The company continues to have active market-presence elsewhere, including Asia and Europe. Cryorig clarified in unequivocal terms that it has not, and will not, exit the U.S. market. The company stated that it is merely waiting for respite from the crippling import tariff. In the meantime, it has sought out a new U.S.-based distributor who will import Cryorig products, and resell them. This distributor will also take over other aspects of the U.S. business, including aftersales support, RMA, etc.
This distributor is Outlet PC, a U.S.-based retailer that sells a broad selection of discounted PC hardware. The transition from Cryorig's current U.S. distributor to Outlet PC will take place by early-August. Cryorig relies heavily on the U.S. market and the trade-war has hurt it. "We are going to cooperate with Outlet PC and see how we can deal with the tax rate, but also hope the tax rate could be lowered," the Cryorig representative said, referring to the increased import tariffs. "Hoping daily for a trade deal to get worked out between the USA and China, but business must go on," they added. "Once a deal is in place, we should see relief and hopefully a market that will pick up quickly," they hoped. The company's last trade-show outing was Computex 2018, and it skipped this year's show. Based on our communications it seems serious about restoring its U.S. market presence so it could come back with newer products. We are closely tracking this story, and will update you by early-August on Cryorig as Outlet PC takes over its U.S. operations.
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31 Comments on Cryorig Not Dead, But the US-China Trade-War Hurt It

#1
Ferrum Master
Well, EU welcomes them for making buisness strategy relying only on one market... That's buisness, no hard feelings.
Posted on Reply
#2
HaKN !
" So much winning "
Posted on Reply
#3
Ferrum Master
HaKN !, post: 4092535, member: 159607"
" So much winning "
I just checked my local prices. It seems they are out of touch with reallity bit...

Their CRYORIG CPU COOLER R1 ULTIMATE goes for 92€, while the NOCTUA NH-D15S goes for 83€ (those prices are with VAT), and the latter one is better in my books (better mount, fan and clearance). It shouldn't be like that, thus no wonders. Don't blame only the US tariffs.
Posted on Reply
#4
cucker tarlson
Ferrum Master, post: 4092540, member: 90058"
I just checked my local prices. It seems they are out of touch with reallity bit...

Their CRYORIG CPU COOLER R1 ULTIMATE goes for 92€, while the NOCTUA NH-D15S goes for 83€ (those prices are with VAT), and the latter one is better in my books (better mount, fan and clearance). It shouldn't be like that, thus no wonders. Don't blame only the US tariffs.
cause r1 is a performance oriented cooler with 2 fans,unlike notcua d15s with one fan.
btw r1 ultimate is about 10% cheaper than d15s here.
Posted on Reply
#5
HaKN !
Ferrum Master, post: 4092540, member: 90058"
I just checked my local prices. It seems they are out of touch with reallity bit...

Their CRYORIG CPU COOLER R1 ULTIMATE goes for 92€, while the NOCTUA NH-D15S goes for 83€ (those prices are with VAT), and the latter one is better in my books (better mount, fan and clearance). It shouldn't be like that, thus no wonders. Don't blame only the US tariffs.
I dont blame the US as a whole mate , i only blame the so called " leaders " who starts a financial war that the people who's gonna pay for it
Posted on Reply
#6
FreedomEclipse
~Technological Technocrat~
Ferrum Master, post: 4092540, member: 90058"
I just checked my local prices. It seems they are out of touch with reallity bit...

Their CRYORIG CPU COOLER R1 ULTIMATE goes for 92€, while the NOCTUA NH-D15S goes for 83€ (those prices are with VAT), and the latter one is better in my books (better mount, fan and clearance). It shouldn't be like that, thus no wonders. Don't blame only the US tariffs.
Yeah with the U.S raising tariffs. you cant expect the manufacturer NOT to raise prices to keep them from operating at a loss and going bust when they arent that big enough of a company with multiple revenue streams that they can swallow the cost. Dont blame Cryorig, blame the person in charge of the US who bumped up tariffs in the first place and started this trade war.
Posted on Reply
#7
Ferrum Master
cucker tarlson, post: 4092544, member: 173472"
cause r1 is a performance oriented cooler with 2 fans,unlike notcua d15s with one fan.
btw r1 ultimate is about 10% cheaper than d15s here.
Yet according to TPU review, the one fan still outperforms the dual FAN. I had the D15s, the second one is not really needed. That's not the point tho. I've checked your local prices, there are e shops that cheat VAT and go bankrupt making another firm and thus writes down the loss... casual scheme around here too. You have them very similar. The average price is already lower in Zlots than ours.

If we look at German Amazon, we can spot the same tendency as I have..

Posted on Reply
#8
Athlonite
Well that's nice to know atleast I'm not going to have any problems with warranty should a fan fail or heaven forbid a heat pipe should burst

you guys in Europe are getting burnt on pricing 104.90 euros ($169.41NZD) is way more than I paid here in Gougeland for my R1 Universal $136.00NZD
Posted on Reply
#9
Ferrum Master
Athlonite, post: 4092568, member: 80893"
Well that's nice to know atleast I'm not going to have any problems with warranty should a fan fail or heaven forbid a heat pipe should burst

you guys in Europe are getting burnt on pricing 104.90 euros ($169.41NZD) is way more than I paid here in Gougeland for my R1 Universal $136.00NZD
I am not whining, just comparing the strategy and pricing points.

What I am implying... Yes POTUS is a concern... but I am saying it is only the half truth. They are writing off poor buisness practice and blaming the US tariffs as a main cause. And actually all their competitiors at certain degree suffer from the same issues, yet they doesn't make statements like that. That's competion for you. We can blame certain person, that's easy for sure... let's make an annoucment and cry together.

They remind me of Prolimatech actually... same fate.
Posted on Reply
#10
FeelinFroggy
FreedomEclipse, post: 4092554, member: 38411"
Yeah with the U.S raising tariffs. you cant expect the manufacturer NOT to raise prices to keep them from operating at a loss and going bust when they arent that big enough of a company with multiple revenue streams that they can swallow the cost. Dont blame Cryorig, blame the person in charge of the US who bumped up tariffs in the first place and started this trade war.
Yeah, its not Cryorig or US leadership who is to blame, China is at fault here. This has been a long time coming and honestly, impact thus far has been minimal. I hope Cryorig can survive this trade war as I like their products. But unfortunately, the issues are between trade relations of the US and China are much bigger than Cryorig.
Posted on Reply
#11
cucker tarlson
whether r1 is more expensive in Latva is really irrelevant to the topic,dunno why you insist on bringing this particalar cooler up.Cryorig are an etablished company in the cooling business,they have air coolers,aios and fans for pretty much every purpose and no one wishes they left because of tariffs.I can see r1 ultimate is exactly the same price as d15 in the link you provided,now check the price of noctua's chromax accessories and compare them to cryorig r1 that looks great out of the box and visual kits cost 1/3 the price of noctua's.
Posted on Reply
#12
Ferrum Master
cucker tarlson, post: 4092608, member: 173472"
whether r1 is more expensive in Latva is really irrelevant to the topic,dunno why you insist on bringing this particalar cooler up.Cryorig are an etablished company in the cooling business,they have air coolers,aios and fans for pretty much every purpose and no one wishes they left because of tariffs.I can see r1 ultimate is exactly the same price as d15 in the link you provided,now check the price of noctua's chromax accessories and compare them to cryorig r1 that looks great out of the box and visual kits cost 1/3 the price of noctua's.
Did you even read my post? It seems no.
Posted on Reply
#13
dirtyferret
It's a shame, I bought a Cryorig H5 ultimate off for around $42 (now double the price) and H7 original for $29 (now $99) off of Amazon a few years back. Both quality coolers at those old price points but I don't see them lasting with their inability to fulfill supply and having third parties sell their inventory at outragious prices.
Posted on Reply
#14
cucker tarlson
Ferrum Master, post: 4092621, member: 90058"
Did you even read my post? It seems no.
yes,you're blaming it all on cryorig's bad value by cherry picking prices.
Posted on Reply
#15
dirtyferret
Ferrum Master, post: 4092574, member: 90058"
They remind me of Prolimatech actually... same fate.
Maybe @crazyeyesreaper can give his two cents since he would know more about the market then anyone here but to me the air cooler market seems to have razer thin margins compared to AIO. I recall both Antec and Corsair offering air coolers in the USA and quickly getting out the market and air cooler business. I've seen more established companies like BE Quiet or Scythe with inventory issues on Amazon and Newegg. But it does seem like Cryorig will join Prolimantech as offering quality coolers and then quickly leaving the USA market.
Posted on Reply
#16
danbert2000
Yep, looks like there will be quite the burden put on imported technology products that we all enjoy. I'm no fan of China's government, or the situation with IP theft of American companies, but I'm not sure that levying a tax on computer enthusiasts is going to create political pressure to change the situation, or if it does, why we must pay the U.S. government a penalty for pursuing our hobby.

Same thing is going to be happening to board games, consoles, merchandise, etc. What happened to free markets?
Posted on Reply
#17
crazyeyesreaper
Chief Broken Rig
dirtyferret, post: 4092637, member: 95839"
Maybe @crazyeyesreaper can give his two cents since he would know more about the market then anyone here but to me the air cooler market seems to have razer thin margins compared to AIO. I recall both Antec and Corsair offering air coolers in the USA and quickly getting out the market and air cooler business. I've seen more established companies like BE Quiet or Scythe with inventory issues on Amazon and Newegg. But it does seem like Cryorig will join Prolimantech as offering quality coolers and then quickly leaving the USA market.
The old business practice basically kept things simple but resulted in what I would anticipate were lower margins. Notice they sold on Newegg through their own store and items shipped direct from overseas.

With Tariffs it likely ate into that margin to the point they were taking a loss. From what I can see its basically a business plan that relied on the old trade deals / status quo. Now that everything has gone to shit said business plan doesn't work. Other vendors are getting hit too but their business plan / distribution setup allows them to hold out. So Cryorig has to adapt and it appears they are attempting to do so. Time will tell if it works.
Posted on Reply
#18
skates
FeelinFroggy, post: 4092577, member: 174277"
Yeah, its not Cryorig or US leadership who is to blame, China is at fault here. This has been a long time coming and honestly, impact thus far has been minimal. I hope Cryorig can survive this trade war as I like their products. But unfortunately, the issues are between trade relations of the US and China are much bigger than Cryorig.
Absolutely right.
Posted on Reply
#19
Bones
HaKN !, post: 4092535, member: 159607"
" So much winning "
Yes it is - If that's what it takes to make things better, so be it.
Posted on Reply
#20
John Naylor
Cryorig also suffered from competition from Scythe whose performance topped both Noctua's and Cryorig's $90 cooler for half the price.

They are now up at $59.99
Posted on Reply
#21
dirtyferret
John Naylor, post: 4092770, member: 156078"
Cryorig also suffered from competition from Scythe whose performance topped both Noctua's and Cryorig's $90 cooler for half the price.
Actually scythe had their own supply issues especially on Amazon
Posted on Reply
#22
John Naylor
FeelinFroggy, post: 4092577, member: 174277"
Yeah, its not Cryorig or US leadership who is to blame, China is at fault here. This has been a long time coming and honestly, impact thus far has been minimal. I hope Cryorig can survive this trade war as I like their products. But unfortunately, the issues are between trade relations of the US and China are much bigger than Cryorig.
Minimal ... ? This was for the 10%

Example: MSI’s NVIDIA RTX Lineup New Pricing After Trump Tariff

Here is one of the lists we received with post-tariff pricing going live very soon (if not already):
  • RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio: $1231 to $1310
  • RTX 2080 Ti DUKE 11G OC: $1212 to $1290
  • RTX 2080 Ti VENTUS 11G OC: $1203 to $1280
  • RTX 2080 Gaming X Trio: $849 to $900
  • RTX 2080 DUKE 8G OC: $840 to $890
  • RTX 2080 VENTUS 8G OC: $830 to $880
Not going to argue the point regarding Cryorig ... but the US has only themselves to blame for the trade situation with China. Had US companies been willing to pay a fair / living wage all the production facilities wouldn't be in China. The tariffs are an ill advised policy that is severely hurting US companies all by themselves. Let's compare.

Companies like Cyberpower build PCs here using US labor. Where possible, they can avoid the tariffs but as most components are made only in China, most of the products costs are effected by the US Tariff. For arguments sake, let's call the cost of components $1200 with 3/4 of that sourced from China and incurring a $225 tariff. Let's call Cyberpower's labor cost $300 using living wage US labor.

Now companies like Dell, HP, and all the boxes found in big box stores ... the get put on the shelves in the very same boxes that they left China. Because they are fully assembled in Chine they are exempt from the Trump tariffs. So to sell the same PC with the exact same componentry ... they have a $225 price advantage from the get go. They are using cheap Chine based labor so costs are $100 per unit, another $200 advantage.

So how the hell is any of this going to change anything other than companies like Cyberpower will go out of business ? Stop drinking the Kool-Aid ... nothing is going to change for better in the PC market, it's just shifting production from US to China and destroying the US based PC industry.

Build a PC in America, pay the tariffs.
Build a PC in China ... no tariffs.

And all the while, half the folks are walking around believing that China's somehow going to buckle when all that's happening is their US competition is in tatters;

https://www.pcmag.com/news/369917/trump-10-percent-tariffs-on-chinese-imports-start-in-septem

"Fully assembled consumer electronics have so far been spared from Trump's existing tariffs on Chinese imports. However, the vendors behind certain computer components such as motherboards, graphics cards, and PC cases, have not been so lucky. Last year, the US began tariffing them at 10 percent before raising the rate to 25 percent in May. "

https://www.publictechnews.com/heres-how-trumps-tariffs-hike-may-affect-prices-for-pc-parts-pcmag/

"The tariff list covers a lot of computer parts, including motherboards, graphics cards, CPU coolers and even desktop cases. TVs, digital cameras and internet modems have also been ensnared as well. However, smartphones and fully assembled PCs have been spared. "

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/18/17873440/trump-tariff-china-tech-apple-trade-war

"US companies assembling computers from imported parts face the same problem. Dell, which runs assembly plants in Massachusetts and North Carolina said the tariffss “could result in serious damage to Dell and its employees,” with the new costs either raising the price of products or coming out of the company’s bottom line. Competitors that keep their assembly in China would be unaffected. "

The economic damage will be particularly severe for smaller companies. CyberPowerPC, a small LA company specializing in high-end custom computers, pleaded its case to the USTR earlier this month. “These tariffs will increase the cost of all of our products and we will no longer be able to stay competitive,” the company’s CEO wrote. “In our company’s 20-year history, the proposed Section 301 Tariff Action is the greatest threat to our company’s survivability to ever arise.”

John Samborski, CEO of an Illinois-based PC manufacturer focused on education and government contracts, put the tariffs in even harsher terms, saying simply: “I don’t recall the President campaigning on ‘Making China Great Again.’

This is not the place to discuss tariffs on anything else but PC products but it's clear that all this will do is shift PC assembly / production ***out of the United States to China*** or other 3rd world countries. Wouldn't the smarter thing to do be to place the 25% tariff on the fully assembled PCs and leave the componentry alone ? Would that shift production quickly to the IUS as all one needs is an empty warehouse ? Many components are now made ony in China so it's not as if US companies have alternative sources for those ... FAb plants take 4-5 years to get up and running.

A logical approach would be to start with the 25% on fully assembled PCs and then phase in the tariffs on componentry over 5 years... providing an exemption to companies that start building fab plants.
Posted on Reply
#23
FeelinFroggy
John Naylor, post: 4092790, member: 156078"
Minimal ... ? This was for the 10%

Example: MSI’s NVIDIA RTX Lineup New Pricing After Trump Tariff

Here is one of the lists we received with post-tariff pricing going live very soon (if not already):
  • RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio: $1231 to $1310
  • RTX 2080 Ti DUKE 11G OC: $1212 to $1290
  • RTX 2080 Ti VENTUS 11G OC: $1203 to $1280
  • RTX 2080 Gaming X Trio: $849 to $900
  • RTX 2080 DUKE 8G OC: $840 to $890
  • RTX 2080 VENTUS 8G OC: $830 to $880
Not going to argue the point regarding Cryorig ... but the US has only themselves to blame for the trade situation with China. Had US companies been willing to pay a fair / living wage all the production facilities wouldn't be in China. The tariffs are an ill advised policy that is severely hurting US companies all by themselves. Let's compare.

Companies like Cyberpower build PCs here using US labor. Where possible, they can avoid the tariffs but as most components are made only in China, most of the products costs are effected by the US Tariff. For arguments sake, let's call the cost of components $1200 with 3/4 of that sourced from China and incurring a $225 tariff. Let's call Cyberpower's labor cost $300 using living wage US labor.

Now companies like Dell, HP, and all the boxes found in big box stores ... the get put on the shelves in the very same boxes that they left China. Because they are fully assembled in Chine they are exempt from the Trump tariffs. So to sell the same PC with the exact same componentry ... they have a $225 price advantage from the get go. They are using cheap Chine based labor so costs are $100 per unit, another $200 advantage.

So how the hell is any of this going to change anything other than companies like Cyberpower will go out of business ? Stop drinking the Kool-Aid ... nothing is going to change for better in the PC market, it's just shifting production from US to China and destroying the US based PC industry.

Build a PC in America, pay the tariffs.
Build a PC in China ... no tariffs.

And all the while, half the folks are walking around believing that China's somehow going to buckle when all that's happening is their US competition is in tatters;

https://www.pcmag.com/news/369917/trump-10-percent-tariffs-on-chinese-imports-start-in-septem

"Fully assembled consumer electronics have so far been spared from Trump's existing tariffs on Chinese imports. However, the vendors behind certain computer components such as motherboards, graphics cards, and PC cases, have not been so lucky. Last year, the US began tariffing them at 10 percent before raising the rate to 25 percent in May. "

https://www.publictechnews.com/heres-how-trumps-tariffs-hike-may-affect-prices-for-pc-parts-pcmag/

"The tariff list covers a lot of computer parts, including motherboards, graphics cards, CPU coolers and even desktop cases. TVs, digital cameras and internet modems have also been ensnared as well. However, smartphones and fully assembled PCs have been spared. "

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/18/17873440/trump-tariff-china-tech-apple-trade-war

"US companies assembling computers from imported parts face the same problem. Dell, which runs assembly plants in Massachusetts and North Carolina said the tariffss “could result in serious damage to Dell and its employees,” with the new costs either raising the price of products or coming out of the company’s bottom line. Competitors that keep their assembly in China would be unaffected. "

The economic damage will be particularly severe for smaller companies. CyberPowerPC, a small LA company specializing in high-end custom computers, pleaded its case to the USTR earlier this month. “These tariffs will increase the cost of all of our products and we will no longer be able to stay competitive,” the company’s CEO wrote. “In our company’s 20-year history, the proposed Section 301 Tariff Action is the greatest threat to our company’s survivability to ever arise.”

John Samborski, CEO of an Illinois-based PC manufacturer focused on education and government contracts, put the tariffs in even harsher terms, saying simply: “I don’t recall the President campaigning on ‘Making China Great Again.’

This is not the place to discuss tariffs on anything else but PC products but it's clear that all this will do is shift PC assembly / production ***out of the United States to China*** or other 3rd world countries. Wouldn't the smarter thing to do be to place the 25% tariff on the fully assembled PCs and leave the componentry alone ? Would that shift production quickly to the IUS as all one needs is an empty warehouse ? Many components are now made ony in China so it's not as if US companies have alternative sources for those ... FAb plants take 4-5 years to get up and running.

A logical approach would be to start with the 25% on fully assembled PCs and then phase in the tariffs on componentry over 5 years... providing an exemption to companies that start building fab plants.
I don’t mean any disrespect, but I think you are being a little short sighted here. The global economy is a lot bigger than pc components.

The overall economy is doing very well, at least in the US. That is what I mean by little impact. My 401k has done well the past couple of years. A few years ago the economy was not strong enough to challenge China as entire industries would have been at risk of collapse.

I will probably piss people off by saying this, but this problem is bigger a lot bigger than GPU prices and companies that make CPU cooling solutions. We are talking about currency manipulation, patent infringement, and a slew of other corrupt trade practices.
Posted on Reply
#24
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
FeelinFroggy, post: 4092842, member: 174277"
I don’t mean any disrespect, but I think you are being a little short sighted here. The global economy is a lot bigger than pc components.

The overall economy is doing very well, at least in the US. That is what I mean by little impact. My 401k has done well the past couple of years. A few years ago the economy was not strong enough to challenge China as entire industries would have been at risk of collapse.

I will probably piss people off by saying this, but this problem is bigger a lot bigger than GPU prices and companies that make CPU cooling solutions. We are talking about currency manipulation, patent infringement, and a slew of other corrupt trade practices.
Truth here.

People seem short sited this day and age or listen to cnn/msm...

Eitherway I noticed in testing that they are slipping down in performance. So I will go to Scythe/Thermalright on a future upgrade.
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