Wednesday, September 25th 2019

Intel's 14nm Chip Shortage Continues

Intel is constantly having troubles with its silicon manufacturing business lately. Firstly the late delivery of 10 nm, then the shortage of 14 nm chips that started all the way back in 2018. Despite the making of $1 Billion investment into extending its 14 nm production capacity, there seems to be no end of troubles in sight.

According to sources close to DigiTimes, 14 nm production has fallen short of demand again and will likely cause many notebook manufacturers to delay their products to 2020. Most likely victim of this delay is the newly announced 10th generation mobile CPUs codenamed Comet Lake. Those CPUs were supposed to be built using Intel's "14nm++" revision of 14 nm technology which targets higher CPU frequencies and improved efficiency, but most likely due to continued shortage of 14nm, there will be only a few notebooks powered by these chips. As the source suggests, many manufacturers are likely to delay the launch of their products to 2020, when this situation is supposed to be resolved.
Source: DigiTimes
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37 Comments on Intel's 14nm Chip Shortage Continues

#1
trparky
AleksandarK, post: 4122275, member: 187454"
cause many notebook manufacturers to delay their products to 2020.
Even when there are AMD chips to be used?
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#2
techguymaxc
Intel doesn't have a 14nm+++ process.

From their investor's day back in May:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14312/intel-process-technology-roadmap-refined-nodes-specialized-technologies

Officially, there is a single 14nm high performance process dubbed "P1272":
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/process

These "++" designations are marketing terms. They were created when it became apparent that the 10nm process "P1274" would was going to be delayed.
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#3
yeeeeman
No problem dear manufacturers, you can fix this by using also AMD cpus. You're welcome.
Posted on Reply
#4
AleksandarK
techguymaxc, post: 4122294, member: 190760"
Intel doesn't have a 14nm+++ process.

From their investor's day back in May:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14312/intel-process-technology-roadmap-refined-nodes-specialized-technologies

Officially, there is a single 14nm high performance process dubbed "P1272":
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/process

These "++" designations are marketing terms. They were created when it became apparent that the 10nm process "P1274" would was going to be delayed.
Thanks for pointing this out! Article updated
Posted on Reply
#5
TheDeeGee
aka we want to raise prices again.
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#6
silentbogo
trparky, post: 4122292, member: 170376"
Even when there are AMD chips to be used?
It's not that easy with AMD either. AMD's focus is on desktop/server market, while mobile and embedded chip stock is very-very limited. That's why there are so few Ryzen laptops (mostly limited to business-class laptops like HP Probook or Lenovo Thinkpad series). There were some cheap sub $400 ryzen 3 laptops from lenovo, but those were out of stock in my parts of the world since July or so.
Same reason we don't see embedded SoCs or SoMs from AMD either - all of them went to UDOO, Smach, and khm-khm... Atari.
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#7
Tomgang
Jess will the shortage never end. Both Intel and AMD has delivery problems. Intel for a long time now and AMD because TSMC cant keep up with the demand from AMD, apple and others that are on 7 NM. Just see for how long Ryzen 9 3900X has been out of stock and Ryzen 9 3950X got delayed to november. I have not been looking for how bad it is for Intels out of stock status throw.

intel, AMD/TSMC is not geared for hardware hungry consumers it seems. I better put in a order on a Ryzen 9 3950X as soon they come up for order, else i can end up wait to next year for a new cpu.

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#8
BakerMan1971
Just had a big increase in prices from our suppliers, interestingly to get back to near normal price we are now ordering Ryzen laptops
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#9
techguymaxc
AleksandarK, post: 4122303, member: 187454"
Thanks for pointing this out! Article updated
Thank you for updating!
Posted on Reply
#10
Turmania
I have been very critical of AMD and their neverending bios issues and drivers.But Intel is pushing the very limits of tolerance.
Posted on Reply
#11
Cheeseball
trparky, post: 4122292, member: 170376"
Even when there are AMD chips to be used?
AMD only has a few mobile solutions available:

R7-3750H - this directly competes with the i5-9300H and has a better IGP, but is only Zen+
R7-2800H - was supposed to take on i7-8750H, but only a Zen quad-core but better IGP than the above
R7-3700U - Zen+ that can properly compete with Intel's ultra portable CPUs

The only problem is that the drivers are really crap in the mobile space, even since the A10 laptops. I have an Ideapad Flex 14 with the 3700U and an older HP Pavilion with a A10-9620P. Great graphics performance for both, but shitty thermals (this is expected) and not-so-stable drivers.
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#12
trparky
Cheeseball, post: 4122345, member: 64157"
but is only Zen+
So what? It's a mobile device. You're not going to be doing heavy workloads on a notebook, that's what the desktop is for where you don't have silly things like thermal and power limitations. If you ask me, we're asking too much of notebook devices.
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#13
iO
Tomgang, post: 4122325, member: 154607"
Jess will the shortage never end. Both Intel and AMD has delivery problems. Intel for a long time now and AMD because TSMC cant keep up with the demand from AMD, apple and others that are on 7 NM. Just see for how long Ryzen 9 3900X has been out of stock and Ryzen 9 3950X got delayed to november. I have not been looking for how bad it is for Intels out of stock status throw.

intel, AMD/TSMC is not geared for hardware hungry consumers it seems. I better put in a order on a Ryzen 9 3950X as soon they come up for order, else i can end up wait to next year for a new cpu.


It's not the lack of dies that creates the shortage of 3900Xs but the quality of the chips. 3900X already only clock to ~3.9Ghz on all cores, now add four more at the same "105 Watt" TDP and you could end up with like 3.5Ghz or so for the 3950X. Not so great... So they need the absolute best bins with the lowest voltages to not run into the power limit, for both single and multi core turbo.
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#14
theoneandonlymrk
Do you think the big server fish got their chips?

And Is it really just consumer 14nm that's constrained.?
Posted on Reply
#15
Tomgang
iO, post: 4122361, member: 107457"
It's not the lack of dies that creates the shortage of 3900Xs but the quality of the chips. 3900X already only clock to ~3.9Ghz on all cores, now add four more at the same "105 Watt" TDP and you could end up with like 3.5Ghz or so for the 3950X. Not so great... So they need the absolute best bins with the lowest voltages to not run into the power limit, for both single and multi core turbo.
Off cause the max boost all core clock is lower on 3950X than 3900X then the TDP is the same for both chips. I dit not exspect any thing else. Its not really a problem for me, as i will just has to go in to bios an allow the CPU to draw more watt and/or tweak core clocks. That shut allow for higher all core boost clock. It´s the same with intel like exsample I9 9900K, if you run the cpu at its rated TDP of 95 watt you wount get high core clock out of it either. To get the all core boost of 4.7 GHz constantly, it will draw something like 140-160 watt and thats the same for 3950X. More cores at the same TDP can only results in lower core clocks.
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#16
CityCultivator
Cheeseball, post: 4122345, member: 64157"
The only problem is that the drivers are really crap in the mobile space, even since the A10 laptops. I have an Ideapad Flex 14 with the 3700U and an older HP Pavilion with a A10-9620P. Great graphics performance for both, but shitty thermals (this is expected) and not-so-stable drivers.
AMD now officially provide the latest chipset and graphics drivers. Are you using those (on the Ideapad)?
My system is quite stable (Previous bsods i had was for video playback, which plagued also desktop systems, and is now fixed).
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#17
Mistral
trparky, post: 4122292, member: 170376"
Even when there are AMD chips to be used?
Contracts and "incentives"...
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#18
Cheeseball
trparky, post: 4122351, member: 170376"
So what? It's a mobile device. You're not going to be doing heavy workloads on a notebook, that's what the desktop is for where you don't have silly things like thermal and power limitations. If you ask me, we're asking too much of notebook devices.
I would like AMD to compete in the high-end/gaming laptop market so we can have better prices. Currently the i7-8570H/i7-9570H have no rival in performance for that segment, especially when adequately cooled. Bringing around an ITX desktop with a monitor is not ideal.

CityCultivator, post: 4122391, member: 181300"
AMD now officially provide the latest chipset and graphics drivers. Are you using those (on the Ideapad)?
My system is quite stable (Previous bsods i had was for video playback, which plagued also desktop systems, and is now fixed).
I'm on 19.9.2 (WHQL) now. I was mostly having problems with MATLAB and random BSODs when running stuff with parallel pool, but for the last few days after the update it seems to be working fine. The other problem is when waking up from S3 where the Flex doesn't display anything on the laptop screen right away, but it works after ~20 seconds. If it's hooked up through HDMI, waking up displays on-screen right away.
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#19
CityCultivator
Cheeseball, post: 4122409, member: 64157"
I'm on 19.9.2 (WHQL) now. I was mostly having problems with MATLAB and random BSODs when running stuff with parallel pool, but for the last few days after the update it seems to be working fine. The other problem is when waking up from S3 where the Flex doesn't display anything on the laptop screen right away, but it works after ~20 seconds. If it's hooked up through HDMI, waking up displays on-screen right away.
This appears to be a problem for the amd forum.
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#20
wiyosaya
Karma catches up with sIntel.
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#21
Cheeseball
CityCultivator, post: 4122413, member: 181300"
This appears to be a problem for the amd forum.
Yeah, I was thinking it was a Lenovo-specific problem, but it looks like other 2-in-1s (ASUS ZenBook) and some standard laptops (Acer A515) have the same issue. I'm sure its just a BIOS/AMD chipset driver issue, but it's still annoying to experience when at work.
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#22
medi01
3300U, 3500U, 3700U, even though 12nm, are available and rock.

PS
I can't believe FUD about drivers is still alive. Good job, shils.
Posted on Reply
#24
Aldain
Turmania, post: 4122338, member: 182201"
I have been very critical of AMD and their neverending bios issues and drivers.But Intel is pushing the very limits of tolerance.
what god damn bios issues?? does amd make bios-es NOW??
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#25
biffzinker
Cheeseball, post: 4122409, member: 64157"
I would like AMD to compete in the high-end/gaming laptop market so we can have better prices.
How about the rumored Surfacebook with AMD 6/8 core?
A leaked document provided to the site claims that the upcoming larger 15-inch Surface Laptop 3 will offer at least six different configurations, starting with the existing 4-core/8-thread Ryzen 5 3550U and Ryzen 7 3750U, but extending into “completely new AMD Ryzen processors with six or even eight cores.”
https://pcper.com/2019/09/6-and-8-core-ryzen-mobile-surface-laptop-3/
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