Monday, January 6th 2020

AMD Announces Ryzen 4000 Mobile Processors: 4800U and 4800H

AMD today announced its Ryzen 4000-series mobile processors designed to compete with Intel's fastest, across both its 10th gen "Ice Lake" and "Comet Lake" mobile processors lines. At the heart of these processors is the 7 nm "Renoir" silicon, which doubles the CPU core count over the previous generation "Picasso," and improves IPC (single-thread performance) by a double-digit percentage. "Renoir" combines a CPU with 8 cores based on the "Zen 2" microarchitecture, with an iGPU that has the number-crunching machinery of "Vega," but with display- and multimedia-engines of "Navi." It is a monolithic piece of silicon with a dual-channel IMC that supports not just conventional DDR4 memory, but also fast LPDDR4X.

There are two distinct classes of Ryzen 4000 Mobile: U and H. The Ryzen 7 4800U, with its 15 W TDP, targets ultra-portable notebooks, and goes head-on against Intel's Core i7 "Ice Lake-U" processors, winning on the CPU front with its high core-count and IPC. The Ryzen 7 4800H, on the other hand, taps into the 45 W TDP headroom to dial up CPU and iGPU clock-speeds significantly, offering CPU performance that beats the desktop Core i7-9700K. It also introduces SmartShift, an iGPU + dGPU virtualization technology that lets your notebook dynamically switch between the two based on graphics load.
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53 Comments on AMD Announces Ryzen 4000 Mobile Processors: 4800U and 4800H

#1
Arc1t3ct
It's not even funny anymore...
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#2
Basard
Arc1t3ct
It's not even funny anymore...
It's hilarious!!
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#3
Cheeseball
Not a Potato
They should've targeted the i7-10710U since it's Intel's only (currently) 6C/12T ultra-notebook CPU (with the older UHD 620). I'm pretty sure their slides would still beat it out considering its still 14nm. The i7-1065G7 is only a 4C/8T, biased more on the IGP at 10nm, which is good enough for 12" and 13.3" chassis.

However, a Dell G5 with a 4800H and possibly a 5600M or 5700M? Most likely a great successor to my aging G5 5587.
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#4
R0H1T
ICL is more efficient that's why, would be interesting to see how Renoir fares in the same chassis as ICL with an IPC disadvantage but w/IGP advantage.
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#5
Unregistered
Mobile CPU performance in a 45w package (CPU and IGP) that beats the desktop 9700k that must be BS surely?
#6
Cheeseball
Not a Potato
You know what would be really nice? Some sort of 6C/12T 4700H/4750H, which is basically a low-powered 3600/3600X.

Possibly ~20% less power consumption than a i7-8750H/i7-9750H, ~10°C cooler than those mentioned chips and paired with a 5600M/5700M, drop it into one of those newer Razer Blade 15 chassis (the one that can do 70°C full load) or Dell G5 5587 (this thing can take 100°C, tried and tested), keep it at 5 to 6 lbs and sell it for $1,199.00.

I would empty my wallet for one.
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#7
Mats
Edit: It's physics..

r9370
Mobile CPU performance in a 45w package (CPU and IGP) that beats the desktop 9700k that must be BS surely?
One has the fastest IGP ever, the other has (more or less) a 4.5 year old IGP that wasn't the fastest even at launch in 2015. Not even Intels fastest back then.

2015: The 65 W CPU beats the 95 W CPU by 30 %.

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#8
Darmok N Jalad
I’m curious about the Vega improvements they claim to have made. They talked a lot about RDNA acceptance in their 2019 recap, but then they announce what sounds like Vega 1.5. Maybe the newer process allowed them to get it right?
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#9
Tomgang
Insert stop he's already dead meme here showing Intel getting kicked. That's all really now amd do to Intel.

On the laptop marked amd has the lead, desktop, HEDT and server as well. 2020 going to be a very tough year for Intel with marked share loss and loss in income. Maybe by 2021 Intel stand a chance when they are coming with 10 nm, but until then, Intel is not gonna be much of a thread to amd in 2020.
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#10
Zubasa
Darmok N Jalad
I’m curious about the Vega improvements they claim to have made. They talked a lot about RDNA acceptance in their 2019 recap, but then they announce what sounds like Vega 1.5. Maybe the newer process allowed them to get it right?
The current APUs are heavily bottle-necked by the slow memory.
The LPDDR4X support alone is a massive improvement for IGPUs.
Some of the old crap-tops were running god forbid 2133 and 2666 memory. LPDDR4X can reach 4266 easily.
Vega itself was very bandwidth limited and doesn't scale well with more CUs, so a leaner GPU but higher clock speed with 7nm could be a significant improvement.
There are APU overclock results on HWbot and they show that Vega 8 and Vega 11 CUs are very close in performance.
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#11
hojnikb
How much radeon cores does 4800H have? 8 core (512SP) seems pretty low for the 4800U
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#12
R0H1T
Same as 4800U, there are also rumors that R9 mobile is also being made(?) & will be unveiled when the time comes. Presumably 16c at the top end, this thing will be a giant killer of sorts :laugh:
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#13
ratirt
I need to see how this one performs. It would be nice to get a new laptop some time from now. I still need to see performance charts and benchmarks but it looks good to me. Wonder what the price for this one is?
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#14
ScaLibBDP
Attention to OpenCL ( Open Compute Language ) software developers...

AMD quietly stopped supporting CPU-type Compute Devices of OpenCL. The problem was detected in December 2019 on ASUS TUF FX505DU Gaming Notebook. Initially, it was considered as a problem of ASUS but actually this is Not the case. During recent visit to a nearby BestBuy store the problem was easily seen on MSI and Acer Gaming and HP Envy Notebooks. We contacted AMD Tech Support and all our attempts to bring attention of that problem to AMD's Software Engineers failed. Tech support from AMD's Level 1 ( L1 ) couldn't reproduce the problem and bounced us in a very disrespectful way: "...Since we can't reproduce the problem this is Not our problem...".

It means, that in case of a system with:

- AMD Ryzen Mobile CPUs up to ~500 GFLOPs ( ~0.5 TFLOPs ) of processing power is Not available for OpenCL based processing
- AMD Ryzen Desktop CPUs more than 2 TFLOPs of processing power is Not available for OpenCL based processing
- AMD Epyc Server CPUs more than 4 TFLOPs of processing power is Not available for OpenCL based processing

That's a Lot of Processing Power and, unfortunately, AMD doesn't care about it!

Quality of OpenCL support from AMD went to the lowest level since 2015-2016 years and a recent AMD Display driver 26.20.11016.1 disabled NVIDIA's OpenCL support on an ASUS Gaming system. AMD's 26.20.11016.1 driver was rollbacked to a driver from AMD Adrenalin 19.9.2 package.

Also, AMD stopped supporting AMD Accelerated Parallel Processing SDK ( aka AMD APP SDK ) and the SDK was also quietly removed from the AMD's website. All attempts to bring back The Best SDK for OpenCL programming failed.

At the same time NVIDIA and Intel continue to support OpenCL and on Dell Precision Mobile workstations all types of OpenCL Compute Devices are available for processing.

We really wanted to upgrade hardware to systems with AMD CPU's ( a resolute move from Intel CPUs ) but due to all these negative discoveries all upgrades are on hold...
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#15
Valantar
Cheeseball
You know what would be really nice? Some sort of 6C/12T 4700H/4750H, which is basically a low-powered 3600/3600X.

Possibly ~20% less power consumption than a i7-8750H/i7-9750H, ~10°C cooler than those mentioned chips and paired with a 5600M/5700M, drop it into one of those newer Razer Blade 15 chassis (the one that can do 70°C full load) or Dell G5 5587 (this thing can take 100°C, tried and tested), keep it at 5 to 6 lbs and sell it for $1,199.00.

I would empty my wallet for one.
From AnandTech, 15W(-25W cTDP) APU lineup:

45W* APU lineup

*Asus has the best bin of the 4800H exclusively for 6 months as the 4800HS at 35W and the same performance.


These things are going to kick Intel's butt. (As long as they actually get them out there.) While I would love even more iGPU power, I'm mightily impressed that they are outperforming the old iGPUs with significantly fewer CUs. I would definitely love a 25W cTDP 4800U or 4700U thin-and-light with a 120Hz IPS FreeSync display. Please, anyone?
hojnikb
How much radeon cores does 4800H have? 8 core (512SP) seems pretty low for the 4800U
I agree, but apparently the clock speed bump and increased memory bandwidth combine to make it significantly faster than the old 11CU chips. H parts have fewer CUs as OEMs don't seem to want to run them without a dGPU, sadly.
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#16
R0H1T
Valantar
I agree, but apparently the clock speed bump and increased memory bandwidth combine to make it significantly faster than the old 11CU chips.
At this point in time there's really no excuse not to include LPDDR4x in upper-mid or high end models, even with the base variant. They're the most ubiquitous memory used in the consumer space, with mobiles & tablets, so price & supply will also be well within range.
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#17
ratirt
Valantar
From AnandTech, 15W(-25W cTDP) APU lineup:

45W* APU lineup

*Asus has the best bin of the 4800H exclusively for 6 months as the 4800HS at 35W and the same performance.


These things are going to kick Intel's butt. (As long as they actually get them out there.) While I would love even more iGPU power, I'm mightily impressed that they are outperforming the old iGPUs with significantly fewer CUs. I would definitely love a 25W cTDP 4800U or 4700U thin-and-light with a 120Hz IPS FreeSync display. Please, anyone?


I agree, but apparently the clock speed bump and increased memory bandwidth combine to make it significantly faster than the old 11CU chips. H parts have fewer CUs as OEMs don't seem to want to run them without a dGPU, sadly.
I'm not sure why the 4800H has less CU's and lower frequency than the 4800U model, since the last one is the lower power product.
There must be a reason behind all this, I just can't see it.
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#18
HwGeek
OMG, 8C/16T in real 15W TDP ultrabook!,
also seems like NV should be worry, since Intel chose to go all in on the AI with GPUs were NV leads.
ratirt
I'm not sure why the 4800H has less CU's and lower frequency than the 4800U model, since the last one is the lower power product.
There must be a reason behind all this, I just can't see it.
4800H is intended to pair up with dGPU, so less focus on the iGPU.
Also lover clocks to give bigger TDP budget to the CPU.
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#19
ratirt
HwGeek
OMG, 8C/16T in real 15W TDP ultrabook!,
also seems like NV should be worry, since Intel chose to go all in on the AI with GPUs were NV leads.


4800H is intended to pair up with dGPU, so less focus on the iGPU.
Also lover clocks to give bigger TDP budget to the CPU.
The 4800H has higher TDP. Actually it can use twice as much power so not sure what the less CU's and frequency for GPU is for.
Both 4800U and 4800H are capped at 4200Mhz turbo.
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#20
Valantar
ratirt
I'm not sure why the 4800H has less CU's and lower frequency than the 4800U model, since the last one is the lower power product.
There must be a reason behind all this, I just can't see it.
ratirt
The 4800H has higher TDP. Actually it can use twice as much power so not sure what the less CU's and frequency for GPU is for.
Both 4800U and 4800H are capped at 4200Mhz turbo.
AMD commented directly on this, saying that OEMs don't seem interested in making dGPU-less laptops with the 45W chips. Slimming down the iGPU thus makes sense as its role then becomes "power saving GPU" rather than "maximum performance iGPU".

Of course there's also room for a Ryzen 9 in there when they do it like this. I for one would love a slim 45W-powered iGPU monster laptop, but I'm likely in the minority here.
R0H1T
At this point in time there's really no excuse not to include LPDDR4x in upper-mid or high end models, even with the base variant. They're the most ubiquitous memory used in the consumer space, with mobiles & tablets, so price & supply will also be well within range.
...yes? I don't see any iGPU-focused models launching with DDR4, at least. LPDDR4X is definitely the way forward, even if it means soldered RAM. They'll likely stick with DDR4 for more gaming or productivity-focused builds though, as upgradeability and capacity matter more than bandwidth there (and those tend to have dGPUs anyhow).
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#21
ratirt
Valantar
AMD commented directly on this, saying that OEMs don't seem interested in making dGPU-less laptops with the 45W chips. Slimming down the iGPU thus makes sense as its role then becomes "power saving GPU" rather than "maximum performance iGPU".

Of course there's also room for a Ryzen 9 in there when they do it like this. I for one would love a slim 45W-powered iGPU monster laptop, but I'm likely in the minority here.
I understand that saving power is great and laptop producers are after that but this isn't the case here.
The higher power model 4800H (which you said is supposed to use discrete card or dedicated whatever call it) has lower iGPU frequency and lower CU number. It already uses way more power but the power efficient model has higher iGPU frequency and more CU. With your logic it should have been all the way around. Not to mention, both the CPUs have same turbo boost (during load operate at the same speed).
And I disagree with you that OEMs don't want to sell discrete GPUs in laptops. It is not for them to decide what people will buy. A lot of people now move from tower/stationary computers and buy laptops for emails, browsing internet, stream movies etc. and play games. They need kinda good GPU to get 1080p res or even 2k with 60 or even more FPS depending on the screen's refresh rate. It is very common these days.
Besides, Power saving on the discrete GPU ain't anythin' new now. No matter what the GPU is (you dont need iGPU to save power if you browse internet). NV and AMD have that. My Vega 64 uses 15W-25W when I browse internet or when it idles.
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#22
R0H1T
ratirt
The higher power model 4800H (which you said is supposed to use discrete card or dedicated whatever call it) has lower iGPU frequency and lower CU number. It already uses way more power but the power efficient model has higher iGPU frequency and more CU.
I'm sure there's an R9 hidden in there somewhere, I just hope they don't sell it with 15W TDP :ohwell:

Also one would think that the best or perhaps full chips are reserved for MS or any other halo product, like with the surface lineup recently? I know there's speculation that Apple will move to Axx & ARM but it could well be AMD this time or at least till they move the entire ecosystem to ARM, barring the Mac pro.
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#23
Valantar
R0H1T
I'm sure there's an R9 hidden in there somewhere, I just hope they don't sell it with 15W TDP :ohwell:

Also one would think that the best or perhaps full chips are reserved for MS or any other halo product, like with the surface lineup recently? I know there's speculation that Apple will move to Axx & ARM but it could well be AMD this time or at least till they move the entire ecosystem to ARM, barring the Mac pro.
There's little chance of a 15W R9 (though a 25W-only one might happen, I suppose) - given the specs of the 4800U the only move they have is bumping clocks, which costs power. A 45W R9 would make a lot more sense as a) the 4800H isn't fully enabled, and b) there's far more leeway to make noticeable performance increases through clock bumps in those kinds of thermal envelopes.
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#24
ratirt
Valantar
There's little chance of a 15W R9 (though a 25W-only one might happen, I suppose) - given the specs of the 4800U the only move they have is bumping clocks, which costs power. A 45W R9 would make a lot more sense as a) the 4800H isn't fully enabled, and b) there's far more leeway to make noticeable performance increases through clock bumps in those kinds of thermal envelopes.
AMD hasn't said anything about higher models. Besides, I don't think there will be R9 release with iGPU. These are for Laptops only. Why would you need 16c/32t (even 12c24t is an overkill) in a laptop? Of course it must be low power. Also you just mentioned, there is no point for high power model and yet we have 45W model which has lower frequency and less CUs than the lower power one. So why does it have higher power envelope when it brings nothing new but instead weaker iGPU?
How can you say it is not fully enabled? They are not out yet even. What is there to enable when it is a chiplet design? Unless it is monolithic? It can't be monolithic.
Valantar
There's little chance of a 15W R9 (though a 25W-only one might happen, I suppose) - given the specs of the 4800U the only move they have is bumping clocks, which costs power. A 45W R9 would make a lot more sense as a) the 4800H isn't fully enabled, and b) there's far more leeway to make noticeable performance increases through clock bumps in those kinds of thermal envelopes.
I'm 99% sure the R9 laptop version is not coming. Not sure why you think there are any reserved chips for certain customers. It is all chiplets anyway and AMD can do whatever it wishes to do with it.
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#25
R0H1T
It is a monolithic design from all counts, also why not R9 even if it comes without a GPU?
On AMD’s desktop processor portfolio, the company released a combination package with 7nm and 14nm chips on it – for the new Ryzen 4000 series, codenamed Renoir, it’s a fully integrated monolithic piece of 7nm silicon, containing 8 Zen 2 cores and up to 8 compute units of enhanced Vega graphics.

AMD said that this decoupling of the infinity fabric and memory support, especially with both CPU and GPU accessing it, was made substantially easier due to the APU being a monolithic solution (with that in mind, it’s likely that AMD might not be going down the chiplet APU route any time soon).
www.anandtech.com/print/15324/amd-ryzen-4000-mobile-apus-7nm-8core-on-both-15w-and-45w-coming-q1
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