Razrback16I'll admit I'm pretty concerned about the next Witcher game due to all the cultural "stuff" that's going on - easily my all-time favorite franchise, and I'm afraid a bunch of wokeness is going to be injected into it making it a shell of what it was.

ColddeckedYou're worrying for nothing. For starters, CDPR have shown they dgaf about wokeness.

But, isn't dealing with racism/prejudice part of being Geralt? So there is a degree of "wokeness" that's built in the story. There's far too much thin skin on both sides if you ask me.

So the games (and books) have nothing to do with wokeness other than the fact they are a commentary on it. Got it.

dirtyferretSo the games (and books) have nothing to do with wokeness other than the fact they are a commentary on it. Got it.

Huh? I just said its part of Geralts story not that thats the only part.

ColddeckedHuh? I just said its part of Geralts story not that thats the only part.

I know, my point is how can someone be "afraid" of something being injected into a game when it's already in there and they enjoy it.

It would be like my stating " I hate anything with eggs in it. There are too many foods out there with eggs but I love quiche. Quiche is my all time favorite food and I can eat it every day."

Why_MeDoes Africa even have pc hardware stores?

This may have been somewhat tongue-in-cheek but yes some places in Africa are poor as hell with people, villages and electricity but rich in heat and amazing wildlife much of which can kill you; However particularly in South Africa I believe there are many more populous and modern areas that are much more akin to North America etc.

dirtyferretI know, my point is how can someone be "afraid" of something being injected into a game when it's already in there and they enjoy it.

It would be like my stating " I hate anything with eggs in it. There are too many foods out there with eggs but I love quiche. Quiche is my all time favorite food and I can eat it every day."

It's only when it is blatant and shoved in your face that you become aware.

Caring1It's only when it is blatant and shoved in your face that you become aware.

And you as a consumer have every right to shove the product right back and refuse to purchase it.

Personally, I have no issue with what Intel said. It's corporate speak for "There is a large and under served community of women, people of color, the LGBTQIA+ and those with disabilities. They want to spend more money on games but are finding it hard to find games they like. If the game developers create more games for them, they will buy more gaming hardware, and we at intel can sell more chips! This will better serve our true customer...the stock holder."

As gamer, I've seen this community grow online and I'm surprised more developers are not addressing their desires. I have no problem welcoming more gamers into the community, the healthier it is the better for all us. If i feel a product is being manipulative or focused too much on politics, I'll vote with my wallet. That said If I have to sit through awful "romance" dialogue and cut scenes in games, I think women, people of color, the LGBTQIA+ and those with disabilities should have the option to suffer through it as well.

Fergutor...you think "diversity and inclusion" is not politics!?!?! HA!!

Yes, but it's unavoidable due to the article. And technically it shouldn't be, as it's really just demographics.

Vayra86Oh just pick any random game of the last two-three years that is somewhat marketed to the mainstream.

You can almost copy paste the faces and styles and people types between them. Same with movies. No matter where it is, you get the samey handful of wildly different people that all tick the must-have gender and racial boxes. Its hard to unsee once you see it. And are any of them good actors or nice to hear? Hell no, and even the rare few that are, have been pushed into such a shitty script that they can't make anything out of it anymore.

Every big release is managed into tasteless BS and you can clearly identify the stuff that was altered from original creative vision into it. But maybe after seeing so much of it, some have lost touch with what is truly good content and what is the same thirteen in a dozen junk. (Not you, per say.)

A very simple one. Battlefield V.
Apparently they took the top 4 fashion cues and ran with it, because fuck history.
Note how every team has a dude that chops trees and readies the BBQ. For good measure they also copied Aloy because Horizon was also a great game right, and if anything represents the emancipated self-conscious female, hey.! This chick climbs robots. In case you miss the reference, they even gave her a robotic leg.

And the other two? They could be you! A streamer's head, frail physiques but stern looks, heck they even added the headsets.



Let's see how other games manage. I mean surely they wouldn't...



Naahhh



Luckily the team at Apex is great at creating new original characters, like this one.



They forgot the bandana.



Exactly, this.

I call it the tyranny of stupidity. You're for or against me, bla bla. Tribalism, indeed. But saying something about it is not tribalism. Its a perspective that is grounded in simple gut feeling. The whole woke thing feels wrong, it feels the exact same as the eternal internet troll culture, from Pizzagate to Trumpism to the progressive missionaries on a mission to add every letter in the alphabet to LBGTXYZ, its all based on the power of the largely uneducated masses that jump from one idiocy into another so they never have to actually explain anything logically.

Screw them because plain and simple, their opinions are invalid and the rationale behind it is drenched in peer pressure and based on nothing, especially not any sort of historical context or awareness. Giving them audience is feeding stupid -and there is a whole social media world for them to generate that attention.


Synthesis is a lot of nothing ;) An empty shell. It could work, but its fake.
Art and creativity thrive on and with friction. It needs to be exciting to work. Inspire something. Its almost inherent to art that someone somewhere is going to be offended, forgotten, etc.
In the same way it might not actually be good for us to try and find agreement in these things, or most things?

In your rant you missed the fact that those games are highly popular.

This is what companies like.

FergutorH!

Yeah, that was after the thread crapping had already commenced. And even then, I didn't identify any groups, they did that to themselves. Ironic really.

I should have clarified though, not just politics, the toxic waste that is American politics.

Why_MeThat's a lot of reading.

Reading good.

DeathtoGnomesI thought frogs loved hugging trees? Do you know how hard it is to hug a snowflake? Now be awesome and pass the popcorn.

(I willing decided not to contribute to this discussion, until the "shape of a snowflake!" came up. Hope intel doesnt ruin that too.)

Trees drink water. We live in ponds.

R-T-BYes, but it's unavoidable due to the article.

Probably why a political discussion was unavoidable in a thread about a political topic.

Am I the only one that misses the good old days when you would avoid conversation about politics and religion outside of the appropriate circles?

Of all the problems in the black community, we are suppose to care about them having affordable access to hardware so they can play the latest games??

NihilusOf all the problems in the black community, we are suppose to care about them having affordable access to hardware so they can play the latest games??

P.C. bandwagon says Yes.

R-T-BYes, but it's unavoidable due to the article. And technically it shouldn't be, as it's really just demographics.

You should know that it isn't "just demographics" but 100% political moves to gain power, to an end.

R-T-BYeah, that was after the thread crapping had already commenced.

And how does that save you form the incoherence?!

R-T-BAnd even then, I didn't identify any groups, they did that to themselves. Ironic really.

?!?!
Who are you trying to convince with that?
On what adult does such sentence work?
You are basically saying you are doing what school children does: shouting some "insult" and when someone looks at you, you mock them...
Or the leftist version, shouting to you (well, I suspect you to me) "X" and whatever you say they respond "that's what an X would say".

You and the others clearly referred to the few people that already commented. You called them "certain groups". So what triggered you already happened. So what are you saying?

R-T-BI should have clarified though, not just politics, the toxic waste that is American politics.

Look at what you wrote above...I hope that with "the toxic waste that is American politics" you are not complaining, but rather being very proud of the achievement.

FergutorYou should know that it isn't "just demographics" but 100% political moves to gain power, to an end.

Good job, you just made a nice thing political. It didn't have to be that way.
It is just demographics if you leave your personal issues at the door.

FergutorWho are you trying to convince with that?

Anyone who actually reads my posts without a shitton of baggage.

You know what? I was right earlier. I'm done here. Have fun in your dumpster. I know it'll be never hard to find a fresh thing to hate.

The study results to seem obvious and show nothing new at all. But oh well, not my money spent.
As for the comments, I am absolutely not surprised, some of the stereotypes about gamers are true, sad as it is.

R-T-BGood job, you just made a nice thing political. It didn't have to be that way.

It is just demographics if you leave your personal issues at the door.

You first:
"Words like "diversity" trigger certain groups like none other. I mean it's rather amazing some days."
Then:
"Yes, lets bring politics into this thread, that's a grand idea..."
And then when I told this is politics: "Yes, but it's unavoidable due to the article. And technically it shouldn't be, as it's really just demographics."
Now you:
"Good job, you just made a nice thing political. It didn't have to be that way."

WTF!!?!?

And "nice thing"... Now neoracism (or simply racism), identitarianism, segregationism, sexism, division, civil unrest, pushing hate among groups, pushing murderous ideologies, defending terrorists and tyrants, pushing lies to no end, etc, etc, etc, because that's what your beloved woke people bring, are nice things?

Ok...
One of the many jokes about this:

R-T-BAnyone who actually reads my posts without a shitton of baggage.

You check your own baggage before talking about other's.

R-T-BYou know what? I was right earlier. I'm done here.

When you said one thing or when you contradicted that one? And then again and again? Or when you were just pointing fingers and then hiding them?

R-T-BHave fun in your dumpster. I know it'll be never hard to find a fresh thing to hate.

Aaah the projections...
Bye... :)

Fergutor"Words like "diversity" trigger certain groups like none other. I mean it's rather amazing some days."

This phrasing is inherently non confrontational if you don't self identify with it. I really don't get what's so hard for you to get about this.

It breaks your whole chain of complex claims that I accused you of anything at the start. The only people I accused of anything, painted targets on themselves, by taking offense to that statement and thus proving it true. It's like a teacher saying "kids, bullying is now banned in this class" and watching the class bully get enraged only to claim "the teacher started it by attacking me!!!"

No, she said don't bully. You painted the rest on yourself. No one even called you a bully, but now it's obvious.

It was just demographics before all the baggage you attatched to it. It was still demographics at the starting statement I made. It ceased to be demographics when you showed your true colors by taking offense to that nonconfrontational statement.

There really isn't a better "explain like I'm 5" way to phrase this. You accuse me of being influenced by twitter and reddit, but I don't even have a twitter and my reddit account is seldom used and has maybe 5 posts. This whole thing is full of obvious personal baggage.

I'd ask you to quit quoting me as future quotes will not be replied to. This is obviously not going anywhere.

FergutorAnd "nice thing"... Now neoracism (or simply racism), identitarianism, segregationism, sexism, division, civil unrest, pushing hate among groups, pushing murderous ideologies, defending terrorists and tyrants, pushing lies to no end, etc, etc, etc, because that's what your beloved woke people bring, are nice things?

They are imaginary projections from you onto a policy choice you aparently don't like. I'm glad you know so well what other people think though, you should take out a side job as a mind reader.

FergutorAaah the projections...

You think I hate? I do not hate. I pity. I furthermore can't speak for you, but my baggage is rather light. You speak as though you have quite a bit though... that's all I can go by.

dirtyferretAnd you as a consumer have every right to shove the product right back and refuse to purchase it.

Personally, I have no issue with what Intel said. It's corporate speak for "There is a large and under served community of women, people of color, the LGBTQIA+ and those with disabilities. They want to spend more money on games but are finding it hard to find games they like. If the game developers create more games for them, they will buy more gaming hardware, and we at intel can sell more chips! This will better serve our true customer...the stock holder."

As gamer, I've seen this community grow online and I'm surprised more developers are not addressing their desires. I have no problem welcoming more gamers into the community, the healthier it is the better for all us. If i feel a product is being manipulative or focused too much on politics, I'll vote with my wallet. That said If I have to sit through awful "romance" dialogue and cut scenes in games, I think women, people of color, the LGBTQIA+ and those with disabilities should have the option to suffer through it as well.

As long as you know where the numbers are coming from. Last years survey had 1/3rd come from the 14yr bracket. This year its been expanded to be even younger and include down to 10yrs. One can only imagine how the data collection from Twitch.TV and their socials was collected. Aside from the creepy-ness of looking through minors Twitch.TV and socials.

XzibitAs long as you know where the numbers are coming from. Last years survey had 1/3rd come from the 14yr bracket. This year its been expanded to be even younger and include down to 10yrs. One can only imagine how the data collection from Twitch.TV and their socials was collected. Aside from the creepy-ness of looking through minors Twitch.TV and socials.

Accessibility for the physically challenged, sure - but what else? Trying hard here to understand how people feel left out - OF A GAME, something that either comprises of puzzles, or putting you in the role of another person or being (role playing).

As a guy (who also has difficulty finding games they like) I've played a few hours of Control (which isn't great), but it doesn't even enter into my mind that I'm playing as a white-female character - the character is just a conduit for achieving the goals set out by the game designers. Likewise, I highly doubt most MMO players are playing human male or human female based on their real-life image - some will, sure. To that end, we acknowledge then, a great number of games allow the player to choose to be male, female and sometimes other races, then adjust build characteristics - color, weight etc., and I'm sure most of us aren't getting hung up on the fact when we can't. What's the point of putting a gender neutral character selection (outside of tokenism)? As a human, it's still mostly going to look either male or female... I say "it's", because it's a bunch of computer pixels!

So, how are women under-represented in games? I see hundreds of women playing puzzle games on the train every day - and obviously Tomb-raider, Control and MMO's all have female characters - or do women want different games?
Is it racist when a white character kills a character of color - or is it just a game?
What difference would it make if Lara Croft was a lesbian, black or an alien?
Is it unethical to have world vs Nazi games?
Is it wrong to customize your character as a over-skinny or over-weight female character for fear of offending others?
Does a man playing a woman in a game demonstrate a subconscious desire to be a woman?
My wife plays MMO's as male or female characters... Does that mean she subconsciously wants to be a man?

Where does it all end?

I've played several games with LBG friends and absolutely none of them wish they could have a rainbow armband, or have same gender or gender neutral relationships in a game. So what needs to change - and how does anyone, really feel left out?

The world is a strange place, when I can say to (some) people, I identify as a 17 year old Japanese female and they'll accept it - despite it being obviously untrue.

beedooAccessibility for the physically challenged, sure - but what else? Trying hard here to understand how people feel left out - OF A GAME, something that either comprises of puzzles, or putting you in the role of another person or being (role playing).

As a guy (who also has difficulty finding games they like) I've played a few hours of Control (which isn't great), but it doesn't even enter into my mind that I'm playing as a white-female character - the character is just a conduit for achieving the goals set out by the game designers. Likewise, I highly doubt most MMO players are playing human male or human female based on their real-life image - some will, sure. To that end, we acknowledge then, a great number of games allow the player to choose to be male, female and sometimes other races, then adjust build characteristics - color, weight etc., and I'm sure most of us aren't getting hung up on the fact when we can't. What's the point of putting a gender neutral character selection (outside of tokenism)? As a human, it's still mostly going to look either male or female... I say "it's", because it's a bunch of computer pixels!

So, how are women under-represented in games? I see hundreds of women playing puzzle games on the train every day - and obviously Tomb-raider, Control and MMO's all have female characters - or do women want different games?
Is it racist when a white character kills a character of color - or is it just a game?
What difference would it make if Lara Croft was a lesbian, black or an alien?
Is it unethical to have world vs Nazi games?
Is it wrong to customize your character as a over-skinny or over-weight female character for fear of offending others?
Does a man playing a woman in a game demonstrate a subconscious desire to be a woman?
My wife plays MMO's as male or female characters... Does that mean she subconsciously wants to be a man?

Where does it all end?

I've played several games with LBG friends and absolutely none of them wish they could have a rainbow armband, or have same gender or gender neutral relationships in a game. So what needs to change - and how does anyone, really feel left out?

The world is a strange place, when I can say to (some) people, I identify as a 17 year old Japanese female and they'll accept it - despite it being obviously untrue

I prefer a good story myself. I never felt the need to play as a person that reflects myself.

I was commenting on Intels presentation to fit their message. 1) No kidding if you get data from minors they find it hard to buy games because guess what they cost money and a good portion of those surveyed are under or borderline of age to work depending on the state which they were surveyed.

Are they really doing a service or just molding it for their benefit at the expense of the underserved.

XzibitAre they really doing a service or just molding it for their benefit at the expense of the underserved.

It's a political statement put out by marketing to appease the #metoo crowd.

It's the media that is pushing Political Correctness to disturbing levels. Intel is late to the game. I will give one example. LGBT issues are blown out of proportion. In a USA Gallup Poll 4.5% of the people polled said they were LGBT.

64KIt's the media that is pushing Political Correctness to disturbing levels. Intel is late to the game. I will give one example. LGBT issues are blown out of proportion. In a USA Gallup Poll 4.5% of the people polled said they were LGBT.

Intel has had a D&I since 2015. They pat themselves on the back when they restarted the Arizona factory that boosted their Latin inclusion. Its like they forgot they shut it down so they celebrate when they bring it back on and boast about it.

damn just 4 pages of people getting triggered by survey results lol

Can we please keep the games away of the American's retarded "political correctness" ? Adding diversity in games it's always good and most welcome, but when adding too much just for the sake of it, it's becoming grotesques and pointless. Just look what Hollywood did with their movies and TV shows....

dirtyferretAnd you as a consumer have every right to shove the product right back and refuse to purchase it.

Personally, I have no issue with what Intel said. It's corporate speak for "There is a large and under served community of women, people of color, the LGBTQIA+ and those with disabilities. They want to spend more money on games but are finding it hard to find games they like. If the game developers create more games for them, they will buy more gaming hardware, and we at intel can sell more chips! This will better serve our true customer...the stock holder."

As gamer, I've seen this community grow online and I'm surprised more developers are not addressing their desires. I have no problem welcoming more gamers into the community, the healthier it is the better for all us. If i feel a product is being manipulative or focused too much on politics, I'll vote with my wallet. That said If I have to sit through awful "romance" dialogue and cut scenes in games, I think women, people of color, the LGBTQIA+ and those with disabilities should have the option to suffer through it as well.

Maybe there numbers are not enough to do so ?, but dam i glad our kids are all grown up now as this sex\gay\lesbian crap is going be pushed though games even more soon.

Kids should not be learning this shit from games and tv and such. In fact they are kids they needs a kids life not more hassles of what be coming and trying to understand which is way over their heads.

beedooThe world is a strange place, when I can say to (some) people, I identify as a 17 year old Japanese female and they'll accept it - despite it being obviously untrue.

So this is your first day on the internet?

AsRockKids should not be learning this shit from games and tv and such.

It's up to the parents to teach tolerance. If games and TV programs want to include LGBTQIA+, that's fine with me and if they don't that's fine too. No one says you must consume certain media and at the end of the day profit will always win out with media.