Anyone else find it strange when people lament AMD not being a value/budget company anymore and then turn around and demand they offer better performance? It's either a Value product or a performance product it can't be both. I'm still amazed by how many people were crying over the $50 Zen3 increase.... It offered a 20% IPC increase, took the performance crown and asked for $50 more... Is that really that big a deal considering that prior to Zen, Intel was offering 5% or less performance increases generation over generation and still charging more for fewer cores? The only way I see that complaining justified is if there was previously a precedent set where 20% performance increases and steady MSRP was the norm.... Was that the case previous to Zen3?

Also, I could be wrong, but wasn't the GTX 970 $320 at launch? I believe someone said previously in these comments that $350 for a midrange card is ludicrous and implied it was without historical precedent, when it seems to me that isn't completely the case? Don't get me wrong, I, just like everyone else, wish a 6800XT cost $500 or less, but the way I see it is, Nvidia set the pricing trend and AMD is following suit... Can AMD really be blamed for that? Did anybody really think that AMD would offer the 6900xt with 1080p raster performance faster than a 3090 on average at $700 when a 3090 is $1500 MSRP? Yeah, that'd be awesome, but AMD has zero incentive to do that and probably can't afford to when they're fighting Intel (who has an R&D budget literally 650% greater than AMD) AND Nvidia (Who has a $3.9 Billion R&D budget vs $1.98 Billion for AMD which AMD has to split between CPU and GPU where Nvidia has a single focus).

As for those claiming that abstaining from purchasing GPUs at current MSRP will force Nvidia/AMD to lower prices, this is hypothetically possible, but unfortunately in a world with class divisions and an upper class ready and willing to pay exorbitant prices, this effort will always be sabotaged... It's doubtful therefore, that there's any real power in consumerist choices.

The best potential for lowering prices is if AMD becomes even more competitive over the next generation and Intel offers a compelling product, though both of these are far less desirable than a wholly brand new GPU designer!/manufacturer entering the market as any success Intel has in the GPU market threatens to only empower them more in the CPU market and thus threaten AMD as their only competition... This is why Nvidia purchasing ARM is a bad thing for consumers as well.... Conglomerates, with respect to the totality of their consequences, will always be bad for consumers.

Xex360The root of the problem is limited supply nothing else (miners just make it worse), AMD or Nvidia can't do anything about it? They can't just magically make more cards.
Your solution basically makes steam members the new scalpers.

no it doesn't... if someone has at least 250+ games they clearly enjoy gaming... which is what the cards are meant for...

ChomiqYou're forgetting about multiple steam accounts used on same PC in an internet cafe.

that's a small number of niche accounts. and it would still be tied to 1 card per steam account with at least 250 games - and most internet cafes only have a few accounts really, so it wouldn't hurt really.

also this would just be the initial rollout. not permanent. to help get cards to gamers.

AnarchoPrimitivAnyone else find it strange when people lament AMD not being a value/budget company anymore and then turn around and demand they offer better performance? It's either a Value product or a performance product it can't be both. I'm still amazed by how many people were crying over the $50 Zen3 increase.... It offered a 20% IPC increase, took the performance crown and asked for $50 more... Is that really that big a deal considering that prior to Zen, Intel was offering 5% or less performance increases generation over generation and still charging more for fewer cores? The only way I see that complaining justified is if there was previously a precedent set where 20% performance increases and steady MSRP was the norm.... Was that the case previous to Zen3?

Also, I could be wrong, but wasn't the GTX 970 $320 at launch? I believe someone said previously in these comments that $350 for a midrange card is ludicrous and implied it was without historical precedent, when it seems to me that isn't completely the case? Don't get me wrong, I, just like everyone else, wish a 6800XT cost $500 or less, but the way I see it is, Nvidia set the pricing trend and AMD is following suit... Can AMD really be blamed for that? Did anybody really think that AMD would offer the 6900xt with 1080p raster performance faster than a 3090 on average at $700 when a 3090 is $1500 MSRP? Yeah, that'd be awesome, but AMD has zero incentive to do that and probably can't afford to when they're fighting Intel (who has an R&D budget literally 650% greater than AMD) AND Nvidia (Who has a $3.9 Billion R&D budget vs $1.98 Billion for AMD which AMD has to split between CPU and GPU where Nvidia has a single focus).

As for those claiming that abstaining from purchasing GPUs at current MSRP will force Nvidia/AMD to lower prices, this is hypothetically possible, but unfortunately in a world with class divisions and an upper class ready and willing to pay exorbitant prices, this effort will always be sabotaged... It's doubtful therefore, that there's any real power in consumerist choices.

The best potential for lowering prices is if AMD becomes even more competitive over the next generation and Intel offers a compelling product, though both of these are far less desirable than a wholly brand new GPU designer!/manufacturer entering the market as any success Intel has in the GPU market threatens to only empower them more in the CPU market and thus threaten AMD as their only competition... This is why Nvidia purchasing ARM is a bad thing for consumers as well.... Conglomerates, with respect to the totality of their consequences, will always be bad for consumers.

That's taking the issue a bit out of context.

The issue here is not JUST that AMD is charging $350 for the 6600xt. The issue is that AMD is charging $350 for the 6600xt, which is quite likely to offer the same performance as the 5700, a card that retailed for $349 two years ago. That card was 90% faster then the RX 480, which retailed for $200 back in 2016. The performance per dollar change here over 5 years is ABYSMAL. For reference, the 480 came out 4 years after the 7870, a $350 card, and while direct comparisons are difficult to find there are multiple youtube channels that have done comparisons, showing the 480 was between 50-90% faster depending on the title.

So we went from a 50-90% perf increase at half the price of the previous card (r9 270 is the same card) to 90% faster then the previous card to the previous card for 75% MORE money. See the issue here?

When nvidia did the same thing with turing, the community was not happy at all, many calling turing a total waste of money.

I agree the idea a mid range card should cost $200 is a new idea, the 7000 series was nowhere near that price. The price of polaris was influenced by AMD's terrible market performance at the time and polaris' inability to match nvidia's perf/watt following GCN's inability to compete with maxwell in perf/watt.

TheinsanegamerNThat's taking the issue a bit out of context.

The issue here is not JUST that AMD is charging $350 for the 6600xt. The issue is that AMD is charging $350 for the 6600xt, which is quite likely to offer the same performance as the 5700, a card that retailed for $349 two years ago. That card was 90% faster then the RX 480, which retailed for $200 back in 2016. The performance per dollar change here over 5 years is ABYSMAL. For reference, the 480 came out 4 years after the 7870, a $350 card, and while direct comparisons are difficult to find there are multiple youtube channels that have done comparisons, showing the 480 was between 50-90% faster depending on the title.

So we went from a 50-90% perf increase at half the price of the previous card (r9 270 is the same card) to 90% faster then the previous card to the previous card for 75% MORE money. See the issue here?

When nvidia did the same thing with turing, the community was not happy at all, many calling turing a total waste of money.

I agree the idea a mid range card should cost $200 is a new idea, the 7000 series was nowhere near that price. The price of polaris was influenced by AMD's terrible market performance at the time and polaris' inability to match nvidia's perf/watt following GCN's inability to compete with maxwell in perf/watt.

This.
Also RX 5600 XT debuted at $280, now 6600 XT $350??, that's a 25% increase in price for 22% more perf? lol, we're going backwards. This GPU is useless above $300.

PD: i know it's going to fly of the shelves.

N3M3515This.
Also RX 5600 XT debuted at $280, now 6600 XT $350??, that's a 25% increase in price for 22% more perf? lol, we're going backwards. This GPU is useless above $300.

PD: i know it's going to fly of the shelves.

even going to the grocery store lately, everything is more expensive. its crazy.

An alternative would be to increase your build budget. If you already have one in place, keep it in savings and add to it; wait for the next gen so you can get a better value. The idea of not buying to lower prices is nice, but unrealistic. There are other factors though. Are the games being made today REALLY worth the hardware upgrade and their price increases? This is something I'm contemplating over a new build.

Fouquin+$500 scalper tax.

Card manufacturers solved the scalper problem by becoming scalpers them selves selling at double the MSRP.
Both AMD and NVIDIA are making a killing only ones affected are the customers.
The "shortage" is good excuse to quadruple their profit per card and save on cost at the same time.

lynx29even going to the grocery store lately, everything is more expensive. its crazy.

Yep, grocery store prices have gone up on average, for me, roughly 25% in the past 18 months. Every $100 I used to spend, I now spend around $120.

TheinsanegamerNGamers have proven, time and time again, that they are willing to spread their wallet WIDE to play their vidya.

You know, that's how things get spread around, Covid-19, and now NVidia Chlamydia-21.

neatfeatguyYep, grocery store prices have gone up on average, for me, roughly 25% in the past 18 months. Every $100 I used to spend, I now spend around $120.

Spoiler

I normally plan out half a dozen meals (ones you can have left overs for a day or two), along with everything else and I tend to visit the grocery store every 12 days on average. It's 4 of us, two young kids (13 and 8) and two adults. I usually spend around $240 a visit to the grocery store on average.

365 days in the year. Every 12 days on average = 30 trips, minimum to the grocery store every year.
It was approximately $200 every trip = $6000 a year
Now it's approximately $240 every trip = $7200 a year

In the last year I received about a $0.50 pay raise. This equates to $1040 yearly pay increase
In the last year my health insurance increased a total of $960.
I'm making a whole $80 (pre tax) more this year over last year.

Once Trump left office and Biden stepped in, gas prices went up $0.25 a gallon. Gas used to be (at the time, $2.00 per gallon)
I don't have to drive far to work so I fill up every 14 days. Roughly $30 to fill the tank on my car at $2.00 a gallon.
Once gas went up, it cost $33.75.
With the gas costs having gone up and grocery prices having gone up and my health insurance having gone up and my pay increase only slightly getting a bump...that extra $80 I would have made at the end of the year was already spent on gas and food in the first month.

Now with gas at $3.00 a gallon and grocery prices still up and costing me roughly an extra $1200 a year, I'm looking to be at least $1600 poorer at the end of this year compared to where I was last year.

I had birthday/christmas money squirreled away for a new GPU, but with them being so hard to find and the prices jumping, I couldn't afford anything more than a 3060, so I settled for it because my aging 980Ti was having high, random fan spin ups. Here's hoping this card lasts me until I can upgrade again 3/4/5 years down the road or until maybe I don't care about PC gaming anymore.... The way I see it, things are going up and up and up in price and wages aren't, so I don't really plan on trying to keep up with my hobby since my money keeps going everywhere else except in my bank account.

yep its only going to get worse as climate change disrupts supply chains too. I'm lucky i have a big back yard. my next goal is to get a 9 foot privacy fence all around it. and start growing my own veggies. I might even try my hand at vertical farming someday to double my backyard (which is already big) landmass.

These only require one 8 pin right?

LOL the pricing. Good to see AMD is no better than Nvidia or Intel really.

Frankly, it's not the class of card where you care about ray-tracing anything. It's not like the 3060 produces any decent framerates with RT on.

TheOne$1700 from Newegg is still a $700 markup from the $1000 MSRP, the fact that they are all still instock is hopefully a reassuring sign that the market is slowly returning to normalcy.

$1000 is MSRP for reference designs, AIB designs were supposed to be much higher and for those designs price gouging is not as bad as it was few months back.

Chaitanya$1000 is MSRP for reference designs, AIB designs were supposed to be much higher and for those designs price gouging is not as bad as it was few months back.

Usually by about what 20-30%>, not 70%<, but like I said they can't even seem to sell them for that, so it's definitely looking better and hopefully it will continue in that direction. Though like others I do worry about the next generations, last time this happened Nvidia upped the price on the 20 series, though they were probably going to do that anyway.

TheOneUsually by about what 20-30%>, not 70%<, but like I said they can't even seem to sell them for that, so it's definitely looking better and hopefully it will continue in that direction. Though like others I do worry about the next generations, last time this happened Nvidia upped the price on the 20 series, though they were probably going to do that anyway.

This time around its multiple levels(manufacturers and retailers alike) of greed at work which has spiked the prices just as badly as scalpers. Sapphire 6700xt nitro came at price of $750 compared to msrp of $479. Same story with all AIB and their respective SKUs. prices set well beyond manufacturer suggest mrps.