Monday, January 10th 2022

AMD Wanting to Time Launch of AM5 Platform with DDR5 Availability

It would seem that AMD is concerned about DDR5 memory availability in the market, at least based on an interview that Tom's Hardware had with David McAfee, the Corporate VP and GM of the Client Channel business at AMD. It's not just about availability it seems, but also pricing, as McAfee is quoted saying "One of the dynamics that we do think about a great deal is how and when to introduce that AM5 ecosystem and ensure that the DDR5 supply, as well as pricing of DDR5 memory, is mature and something that's easily attainable for an end-user".

With the current issues that the DRAM module makers are experiencing, with both staff issues related to the pandemic and the PMIC shortage some are having, the question is how long it'll take until there's a steady supply of DDR5 modules in the market, at a reasonable price point. We obviously don't know what kind of DRAM speeds AMD is aiming for either, although it's unlikely that the company is looking at something faster than JEDEC spec at this point in time, even though we expect faster speeds will also be supported. Outside of the US, it seems like a cheap stick of 8 GB of DDR5 memory is going for around the US$100 mark (€89) or roughly four times that of a similar DDR4 stick. Crucial in the US is offering a single 8 GB stick for US$68, with a 16 GB stick costing the same as a pair of 8 GB sticks, US$137. This is unlikely to be the kind of price point AMD is hoping for and most DDR5 memory modules are a lot more expensive.
McAfee continues "And so there may be other forces beyond the product itself that slow down or meter the introduction of APUs into that AM5 socket. You know, we do expect that to be an enthusiast-first introduction. And I think we're going to have to watch very carefully just how the DDR5 transition takes place and how quickly both supply and prices come in line to make it more affordable for a mainstream consumer that might be more interested in making a product in that socket." Although APUs are expected to gain more from the increased memory performance of DDR5 than CPUs, due to the integrated GPU getting more bandwidth compared to when paired with DDR4 memory, it looks like they might take longer to make an appearance than in the past from AMD, if DDR5 pricing and availability isn't right.

However, unlike Intel's Alder Lake, it doesn't seem like AMD's AM5 platform has an option to use DDR4 memory, which could be the achilles heel for the platform as a whole. Likewise, the Ryzen 6000 series of mobile APUs might also end up suffering, although AMD claims that its partners are "well-positioned" when it comes to supply of DDR5 and LPDDR5 for mobile products. Time will tell how things play out, but it looks like AMD might have painted itself into a corner, if supply and pricing doesn't improve in the next six to 12 months.
Source: Tom's Hardware
Add your own comment

109 Comments on AMD Wanting to Time Launch of AM5 Platform with DDR5 Availability

#1
Fouquin
Could you please link sources within the article? Thanks.
Posted on Reply
#2
noel_fs
thats the price ddr4 was a few years ago so this is a load a bullshit, i rather spend extra on a new platform thats gonna be more future proof than having no other option to buy an outdated platform
Posted on Reply
#3
Tigger
I'm the only one
I heard of people buying ADL DDR5 boards and end up having to sell it to get a DDR4 ADL board. Hopefully The DDR5 situation will be better by the time they "hope" to release the AM5 platform though there is no guarantee. I don't regret getting a DDR4 board for my ADL at all, can always switch later if it's viable.
Posted on Reply
#4
Testsubject01
AMD claims that its partners are "well-positioned" when it comes to supply of DDR5 and LPDDR5 for mobile products. Time will tell how things play out, but it looks like AMD might have painted itself into a corner, if supply and pricing doesn't improve in the next six to 12 months.
I hope, AMD plans to open foundries to shell out memory and other micro electronic components. The current industry jumped on the opportunity to reset market pricing globally with the epidemic, transport problems and temporary supply shortages. They will do jack shit to work towards a saturated market or even a slight oversupply anytime soon.

On the other hand: Yeah! They keep progress rolling! :D
Posted on Reply
#5
damric
Well AMD is dropping the ball this time around by not having a memory controller that use both DDR4 and DDR5. Intel got it right, but I'm not buying my Uncle Pat's stuff either because big little is weird and I don't want Windows 11 yet.

AMD had it right with backwards RAM capability on AM2+/AM3, but I guess those old Athlon 64 guys don't work there anymore.
Posted on Reply
#6
InVasMani
They should just give one final hoorah to AM4 socket with another node shrink for DDR4 IMC capable CPU. That or make a new AM5 CPU that support DDR4 in the meanwhile and might extend to another node shrink later for DDR4. It would help with the supply problem and allow them to release the DDR5 based AM5 CPU sooner holding onto them isn't going to do them much good it just allows Intel time to catch up.
Posted on Reply
#7
Why_Me
noel_fsthats the price ddr4 was a few years ago so this is a load a bullshit, i rather spend extra on a new platform thats gonna be more future proof than having no other option to buy an outdated platform
Alder Lake DDR4 boards are hot selling atm.
Posted on Reply
#8
Chrispy_
A wise decision I think.

If Intel didn't have such a shady history of anti-competitive market corruption, I'd feel pity for them, but as it is they've invested a lot into early DDR5 and it's crap. Speeds are not yet that much faster than affordable mainstream DDR4 and the latency is horrendous, coupled with the penalty of running Gear2. If you could even buy it, it would be offer abysmal performance/$

I'm thinking that the 5800X3D may well retake the crown so AMD can wait for DDR5 yields to improve, speeds to distance themselves from DDR4 and prices to come down.
Posted on Reply
#9
trsttte
It's quite unfortunate that Rembrandt will not release on AM4 at all. Oh well...

Anyway, they're saying now that it'll be DDR5 only but if the current situation continues I doubt they'll let the platform die on that hill. We don't even really know (or have a way to know) that the memory controller is DDR5 only, it would be smart for them to hedge their bets with a controller that supports both memory types so time will tell. Current plan is DDR5 but time will tell if that will be possible
Posted on Reply
#10
Chrispy_
trsttteIt's quite unfortunate that Rembrandt will not release on AM4 at all. Oh well...

Anyway, they're saying now that it'll be DDR5 only but if the current situation continues I doubt they'll let the platform die on that hill. We don't even really know (or have a way to know) that the memory controller is DDR5 only, it would be smart for them to hedge their bets with a controller that supports both memory types so time will tell. Current plan is DDR5 but time will tell if that will be possible
Rembrandt isn't DDR5, it's LPDDR5 which (despite the name) is closer to DDR4 in technology and specification. Unlike DDR5 which is 64-bit per channel, LPDDR5 retains the 32-bit per channel of DDR4 and LPDDR4.

I don't know if LPDDR5 is suffering the same shortages as DDR5 is, but I hope not because Rembrandt laptop APUs are probably the technology I'm most looking forward to in 2022; I want a 6000-series Ryzen ultraportable that can do in 15-25W what Tiger Lake and an MX450 needed 70-80W to do.
Posted on Reply
#11
mama
DDR5 situation in Australia at least slightly better with price and availability.
Posted on Reply
#12
Tigger
I'm the only one
It shows how clever Intel was giving ADL a DDR4 and 5 memory controller, Seems AMD should have done the same. Look forward to tons of cheap DDR4 for sale.
Posted on Reply
#13
trsttte
Chrispy_Rembrandt isn't DDR5, it's LPDDR5 which (despite the name) is closer to DDR4 in technology and specification. Unlike DDR5 which is 64-bit per channel, LPDDR5 retains the 32-bit per channel of DDR4 and LPDDR4.

I don't know if LPDDR5 is suffering the same shortages as DDR5 is, but I hope not because Rembrandt laptop APUs are probably the technology I'm most looking forward to in 2022; I want a 6000-series Ryzen ultraportable that can do in 15-25W what Tiger Lake and an MX450 needed 70-80W to do.
First, a couple of corrections, rembrandt is both DDR5 and LPDDR5[*] and DDR5 uses the same 64-bit channels as DDR4 (but divides the 64bit channel into 2x32bit sub channels per dimm). LPDDR5 uses 2x16bit per "dimm"/channel (no dimms with lpddr, always sodered) just like LPDDR4 did.

Now LPDDR5 certainly won't suffer the same shortages as DDR5 because, at least from what has been reported, the shortage is mostly caused by the power delivery ICs necessary for DDR5, that's not a problem with laptops (I'm not sure if sodimm DDR5 has on dimm power or uses the supply from the laptop mainboard).
Posted on Reply
#14
Tigger
I'm the only one
trsttteFirst, a couple of corrections, rembrandt is both DDR5 and LPDDR5[*] and DDR5 uses the same 64-bit channels as DDR4 (but divides the 64bit channel into 2x32bit sub channels per dimm). LPDDR5 uses 2x16bit per "dimm"/channel (no dimms with lpddr, always sodered) just like LPDDR4 did.

Now LPDDR5 certainly won't suffer the same shortages as DDR5 because, at least from what has been reported, the shortage is mostly caused by the power delivery ICs necessary for DDR5, that's not a problem with laptops (I'm not sure if sodimm DDR5 has on dimm power or uses the supply from the laptop mainboard).
According to this, it seems SODIMM DDR5 does have the on DIMM power management IC. "Furthermore, keeping in mind that ongoing shortages of DDR5 DIMMs are caused by the short supply of power management ICs (PMICs), once notebooks with DDR5 hit the market, those shortages will worsen." Which doesn't bode well for AMD
www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/ddr5-memory-modules-available-in-japan
Edit here is a pic, does seem to have a pmic on it
Posted on Reply
#15
trsttte
TiggerAccording to this, it seems SODIMM DDR5 does have the on DIMM power management IC. "Furthermore, keeping in mind that ongoing shortages of DDR5 DIMMs are caused by the short supply of power management ICs (PMICs), once notebooks with DDR5 hit the market, those shortages will worsen." Which doesn't bode well for AMD
www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/ddr5-memory-modules-available-in-japan
Expect mostly non upgradable LPDDR5 laptops for now then :(
Posted on Reply
#16
tussinman
Been itchin to upgrade my overclocked i7 3770k but at the same time I was kinda hoping I could skip DDR4 and go straight to DDR5.

Monitor is only 75hz and even if I got a new monitor it's not like I could pair a new CPU with a new GPU since there impossible to find.

Might just ride it out till the end of the year and see if AMD and Intels new chips line up with at least entry level DDR5
Posted on Reply
#17
bug
TiggerIt shows how clever Intel was giving ADL a DDR4 and 5 memory controller, Seems AMD should have done the same. Look forward to tons of cheap DDR4 for sale.
That's not an option if they want to reuse AM5. It's not smart to burden the socket with DDR4 pins just because DDR5 is initially hard to get.

The smart thing to do here would be to release one more round for AM4, but since it's too late for that, they're just easing us into a delay instead. It's not a big deal, AM3+ still holds its own, but they'll probably miss the profitable holiday season '22.
Posted on Reply
#18
dicobalt
Not till 2024 when most manufacturers have their new fabs come online.
Posted on Reply
#19
Tigger
I'm the only one
bugThat's not an option if they want to reuse AM5. It's not smart to burden the socket with DDR4 pins just because DDR5 is initially hard to get.

The smart thing to do here would be to release one more round for AM4, but since it's too late for that, they're just easing us into a delay instead. It's not a big deal, AM3+ still holds its own, but they'll probably miss the profitable holiday season '22.
It doesn't seem to have done ADL much harm, there's no reason AMD couldn't have done it, and gives people a chance to reuse the possibly expensive DDR4 they have before shelling out for possibly expensive DDR5. If DDR5 is still not very cheap or easy to get hold of, it will bite AMD in the ass. Imagine if Intel had made ADL DDR5 only.
Posted on Reply
#20
Chrispy_
bugThat's not an option if they want to reuse AM5. It's not smart to burden the socket with DDR4 pins just because DDR5 is initially hard to get.

The smart thing to do here would be to release one more round for AM4, but since it's too late for that, they're just easing us into a delay instead. It's not a big deal, AM3+ still holds its own, but they'll probably miss the profitable holiday season '22.
If AMD is deciding to delay AM5 because of DDR5 supply problems, perhaps they have time to get some more 3D vCache models to include more than just the 5800X3D?
Posted on Reply
#21
R0H1T
TiggerIt doesn't seem to have done ADL much harm,
The only reason Intel seems to have done is because they're lagging AMD at least in the "mindshare" dept & possibly in the DIY category as well.
TiggerAMD couldn't have done it, and gives people a chance to reuse the possibly expensive DDR4
Umm what :wtf:
TiggerIf DDR5 is still not very cheap or easy to get hold of, it will bite AMD in the ass.
I'm betting no.
TiggerImagine if Intel had made ADL DDR5 only.
They'd be selling far less ADL as simple as that.
Posted on Reply
#22
SLObinger
I think AMD is being smart with releasing only the 5800 in 3D flavor for spring. If DDR5 is still constrained then can make a call to launch the full line with the 3D cash on DDR4. Seems they are planning for it actually.
Posted on Reply
#23
Crackong
The writer can't even distinguish the difference between DDR5 and LPDDR5
Posted on Reply
#24
Tigger
I'm the only one
R0H1TThe only reason Intel seems to have done is because they're lagging AMD at least in the "mindshare" dept & possibly in the DIY category as well.
Umm what :wtf:

Notice i did say POSSIBLY expensive DDR4, mine was £209, which is not exactly cheap.

Why would it not bite AMD in the ass if when they release AM5 as DDR5 only and DDR5 is still very expensive and scarse? explain to me rather than just making foolish comments.

Did you actually read this-
It would seem that AMD is concerned about DDR5 memory availability in the market, at least based on an interview that Tom's Hardware had with David McAfee, the Corporate VP and GM of the Client Channel business at AMD. It's not just about availability it seems, but also pricing, as McAfee is quoted saying "One of the dynamics that we do think about a great deal is how and when to introduce that AM5 ecosystem and ensure that the DDR5 supply, as well as pricing of DDR5 memory, is mature and something that's easily attainable for an end-user".
Which was the whole point of my post.

Make sense when you are going to criticize somebody, your whole post smells of crap.

Ignored from now on, don't need to read crap
Posted on Reply
#25
R0H1T
TiggerWhy would it not bite AMD in the ass if when they release AM5 as DDR5 only and DDR5
Because they have DDR4 & AM4 for about 4 gens of users potentially upgrading to *3d Vcache processors. They don't really need to have DDR4 support on AM5, I'm also guessing with IF (revisions) it's best they go with DDR5 & leave the older slower tech for a "lesser" platform!
www.techpowerup.com/290674/amd-explores-adding-ryzen-5000-series-support-to-300-series-chipsets
Do you have an Intel equivalent ~ oh wait they change sockets more frequently than I do socks :slap:
TiggerMake sense when you are going to criticize somebody, your whole post smells of crap.
Based on what exactly? You haven't presented any arguments yourself :rolleyes:

Just that this will be cheaper, that will be better so on & so forth ~ you haven't said anything (technical) supporting your arguments besides the pricing thing! And DDR5 availability is only going to increase, substantially in fact.
www.techpowerup.com/289911/sk-hynix-becomes-the-industrys-first-to-ship-24gb-ddr5-samples
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment