Bomby569What are you doing man. So when Nvidia put those prices they were crazy, now if AMD used the same prices to overcharge it's ok? that doesn't seem right.
It's a almost 3 year old card that should never have costed 1200$ and everyone agreed on that back then.

What prices does Nvidia put? Same price on the 5080 as they did on the 4080 Super? A 50-buck discount on the 5070 Ti vs the 4070 Ti and Ti Super? Which one is supposed to amaze me?

Bomby569What are you doing man. So when Nvidia put those prices they were crazy, now if AMD used the same prices to overcharge it's ok? that doesn't seem right.
It's a almost 3 year old card that should never have costed 1200$ and everyone agreed on that back then.

For me at least I'm looking at the 4070ti super people could have bought that card a year ago for 800 usd what do these cards offer over it a whole year later.

In the case of the 5070ti not much while probably costing most people a decent chunk of change more now AMD is up to the plate.

MSRP is $600 for the XT. Is that price right for you folks?

JohHMSRP is $600 for the XT. Is that price right for you folks?

Who said that? Where? If it's true, sign me up.

JohHMSRP is $600 for the XT. Is that price right for you folks?

Nope, $549 to maintain status quo of losing market share. $399 to gain customers.

At $600 they should just get out of GPU business as that will give Nvidia 95% market share.

Visible NoiseNope, $549 to maintain status quo of losing market share. $399 to gain customers.

Delusional. The lower the price the less AMD can justify making N48. Can't gain market share when Instinct then takes all your wafers.

Anyone wanting AMD to get out of the gpu business over $50 is absolutely delusional. AMD would be losing on every card sold at $400 for the XT.
But even if the cards are good, I expect the Nvidia Defense Force to say "RDOA4" and "Another Massive Disappointment" tomorrow.

AusWolfWhat prices does Nvidia put? Same price on the 5080 as they did on the 4080 Super? A 50-buck discount on the 5070 Ti vs the 4070 Ti and Ti Super? Which one is supposed to amaze me?

the answer is non of the above, the same one as AMD putting 700$ price tag on what is a 3 year old 4080 that should have cost 700$ 3 years ago.

JohHMSRP is $600 for the XT. Is that price right for you folks?

i don't think so. Like i said if it comes out as a 4080 on raster and RT, that card should now be overtaken by a 5060 and should cost no more than 500$
People are using double standards, when Nvidia overcharges and underdelivers in gen on gen it's bad, but when AMD used that to overcharge and underdeliver themselves is ok. That is idiotic

Bomby569the answer is non of the above, the same one as AMD putting 700$ price tag on what is a 3 year old 4080 that should have cost 700$ 3 years ago.

If it's really a 4080, that is, a 5080, then $700 means $300 (or 30%) lower than what Nvidia has.

If it's a 5070 Ti for $700, that's a different story.

Not long to see, let's be patient. :)

AusWolfIf it's really a 4080, that is, a 5080, then $700 means $300 (or 30%) lower than what Nvidia has.

If it's a 5070 Ti for $700, that's a different story.

Not long to see, let's be patient. :)

NO! JUST NO! what are you doing?

You're using the fact that nvidia did very little gen on gen improvement to justify the price on AMD. How is that not an immediate intellectual red flag?

Officer, sure i killed that person, but so did that other guy, and he tortured the victim first and more. You should lock him up and let me go. Logic!
:roll:

Bomby569NO! JUST NO! what are you doing?

You're using the fact that nvidia did very little gen on gen improvement to justify the price on AMD. How is that not an immediate intellectual red flag?

Officer, sure i killed that person, but so did that other guy, and he tortured the victim first and more. You should lock him up and let me go. Logic!
:roll:

4080 Super = 5080 = 7900 XTX = $1000. If we have the same performance for $700, that's clearly not an Nvidia stagnation move, is it? I don't know what intellectual red flag you're talking about.

AusWolf4080 Super = 5080 = 7900 XTX = $1000. If we have the same performance for $700, that's clearly not an Nvidia stagnation move, is it? I don't know what intellectual red flag you're talking about.

are we already at 4080 super territory? 4080 and probably that's being too optimistic, i doubt that. And i compare to the 4080 and not the 7900xtx because of RT, it should be a lot better i hope anyway, and surpass the 7900xtx on RT by a lot.

Bomby569are we already at 4080 super territory? 4080 and probably that's being too optimistic, i doubt that. And i compare to the 4080 and not the 7900xtx because of RT, it should be a lot better i hope anyway, and surpass the 7900xtx on RT by a lot.

The 4080 is a 4080 Super. C'mon, the difference between them going by the TPU database is 2%. Are you really going to pretend that such difference bears any significance?

AusWolfThe 4080 is a 4080 Super. C'mon, the difference between them going by the TPU database is 2%. Are you really going to pretend that such difference bears any significance?

i thought the difference was bigger, i stand corrected. But let's not use the price of the later more affordable card (over a year younger), I'm sure the 9070xt will also drop in price eventually
just trying to compare apples to apples

Bomby569But let's not use the price of the later more affordable card (over a year younger)

Why not? We should be getting better value than the last released card, not the one before, two gens before, or in 1998.

If you compare to the $1200 4080, then $700 would be insane value. But that doesn't make sense, does it?

Visible NoiseInstalled base is not market share.

It isn't.
But installed base dynamic is driven by market share.

Dr. DroIntriguing. Am I wrong because you desire a cheaper product, or because I said that if AMD releases a competent product, they are going to get a slice of the pie regardless of it being hyper affordable or not?

Thanks god AMD was not listening to people like you 650-700$ would be a massive fail for a RX 9070 XT.

KritThanks god AMD was not listening to people like you 650-700$ would be a massive fail for a RX 9070 XT.

AMD wasn't exactly listening to anybody, you know. They have market research teams to decide on their prices. $599 is good and was on my optimist range, $699 was the worst case scenario. When it comes to financial matters, here's the tip: always account for the worst case scenario and give it a little wiggle room. :)

Dr. DroAMD wasn't exactly listening to anybody, you know. They have market research teams to decide on their prices. $599 is good and was on my optimist range, $699 was the worst case scenario. When it comes to financial matters, here's the tip: always account for the worst case scenario and give it a little wiggle room. :)

Vs the msrp of the 5070ti it offers 23% better P/P assuming both ever hit msrp and performance claims are accurate that's what they've offered every generation so this isn't some major shift in strategy. It's about 3% better than what they've done in the past. Awesome.

Visible NoiseNope, $549 to maintain status quo of losing market share. $399 to gain customers.

At $600 they should just get out of GPU business as that will give Nvidia 95% market share.

Idk what you're smoking but I'd get off that shit before it scrambles your brain too much

Let's see the situation at Nvidia's :
- The MSRPs are jokes, performance uplift relative to RTX40 are mediocre at best, street prices are catastrophic
- They have issues plaguing this generation slamming them one after the other (that they could easily have avoided)
- Total disrespect of their AIBs, essentially using them as free production facilities, to hell with their own profit and to hell with the price they apply on them
- System integrators have put in place "yes you'll get full hardware specs" guarantee programs (how the fuck does that even happen ????)

Let's see the situation at AMD :
- 6 weeks late, actually spent that time doing something useful
- 70Ti competitor for almost 70 prices
- 70 competitor for 70 price (except the supply is already here and you won't have to play Russian roulette with your hardware specs)
- Hopefully better software, no blackscreens or botched PCIe5
- Unfortunately no MBA models but I guess that's fine as long as the AIBs understand it's time to play ball and try to align their prices with the MSRP

What makes you seriously think AMD should offer a 70Ti competitor at the price of a 60 ?
Nvidia destroyed their own image through both sloppiness and disgust of their own customer base and AMD swoops in, seemingly forgetting to miss an opportunity, with a card that, even if they buffed all their performance claims by x2 (which is a thing Nshittia is particularly fond off), still offer far better value than a 900$ maybe-88-ROP-edition or other unobtainium models.

The people who want AMD to sell the 70XT under 500 are completely either delusional, fools completely disconnected from reality with absolutely no notion of monetary value or moronic trolls/Nshittia shills.

HOWEVER, I do concede the non XT 70 would have been much more appealing at 480-500

TheGeekn°72Idk what you're smoking but I'd get off that shit before it scrambles your brain too much

Let's see the situation at Nvidia's :
- The MSRPs are jokes, performance uplift relative to RTX40 are mediocre at best, street prices are catastrophic
- They have issues plaguing this generation slamming them one after the other (that they could easily have avoided)
- Total disrespect of their AIBs, essentially using them as free production facilities, to hell with their own profit and to hell with the price they apply on them
- System integrators have put in place "yes you'll get full hardware specs" guarantee programs (how the fuck does that even happen ????)

Let's see the situation at AMD :
- 6 weeks late, actually spent that time doing something useful
- 70Ti competitor for almost 70 prices
- 70 competitor for 70 price (except the supply is already here and you won't have to play Russian roulette with your hardware specs)
- Hopefully better software, no blackscreens or botched PCIe5
- Unfortunately no MBA models but I guess that's fine as long as the AIBs understand it's time to play ball and try to align their prices with the MSRP

What makes you seriously think AMD should offer a 70Ti competitor at the price of a 60 ?
Nvidia destroyed their own image through both sloppiness and disgust of their own customer base and AMD swoops in, seemingly forgetting to miss an opportunity, with a card that, even if they buffed all their performance claims by x2 (which is a thing Nshittia is particularly fond off), still offer far better value than a 900$ maybe-88-ROP-edition or other unobtainium models.

The people who want AMD to sell the 70XT under 500 are completely either delusional, fools completely disconnected from reality with absolutely no notion of monetary value or moronic trolls/Nshittia shills.

HOWEVER, I do concede the non XT 70 would have been much more appealing at 480-500

While I agree with what you're trying to say (and this is from the perspective of someone who actually did order an RTX 5090 - you know, AMD doesn't exactly offer the level of performance I'm after with their new product), the whole "moronic trolls/Nshittia shills" rhetoric doesn't exactly paint you in a neutral light.

As negatively as you attempt to paint Nvidia (and they earned some of that), the stability issues with black screens were diagnosed and fixes were issued within the first two weeks and have expedited RMA for those affected by the ROP issue (which is a quality assurance problem). The whole "AIB disrespect" thing is just rhetoric from EVGA fanboys, and it remains the 9070 XT is still fundamentally incapable of conclusively beating both the RTX 4080 and its own predecessor, the 7900 XTX, all the while already including "hopefully" and making the preemptive assumption that stock supply for day one will be very healthy and everyone will get a card, which is... optimistic to say the least.

All I'm saying, AMD has a winning formula for this generation, but they don't have a high-end product, they have a competitive one at the performance segment, and that is if they actually manage to navigate through the fundamental issues that remain and also captivate the people who are apprehensive about the 50 series launch woes - this launch has been bad for Nvidia and it's an unguarded goal for AMD. All they have to do is kick.

I believe in their game plan, I was oddly satisfied by the press deck release, hopefully it won't disappoint in practice, as it certainly did not on paper.

oxrufiioxoVs the msrp of the 5070ti it offers 23% better P/P assuming both ever hit msrp and performance claims are accurate that's what they've offered every generation so this isn't some major shift in strategy. It's about 3% better than what they've done in the past. Awesome.

I mean, thought hadn't even crossed my mind, it's just that I tend to expect the worst when it comes to pricing. I actually estimated $2499 MSRP for the 5090, it ended up landing at $1999. Preparing for the worst case scenario allows you to plan your budget better and feel slightly less disappointed when you look at the crater such a purchase will leave in your bank account :)

Dr. DroI mean, thought hadn't even crossed my mind, it's just that I tend to expect the worst when it comes to pricing. I actually estimated $2499 MSRP for the 5090, it ended up landing at $1999. Preparing for the worst case scenario allows you to plan your budget better and feel slightly less disappointed when you look at the crater such a purchase will leave in your bank account :)

Assuming they hit on all 3 phases Raster, RT, and Upscaling honestly it will be fine especially in the short term but long term once all cards settle and are being supplied in adequate volume I'm not so sure the average Nvidia owner is going to look at this and be convinced to jump ship and that's what AMD needs to be doing the 10% of the market who buy's an AMD gpu anyways should not be their target market.

Still AMD has offered 20% ish better price to performance before and still has gotten crushed not sure why anyone is celebrating the same thing when it's vs in my opinion the worst Nvidia generation since GTX 400 series.

Only time will tell, if in a couple quarters they are still stuck at 10% market share I guess they are more than happy being a distant second which is a shame because it doesn't even seem like Nvidia is trying anymore.

Lets be real when was the last time Nvidia not only had driver issue, hardware issues, and availability issues all at the same time especially when basically using a mature node that's been around for almost 3 years on top of using a similar connector since the 3090ti was launched almost 3 years ago and had a better version of it....

Dr. DroAs negatively as you attempt to paint Nvidia (and they earned some of that), the stability issues with black screens were diagnosed and fixes were issued within the first two weeks and have expedited RMA for those affected by the ROP issue (which is a quality assurance problem). The whole "AIB disrespect" thing is just rhetoric from EVGA fanboys, and it remains the 9070 XT is still fundamentally incapable of conclusively beating both the RTX 4080 and its own predecessor, the 7900 XTX, all the while already including "hopefully" and making the preemptive assumption that stock supply for day one will be very healthy and everyone will get a card, which is... optimistic to say the least.

The 9070 XT is not a competitor to the 4080, and it's not the successor of the 7900 XTX. It's a competitor to the 4070 Ti (Super) / 5070 Ti and the successor of the 7900 GRE.

Dr. DroAll I'm saying, AMD has a winning formula for this generation, but they don't have a high-end product, they have a competitive one at the performance segment, and that is if they actually manage to navigate through the fundamental issues that remain and also captivate the people who are apprehensive about the 50 series launch woes - this launch has been bad for Nvidia and it's an unguarded goal for AMD. All they have to do is kick.

I believe in their game plan, I was oddly satisfied by the press deck release, hopefully it won't disappoint in practice, as it certainly did not on paper.

Not having a high-end product is not an issue for most people in my opinion. Other than that, you're right - they have to kick with actual product availability to avoid a shortage and scalping.

Dr. DroI mean, thought hadn't even crossed my mind, it's just that I tend to expect the worst when it comes to pricing. I actually estimated $2499 MSRP for the 5090, it ended up landing at $1999. Preparing for the worst case scenario allows you to plan your budget better and feel slightly less disappointed when you look at the crater such a purchase will leave in your bank account :)

Preparing for the worst is wise. You can always spend your remaining cash on a holiday or something else that's more useful than an overpriced GPU. :D

Dr. Drothe whole "moronic trolls/Nshittia shills" rhetoric doesn't exactly paint you in a neutral light.

There used to be a time where I was rooting for Nvidia, then I got much more neutral for a long while, up until RTX40 showed up where prices and other smaller troubles got me rather concerned and now RTX50 ? The amount of defects this series has had on launch made me think even AMD's worst launch wasn't *that* bad

When you're a 3T$ market cap company, how the hell do you justify so many fuck ups on the market you've been crushingly mastering over the past decade or so other than proving you're a shitty company ?

Dr. DroAs negatively as you attempt to paint Nvidia (and they earned some of that), the stability issues with black screens were diagnosed and fixes were issued within the first two weeks and have expedited RMA for those affected by the ROP issue (which is a quality assurance problem).

A 3T$ company that already went through several generations of different standards and is leading bleeding edge technology at unprecedented scales managed to fail PCIe5 implementation (despite already having it widely applied it to datacenter cards), has humongous R&D and budget for their software division manages to have blackscreen issues that require a vBIOS update and orders so many chips for datacenter and gaming that they *accidentally* get chips on sale with less hardware than advertised ? I'm especially not buying the last one, just like that one slide with the 5070=4090 (no asterisk, no fine print, no nothing) they perfectly knew what they were doing and just ditched the defective dies in production hoping it wouldn't get noticed or that people with them wouldn't want the hassle of RMA-ing them.

Dr. DroThe whole "AIB disrespect" thing is just rhetoric from EVGA fanboys

I don't know enough about that one particular point

Dr. DroAnd it remains the 9070 XT is still fundamentally incapable of conclusively beating both the RTX 4080 and its own predecessor, the 7900 XTX

Does it have to ? All we need it to do is deliver solid performance for an acceptable price, which Nvidia has completed disregarded altogether with RTX50, even when the 5070/60Ti/60 drops, I'm pretty sure 3-4 different things about them are going to make them look particularly mediocre and nuke Nvidia's image on the gaming/content creation market (at this point I'm not even sure Nvidia cares anymore and is looking for a pretext to only make AI accelerator card)

Dr. DroAll the while already including "hopefully" and making the preemptive assumption that stock supply for day one will be very healthy and everyone will get a card, which is... optimistic to say the least.

I mean, idk man, we've seen leaked retailers picture of existing stock since mid January in different countries so... :shrug:

Dr. DroAll I'm saying, AMD has a winning formula for this generation, but they don't have a high-end product, they have a competitive one at the performance segment, and that is if they actually manage to navigate through the fundamental issues that remain and also captivate the people who are apprehensive about the 50 series launch woes - this launch has been bad for Nvidia and it's an unguarded goal for AMD. All they have to do is kick.

Hopefully AMD comes back next gen with a Big Navi in UDNA... :P

Dr. DroI believe in their game plan, I was oddly satisfied by the press deck release, hopefully it won't disappoint in practice, as it certainly did not on paper.

See you on the 5th ?

TheGeekn°72When you're a 3T$ market cap company, how the hell do you justify so many fuck ups on the market you've been crushingly mastering over the past decade or so other than proving you're a shitty company ?

Nvidia can justify it because people will still buy cards anyway, and they've been a shitty company for years.

TheGeekn°72A 3T$ company that already went through several generations of different standards and is leading bleeding edge technology at unprecedented scales managed to fail PCIe5 implementation (despite already having it widely applied it to datacenter cards), has humongous R&D and budget for their software division manages to have blackscreen issues that require a vBIOS update and orders so many chips for datacenter and gaming that they *accidentally* get chips on sale with less hardware than advertised ? I'm especially not buying the last one, just like that one slide with the 5070=4090 (no asterisk, no fine print, no nothing) they perfectly knew what they were doing and just ditched the defective dies in production hoping it wouldn't get noticed or that people with them wouldn't want the hassle of RMA-ing them.

All of the issues Blackwell is going through are inexcusable, and Nvidia hasn't put out a public report on the missing ROPs so they're already getting a free pass for it, and for the power connectors still melting even though Nvidia claimed it was fixed.
The gaming market is only 10% of revenue for Nvidia, with "AI PC" included so who knows how much of it is gaming, or OEM sales. With the issues they're having with Blackwell it's obvious the budget is being shifted away from R&D and the gaming market. When AMD has bad drivers people reletenlessly condem them for it.

TheGeekn°72I don't know enough about that one particular point

A significant reason why EVGA stopped making GPUs is because they weren't making any margins with the 30 series, because Nvidia has been undercutting their own partners with the FE cards since the GTX 10 series.
In addition to that, Nvidia was making record profits off miners, and EVGA tried to do the right thing by selling GPU's closer to MSRP and lost money doing so. And I can only assume they seen it coming with the 40 series melting power connectors. Gamers Nexus has videos on why EVGA left the market, but geforce buyers still deny the leather jacket man having any blame on contributing to killing off the AIB with the best customer support.

TheGeekn°72Does it have to ? All we need it to do is deliver solid performance for an acceptable price, which Nvidia has completed disregarded altogether with RTX50, even when the 5070/60Ti/60 drops, I'm pretty sure 3-4 different things about them are going to make them look particularly mediocre and nuke Nvidia's image on the gaming/content creation market (at this point I'm not even sure Nvidia cares anymore and is looking for a pretext to only make AI accelerator card)

I agree, it doesn't have to, all the 9070XT needs to do is sell for MSRP, and if it sells for even close to MSRP, AMD has the chance to grab some sales away from Nvidia.

TheGeekn°72I mean, idk man, we've seen leaked retailers picture of existing stock since mid January in different countries so... :shrug:

AMD would've had to mess up really badly to not have plenty of stock ready for launch, but I guess we'll see.