"While OnlyFans continues to host real adult content, platforms like Itch.io and Steam are being pressured to remove fictional NSFW content" lol

Half of what's listed here makes me sick to my stomach, but it's a bad precedent to let corporations control what people buy through third parties.

How long will it be before they say that games like GTA can't exist, or that blood in games has to go, or that games can only be aired if they follow a checklist?

Soooo fucking over. Guess we're going back to the fucking patch days. Remember to support your devs guys.

Gonna have to find out where to buy Citadel from that isn't from these companies, fuck these people.

olymind1And ban books and writing while we're at it, because when fictional characters dies that is also illegal. :laugh:

The femslop book market is going to be in fucking SHAMBLES if they do that, it's the secret third rail they don't wanna talk about :laugh:

KrazyTYes, and you're right.
Not not everybody is adult, and when it comes to adult games, it's questionable.
On Steam, yesterday, 2 out of 10 most wanted (or most buyed, i don't remember) was "adult" (nice term for "p*rn", we are agreed here), with explicit trailer.
It's ok, as we are 18+, but even 18- can watch it.

I said to myself I wasn't going to engage in this thread but I can't help myself:

1. Parenting is your sole responsibility. It is not the government's or your family's, it is your sole responsibility as a father/mother/guardian to protect and guide your child.
2. If you are not responsible enough to raise a child, then take preemptive action to ensure you do not have one.
3. Parental controls are extensively available. Use them accordingly. Services are also provided to guide parents on how appropriate content may or may not be.

I'm not going to debate the morality or politics of it, not on this forum. But rest assured I have a lot to say, and almost none of it very nice. I have an obscenely strong opinion on this subject and nothing good ever comes out of it.

It is illegal overreach, plain and simple. These payment processors need to be smacked stupid with hefty fines for this egregious nonsense and either broken up or barred to prevent repeats.
They act out on people running gun shops. They threaten the lives and livelihoods of distribution workers over politics. They act out on developers selling LEGAL games marked ADULT...
I don't care about the reason the content is marked this way. I gatekeep my own chats 25+ just because I don't want to be exposed to the head dent politics of a child. If you're a zoomer, that means you.

If it is a LEGAL transaction, these payment processors have a fiduciary responsibility to handle it. Just as Steam has a fiduciary responsibility to customers and payment card processors to comply with the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard. Both of these parties know better than to break trust. Every time these payment processors act out, it harms everyone by causing reputational damage, loss of customers, litigation, and eventually (hopefully a HUGE one..) financial costs.

Many of my friends understand all of this. The rest don't really contribute anything meaningful to society or fell off years ago. So in this environment they don't matter. Some of them have been unpersoned over this type of bullshit because the payment processor acted out and were eventually forced to adopt other means of payment just to hold their lives together, which they can barely do on AsiaPay.

If a developer is pushing illegal content, they need to be shut down. That's the correct way to deal with it ON THE PLATFORM. The payment processor should not be overreaching anywhere with what "may" be a problem or what "may" incite harm or whatever. Last I checked, people have a right to face their accuser.

ShihabThe only thing I’m not happy about is that this isn’t an outright and exhaustive porn ban…

*takes cover*

That'd be an improvement, at least devs and people would have to move on and find alternatives. Instead we're gonna get another few years of milquetoast self-censorship and workarounds.

I dont necessarily support things like rape in computer games, at least in the sense that the player is carrying it out or watching it, but I also think its not a payment processor's remit to force such conditions on companies using their services, they are merely acting as a cash till and nothing more.

CifuIf we follow this path, we soon become to ban any illegall things in games.

You can kill someone in a game?
Ban that game!
You can rob someone in a game?
Ban that game!
You can make a business fraud in a game?
Ban that game!

Think it over...
(Yes, I know I'm not become popular, and no, I do not encourage anything such thing, but think it over where can be this lead)

That is scary thought since they could essentially remove all the old games you own as well.

ShihabThe only thing I’m not happy about is that this isn’t an outright and exhaustive porn ban…

*takes cover*

The U.S. once tried to solve its alcohol problem by banning it.
Spoiler: it didn’t work.

Banning something that has a demand only opens a window for a new market. And usually, that new market brings new problems to add to the current ones.

lexluthermiesterI'm likely to stand in stark contrast to many of the opinions expressed above.

I am in complete support of this. Adult/sexual content should NEVER be openly available to children and young adults.

So....what is a "young adult" here? Are you talking teenagers? Or are we talking those over 18?

I don't think you will find those who disagree with you are in favor of promoting this material to children, however we all know that "think of the children" has been directly abused many times over. When you get to teenagers you start running into murky issues, because they have the resources to get this stuff, and they are driven by very strong hormones. You ban it, they will still get it, but from less safe sources. The "Abstinence only" mindset has repeatedly been an utter failure.

Banning of content that features illegal acts, that makes a lot more sense and would receive wide support, fi it was being done correctly. But it isnt. It is being done in a way that is ripe for abuse and we have our history to look back on to know how this ends up.

lexluthermiesterIt either needs removal or placing behind age-gates. Steam has the right way of doing it. Adult games are behind a consent option and they are not open to anyone not logged in.
Itch.io is taking things to an extreme, but that's their choice.
GOG desperately needs to age-gate the adult stuff.
Not sure how Epic handles things.

None of this needs to come from payment processors.

lexluthermiesterMore needs to be done in this area.

That falls on the parents, not the payment processors. Not unless you are willing to dox yourself on every platform ever to ensure the powers that be you are old enough to look at naughty content online.

lexluthermiesterSo you're saying you are in support of the hypersexualization of our children and young people? Take a step back and think about that.

That's all these credit card companies are doing. They're drawing a line at the kind of products and services they can be utilized for. I 100% support that effort.

See this is where you completely lost me.

You've taken statements and gone WAY out in left field. Payment processors should not, in any way, be the ones to determine what is legal to purchase. That is what our LEGISLATIVE BRANCH is for. No, I do not stand in support of our megacorp overlords, and you shouldn't either, considering what a slippery slope this argument is. Here's my hot take: payment processors should have NO say in this, if the purchase is legal, they must allow it. Payment processors in our digital world are a service, not a luxury, and should be treated the same as utilities.

You should also look into the groups behind this, they are in favor of banning ALL violent video games, they are the same type that was behind the satanic panic 40 years ago. These are Karens who are clutching their pearls that there is morally questionable content online. No, I do not believe these types of people should be able to make rules on how our society functions. "Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons" is a TERRIBLE way to govern your society.

BlosteThe U.S. once tried to solve its alcohol problem by banning it.
Spoiler: it didn’t work.

Banning something that has a demand only opens a window for a new market. And usually, that new market brings new problems to add to the current ones.

And when that demand is for naughty content, the problems created are often VERY dark. Soul destroying even.

I’m in favor of closing this thread. Just like Dr. Dro, I have some VERY strong opinions regarding this topic(and agree with him) and I’m seeing comments that will in fact get me banned lol

lexluthermiesterI'm likely to stand in stark contrast to many of the opinions expressed above.

I am in complete support of this. Adult/sexual content should NEVER be openly available to children and young adults.
It either needs removal or placing behind age-gates. Steam has the right way of doing it. Adult games are behind a consent option and they are not open to anyone not logged in.
Itch.io is taking things to an extreme, but that's their choice.
GOG desperately needs to age-gate the adult stuff.
Not sure how Epic handles things.

I'd normally agree that sexualized material shouldn't be in the hands of children but at the same time, I also believe in freedom to choose to do as you please (if you're an adult, that is).

I've always wondered what goes in the head of the people behind "moral" movements. Here's an example:

My children don't respect me and don't listen when I tell them what they can and cannot play. What should I do?

1. Learn how to set up family and account restrictions and configure age settings in different platforms.
2. Pay someone who knows how do #1.
3. Band with other tech-illiterate and self-righteous parents and bother everyone else.

So?

1. Too hard.
2. Too expensive.
3. Ahhh!

Don't get me wrong. Humans are social beings and banding for whatever purpose is perfectly understandable behavior. That's how you get the Inquisition, the Ku Klux Klan, Heaven's Gate, ISIS and also Collective Shout. On the other hand, half the time the leaders of these movement's only care about power and prestige and it doesn't really matter to them what the movement is all about as long as they can keep their egos inflated. Funny, isn't it? :laugh:

And please don't bother me with the "good cause" argument because every group in history consider themselves to be "in the right". My criteria to distinguish good vs bad is this: Are they keeping to themselves or are the bothering someone else?
For instance:

1. Book club: they meet once a week, read some, drink some and go home happier than hey arrived. Veredict: GOOD.
2. Spanish Inquisition: they ask you if you think the Earth is round and if you say "yes" they torture you and burn you at the stake. Veredict: BAD.

PS: No animals were harmed in the writing of this comment. :roll:

I may not agree with Elon on many things, but if he does start up an independent payment processor company which doesn't care what you buy because they don't care about manufactured "image", I'll end up supporting that. It's a virtual monopoly when MasterCard, Visa, and PayPal are basically working together to try and morality police individuals' content purchases.

That said, I'm kind of surprised that American Express hasn't also jumped on the bandwagon; they haven't enforced policies anywhere to the same degree as Visa or PayPal do.

If steam is already age verified then there should be able option to disable or enable content by user. CC processors, banks, financial institutions should have no part or say in what adults do. Violation of a law won't be stopped by passing another law

Dr. DroI said to myself I wasn't going to engage in this thread but I can't help myself:

1. Parenting is your sole responsibility. It is not the government's or your family's, it is your sole responsibility as a father/mother/guardian to protect and guide your child.
2. If you are not responsible enough to raise a child, then take preemptive action to ensure you do not have one.
3. Parental controls are extensively available. Use them accordingly. Services are also provided to guide parents on how appropriate content may or may not be.

I'm not going to debate the morality or politics of it, not on this forum. But rest assured I have a lot to say, and almost none of it very nice. I have an obscenely strong opinion on this subject and nothing good ever comes out of it.

Did you remember when you were a kid ?

Parental Control ... are you serious ?

TechLurkerThat said, I'm kind of surprised that American Express hasn't also jumped on the bandwagon; they haven't enforced policies anywhere to the same degree as Visa or PayPal do.

AmEx doesn't have enough reach to pull this off, figures I saw a few days ago were like 4% of the market. If AmEx went to Steam and said "Stop selling this content we find objectionable or we will stop doing business with you" then Steam would point to the door and respond "don't let it hit you on the way out".

lexluthermiesterI am in complete support of this. Adult/sexual content should NEVER be openly available to children and young adults.
It either needs removal or placing behind age-gates. Steam has the right way of doing it. Adult games are behind a consent option and they are not open to anyone not logged in.

Nice strawman.

The issue here has nothing whatsoever to do with controlling access to this material from minors.

You might note that Steam, which you mentioned, got hit with the very same ultimatum from payment processors as Itch.io (and responded in much the same way).

lexluthermiesterSo you're saying you are in support of the hypersexualization of our children and young people? Take a step back and think about that.

And now you resort to false dichotomy. Despite the common diatribe to the contrary, support vs. deny are NOT the only choices.

My personal opinion on whether a piece of art is objectionable is just that, personal. Even should I find it objectionable, that is a completely orthogonal consideration to whether I think it has a right to exist in the first place.

lexluthermiesterThat's all these credit card companies are doing. They're drawing a line at the kind of products and services they can be utilized for. I 100% support that effort.

NO, that is very much NOT what they are doing. They ARE NOT limiting what only their services can be used to pay for.

They are saying they will stop doing business ENTIRELY unless the merchant completely removes content they find objectionable. Which service is used to pay for the content is not part of the ultimatum.

They are limiting what ALL services can be used to pay for. And they are abusing their near-monopolistic market position to do so.

Real ballsy of them to include prohibitions on otherwise perfectly kosher fetish content based off how reprehensible/gross the subject is. That one's difficult to justify any way you cut it, don't yuck someone's yum and other such proverbs.

I'll say it as many times as it needs be said: payment processors do not have, and should not have, the right to block transactions on the basis of the purchase being made. PayPal or whomever need not coddle their customers, who are primarily and exhaustively, adults. Hell, it's not their place to coddle the minors that use their services. It's a parent's job to assess what is appropriate for their child and monitor their behavior.

The best way to combat this, unilaterally, is to drop payment processors who attempt to strongarm this out of their clients, both on the business and customer side. This is certainly unprofessional enough to warrant burning a bridge or two.

C'mon, guys! Don'cha know they're private companies? They can do whatever they want!

KrazyTDid you remember when you were a kid ?

Parental Control ... are you serious ?

And what's your point anyway, that we should ban anything out there that someone's kid can abuse? Are You serious?
Bad parenting can't be fixed by regulations, it's just another step towards the Nineteen eighty-four society. We already got most of its traits, probably just missing the thought police and we're done.
People, adults or minors, will always find a workaround to get things. Making something illegal is just making it more interesting. Legal stuff gets boring fast. Basic psychology 101.
Payment processors shouldn't have the power to decide what we can or can't buy with our own money, it's just another liberty steal.

I don't like being told what I can or can't buy, but, at the same time, I support their moral stance as it is similar to mine.

lexluthermiesterI'm likely to stand in stark contrast to many of the opinions expressed above.

I am in complete support of this. Adult/sexual content should NEVER be openly available to children and young adults.
It either needs removal or placing behind age-gates. Steam has the right way of doing it. Adult games are behind a consent option and they are not open to anyone not logged in.
Itch.io is taking things to an extreme, but that's their choice.
GOG desperately needs to age-gate the adult stuff.
Not sure how Epic handles things.

More needs to be done in this area.


So you're saying you are in support of the hypersexualization of our children and young people? Take a step back and think about that.

That's all these credit card companies are doing. They're drawing a line at the kind of products and services they can be utilized for. I 100% support that effort.

You really do need to be looking at the group's history before declaring support for them. This is the same group that tried to get Detroit Become Human taken down. You are setting the stage for a whole lot of games to be removed based on anything someone might find objectionable.

tpa-prDo we really want to give a monopoly that much power, knowing it can be easily abused?

You're failing to understand. They already have that power. They have always had it, they just never used it until now.

Jack78What are you talking about, in what way does that involve CSEM in any way whatsoever? Do you even know what video games are and that it's all fictional content that doesn't involve real people? Steam already has age verification to even be able to view 18+ content just like other platforms and that shouldn't even be their concern. If you can't take care of your children then perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to have any. By the way Collective Shout (activist group behind all of this) stated multiple times they are in favor of banning all forms of violent games (not just nsfw games) attacking GTA 5 and Detroit Become Human. I guess you won't be allowed to play those anymore like you've been doing and posting it on your profile.

Someone is missing some context..

DeathtoGnomeswhose side are you on?

The side of those keep harmful garbage out of the casual reach of kids. THAT's the side I'm on.

DeathtoGnomesDo you want paypal to tell you what you can and cannot buy?

They don't do that. You too are missing some context.

DeathtoGnomesits not about the sex

It absolutely is about sexual content being freely accessible to kids.

DeathtoGnomesthis is about freedom of choice

Freedom of choice for ADULTS, yes. Not children.

DeathtoGnomesYou can color it how you want, but stay off my side of the street while you do.

You do you and I'll do as I damn well please to protect kids. Don't like that? Oh well..

megamanxtremeI don't like being told what I can or can't buy, but, at the same time, I support their moral stance as it is similar to mine.

It sucks, but it's a line we have to draw.

JoeTheDestroyerNice strawman.

Bite me.

JoeTheDestroyerThe issue here has nothing whatsoever to do with controlling access to this material from minors.

You might note that Steam, which you mentioned, got hit with the very same ultimatum from payment processors as Itch.io (and responded in much the same way).

JoeTheDestroyerAnd now you resort to false dichotomy. Despite the common diatribe to the contrary, support vs. deny are NOT the only choices.

My personal opinion on whether a piece of art is objectionable is just that, personal. Even should I find it objectionable, that is a completely orthogonal consideration to whether I think it has a right to exist in the first place.

JoeTheDestroyerNO, that is very much NOT what they are doing. They ARE NOT limiting what only their services can be used to pay for.

They are saying they will stop doing business ENTIRELY unless the merchant completely removes content they find objectionable. Which service is used to pay for the content is not part of the ultimatum.

They are limiting what ALL services can be used to pay for. And they are abusing their near-monopolistic market position to do so.

All I'm reading here is excuses from someone who can't see the forest for the trees, nor the writing on the wall.

TheinsanegamerNNone of this needs to come from payment processors.

Payment processors have an absolute obligation to uphold the law, whether THEY like it or not, and regardless of if WE like it or not.

A LOT of nations are passing very strict laws concern access to sexual materials and payment processing companies have ZERO choice but to adopt strict limitations on what merchants who use their services can sell. It's a legal liability that NO financial company wants to risk.

It is this simple. Like it or lump it folks, this is the direction things are going. There is no stopping it and for good reasons.

JoeTheDestroyerAmEx doesn't have enough reach to pull this off, figures I saw a few days ago were like 4% of the market. If AmEx went to Steam and said "Stop selling this content we find objectionable or we will stop doing business with you" then Steam would point to the door and respond "don't let it hit you on the way out".

You're right, but there's also the fact that AmEx is viewed as a premium option to work with, given that they're accepted almost everywhere despite their high fees, yet they don't pull the morality card despite catering their image to that of the wealthy and the spend-happy. Even nowadays, when more working middle-class can apply for a cheaper AmEx card option.

I guess it's just interesting that despite being originally seen as a luxury card company, they strictly focus on simply making sales happen, whether it's for SFW or NSFW content, as long as their clients pay up.

lexluthermiesterYou're failing to understand. They already have that power. They have always had it, they just never used it until now.


Someone is missing some context..


The side of those keep harmful garbage out of the casual reach of kids. THAT's the side I'm on.

They don't do that. You too are missing some context.

It absolutely is about sexual content being freely accessible to kids.

Freedom of choice for ADULTS, yes. Not children.

You do you and I'll do as I damn well please to protect kids. Don't like that? Oh well..


It sucks, but it's a line we have to draw.


Bite me.



All I'm reading here is excuses from someone who can't see the forest for the trees, nor the writing on the wall.


Payment processor have an absolute obligation to uphold the law, whether THEY like it or not, and regardless of if WE like it or not.

A LOT of nations are passing very strict laws concern access to sexual materials and payment processing companies have ZERO choice but to adopt strict limitations on what merchants who use their services can sell. It's a legal liability that NO financial company wants to risk.

It is this simple. Like it or lump it folks, this is the direction things are going. There is no stopping it and for good reasons.

Bro's fighting for children by being an internet footsoldier for the people on Epstein's client list :roll::roll::roll:

lexluthermiesterBite me.

Do ya one better :nutkick: