the reasion some dev's support apple is that their products will run decent on an apple base hardware config wow and other blizzard products are not hard core on gfx or cpu use, my system i can run 10+copys of wow and do other stuff and mines a lowly x2 chip not even a core2.

as to ms empire crumbling, ROFL thats funny, they been loosing some sales to linux in buisness but nothing that would make them suffer any.

as to Zune and ms codecs, the zune is selling like mad here, the ipod sucks for quility and fetures compared to something like irivers OLD h10 units that can play pretty much any format of audio file you throw on them.

ms's codecs, well, they dont bother me, the quilitys ok for video, and the audio is good at low bitrate specly for voice type data.

ogg is better, hell current ogg encoder is better then appls aac encoder by a large margin in my exp.

at one point ms had offered to make a dx distro for apple, but apple didnt want it, and now ms would want alot of cheese($) to make them a distro, so in that case, apple stuck something up their own rears not ms.

i am no ms lover, but i also dont like apples "buy a new one and toss the old one" method of upgrades, and their "we are the best, if you run anything but a mac you suck" attatude(see their adds and their users.....)

as to quicktime, it got alot of use because alot of mac users where posting quicktime files online, i remmber those days, they sucked, quicktime honestly is CRAP, realone is better, and i HATE realone/realplayer, BUT real codecs/encoders are STELLER for a quility per bitrate comparison, its really funny, the best shit comes from the worst companys :P

i encode videos to x264 with vorbis audio, i use mediacoder, mac dosnt got anything thats quite as good as windows mediacoder!!!!

for audio i use dbpoweramp, again apple dosnt got anything even close to as powerfull, and belive me, i have looked for friends, apple has its strong points but its also got massive weaknesses, some are obvous, others arent so obvious, i really do like some things apple does, but hate other things they do, their attatude as a company and that of the bulk of their users really turns me off to the whole "mac experiance" that and i hate noobiefied os's and games/apps, if i want to be treated like a MORON i will go see my fathers relitives, at least they feed u when treating you like ur stupid :P

ChillyMystthe reasion some dev's support apple is that their products will run decent on an apple base hardware config wow and other blizzard products are not hard core on gfx or cpu use, my system i can run 10+copys of wow and do other stuff and mines a lowly x2 chip not even a core2.

as to ms empire crumbling, ROFL thats funny, they been loosing some sales to linux in buisness but nothing that would make them suffer any.

as to Zune and ms codecs, the zune is selling like mad here, the ipod sucks for quility and fetures compared to something like irivers OLD h10 units that can play pretty much any format of audio file you throw on them.

ms's codecs, well, they dont bother me, the quilitys ok for video, and the audio is good at low bitrate specly for voice type data.

ogg is better, hell current ogg encoder is better then appls aac encoder by a large margin in my exp.

at one point ms had offered to make a dx distro for apple, but apple didnt want it, and now ms would want alot of cheese($) to make them a distro, so in that case, apple stuck something up their own rears not ms.

i am no ms lover, but i also dont like apples "buy a new one and toss the old one" method of upgrades, and their "we are the best, if you run anything but a mac you suck" attatude(see their adds and their users.....)

as to quicktime, it got alot of use because alot of mac users where posting quicktime files online, i remmber those days, they sucked, quicktime honestly is CRAP, realone is better, and i HATE realone/realplayer, BUT real codecs/encoders are STELLER for a quility per bitrate comparison, its really funny, the best shit comes from the worst companys :P

i encode videos to x264 with vorbis audio, i use mediacoder, mac dosnt got anything thats quite as good as windows mediacoder!!!!

for audio i use dbpoweramp, again apple dosnt got anything even close to as powerfull, and belive me, i have looked for friends, apple has its strong points but its also got massive weaknesses, some are obvous, others arent so obvious, i really do like some things apple does, but hate other things they do, their attatude as a company and that of the bulk of their users really turns me off to the whole "mac experiance" that and i hate noobiefied os's and games/apps, if i want to be treated like a MORON i will go see my fathers relitives, at least they feed u when treating you like ur stupid :P

I'm not trying to treat you like your stupid, I'm trying to explain how Micrsoft's monopoly is failing due to failing to launch proprietary products on a mainstream basis (not sells). True zune is doing good, but not half as good as the iPod, they own around 10% of the market.

The fact is all of the things you're talking about are non ms proprietary, solutions made against MS. Apple certainly wants this and so does most of the business solutions. I'm not in any means saying that Apple products are better than everything, I'm trying to say that MS proprietary products are not the solution for mainstream consumers. If it does become that way, we will all be locked into a huge MS world.

The biggest example I can think of is the HD-DVD players, read the article in my sig...

I'm really not trying to treat you like you're stupid, and if I am my apologies.

ChillyMysti encode videos to x264 with vorbis audio, i use mediacoder, mac dosnt got anything thats quite as good as windows mediacoder!!!!

ffmpegX does x264/vorbis, and supported multithreading long before any encoders on Windows did. It can't do some of the oddball codecs thet mediacoder can, but it's every bit as fast, and a bunch more stable.

RavenasI'm not trying to treat you like your stupid, I'm trying to explain how Micrsoft's monopoly is failing due to failing to launch proprietary products on a mainstream basis (not sells). True zune is doing good, but not half as good as the iPod, they own around 10% of the market.

The fact is all of the things you're talking about are non ms proprietary, solutions made against MS. Apple certainly wants this and so does most of the business solutions. I'm not in any means saying that Apple products are better than everything, I'm trying to say that MS proprietary products are not the solution for mainstream consumers. If it does become that way, we will all be locked into a huge MS world.

The biggest example I can think of is the HD-DVD players, read the article in my sig...

I'm really not trying to treat you like you're stupid, and if I am my apologies.

haha u thought i ment u where treating me as a moron, no no, i ment apples os treats you like a moron, as does vista.

they are and you are locked into a huge ms world, if you dont already see that, then your blind, there are alwase gonna be fringe groups, linux and apple users who avoid the norm, but over 95% of the market buy windows based systems and are happy/content with them, thats where im coming from.

as to your hd artical, i really dont care, i think both formats suck, bd has to much DRM and hd-dvd has lower capacity,

and i dont agree with alot of what the artical claims/says, ms wasnt gonna get richer off hd-dvd because of the codec's used, hd-dvd can support h264 just like bd, it really wasnt gonna matter who won, eather way we are stuck with less choice and a monopoly by a buch of assholes who want to treat every cosumer like a theif(drm) and who really only care about filling their pockets as quickly as possable.

im waiting on HVD format to hit the main market, it would be nice to see tb worth of storege on an optical format disk :)

ChillyMysthaha u thought i ment u where treating me as a moron, no no, i ment apples os treats you like a moron, as does vista.

they are and you are locked into a huge ms world, if you dont already see that, then your blind, there are alwase gonna be fringe groups, linux and apple users who avoid the norm, but over 95% of the market buy windows based systems and are happy/content with them, thats where im coming from.

as to your hd artical, i really dont care, i think both formats suck, bd has to much DRM and hd-dvd has lower capacity,

and i dont agree with alot of what the artical claims/says, ms wasnt gonna get richer off hd-dvd because of the codec's used, hd-dvd can support h264 just like bd, it really wasnt gonna matter who won, eather way we are stuck with less choice and a monopoly by a buch of assholes who want to treat every cosumer like a theif(drm) and who really only care about filling their pockets as quickly as possable.

im waiting on HVD format to hit the main market, it would be nice to see tb worth of storege on an optical format disk :)

I think they would have gotten richer simply because MS was going to use MS as a Digital Download platform. LIVE MOVIES BY MS! haha...

Wile EffmpegX does x264/vorbis, and supported multithreading long before any encoders on Windows did. It can't do some of the oddball codecs thet mediacoder can, but it's every bit as fast, and a bunch more stable.

havent had media coder crash once as long as i use the full not beta builds(using beta x64 now and its rock stable)

and i have seen ffmpegX its not as vercitile, nore as tweakable in my experiance, mac has some nice software, but nothing you cant get the same results from under windows.

most mac encoding software wants you to use quicktimes PROPRITARY format, a format i truely dispise, and itunes, well the pc ver sucks, and i dont like using it even on mac's, i would rather just drag and drop my files from my pc to my player and go, or encode with a simple rclick with NO drm.(god how i hate drm)

ChillyMysthavent had media coder crash once as long as i use the full not beta builds(using beta x64 now and its rock stable)

and i have seen ffmpegX its not as vercitile, nore as tweakable in my experiance, mac has some nice software, but nothing you cant get the same results from under windows.

most mac encoding software wants you to use quicktimes PROPRITARY format, a format i truely dispise, and itunes, well the pc ver sucks, and i dont like using it even on mac's, i would rather just drag and drop my files from my pc to my player and go, or encode with a simple rclick with NO drm.(god how i hate drm)

At any rate, Quicktime dominates WMP9, but I'm by no means saying quicktime is the best solution. I'm a WinAMP user myself.

ChillyMysthavent had media coder crash once as long as i use the full not beta builds(using beta x64 now and its rock stable)

and i have seen ffmpegX its not as vercitile, nore as tweakable in my experiance, mac has some nice software, but nothing you cant get the same results from under windows.

most mac encoding software wants you to use quicktimes PROPRITARY format, a format i truely dispise, and itunes, well the pc ver sucks, and i dont like using it even on mac's, i would rather just drag and drop my files from my pc to my player and go, or encode with a simple rclick with NO drm.(god how i hate drm)

ffmpegx is every bit as tweakable. You can go to the command line to change options, just like MC. And I'm using the latest stable MC, and it crashes on me constantly. I even clocked to stock and swapped my ram and test. It still crashes when it wants to, and it always has for me in all my time using it. It's stability = crap.

And the point of my argument isn't whether or not you can achieve the same thing in Windows, it that you CAN achieve the same thing in OS X. You just don't want to see that. For anything that can be done in Windows, I can do in OS X, with the exception of gaming.

Ehstiiyou dont have to emulate.

you can natively boot microsoft OS on a mac.

That still defeats the purpose.

ghost101To be fair some are valid. Remote Desktop on XP/vista sucks. Its a shame most reasons given are rubbish, some are just repeats of others as well.

One word. Crossloop. And its 100% free. I use it. Works great.

CrAsHnBuRnXpThat still defeats the purpose.

How so? I'd rather dual-boot any day. On my iMac, I'll fire up parallels to do simple stuff in Windows if I have to. Like my gf's schooling. It needs ActiveX to run. But for anything remotely intensive that I want to do in Windows, I boot to the OS. It's way more efficient that virtual machines.

ok your right WileE, we should all sell our pc's run out and get macs, they are better,and media coder is totaly unreliable, i must just be very very very lucky that it dosnt crash on me every time i use it.........

*go's off to try and sell his worthless crappy windows pc so he can make a downpayment on a mac*

ChillyMystok your right WileE, we should all sell our pc's run out and get macs, they are better,and media coder is totaly unreliable, i must just be very very very lucky that it dosnt crash on me every time i use it.........

*go's off to try and sell his worthless crappy windows pc so he can make a downpayment on a mac*

I don't think that's what he's saying Chilly :laugh: He's saying there isn't a reason for prebuilt PCs right now because Mac covers every basis. As for custom PCs, that's another story.

ChillyMystok your right WileE, we should all sell our pc's run out and get macs, they are better,and media coder is totaly unreliable, i must just be very very very lucky that it dosnt crash on me every time i use it.........

*go's off to try and sell his worthless crappy windows pc so he can make a downpayment on a mac*

At what point did I ever say Macs were better? I never did. You just happen to have a lot of misguided ideas and misconceptions about them. At no point did I try to make them seem superior, but you, on the other hand, try to make them sound inferior at every turn. I'm not the one in the wrong here, you are.

this argument is kinda pointless, there is NO way to prove one way or another as to which os is better, its just opinion, each one has its strengths and weaknesses, MS platforms being cheap, game friendly, you can oc ect..., with a mac its simple to use(pro, maybe a con depending on person), pretty, some nice software of the bat, lower risk of viruses, now for a few cons, MS prebuilts (*cough*dell*cough*) well on a few occasions suck, much more prone to viruses, vista(without tweaking) now for mac very expensive, cant oc, gives you feeling of superiority over pc owners(average consumer, not those with half a brain to see pros and cons) no games, i could make very long lists on each side but it would be pointless, lets agree on one thing the macbooks are nice (not for everyone,like me) but nice, their destops suck completely overpriced, for what you get, but so are dells (the sucking part and sometimes overpriced part)

Wile EAt what point did I ever say Macs were better? I never did. You just happen to have a lot of misguided ideas and misconceptions about them. At no point did I try to make them seem superior, but you, on the other hand, try to make them sound inferior at every turn. I'm not the one in the wrong here, you are.

that was scarcasim ya nub!!!


you think i havent delt with macs at all, you seem to think they are the shit, and that at least is how your compaison to me comes off.

i duno why you media coder crashes so much, i left mine running for 8 days doing a GIANT batch of anime, guess what, i games, watched movies, and slept and it didnt crash once.....even on anime that crashed explorer and even crashed fing vlc(damn that was some crappy encoding!!!)

i guess in this case my systems just more stable then yours :)

and i have delt with macs, i have friends/relitives/neibors who have them, and they never have impressed me, other then with how shiny the basel face of their way to white monotors is.......oh and at how fubar they can become with just something simple like a digital cam or mouse being pluged in(restart looks suck) calling apple and having them say"reinstall the os" when ms has never once told me that in all the times i called and reported problems/buggs when i was working at bits n bytes computers.

i know, i dont own one, so i must not know jack shit about them.

but here is my exp, the version of all the encoding softwares i tryed didnt offer the flexability and ease of use that mediacoder or some other apps i have here offer, i couldnt find an equivlant to dbpoweramp(because their isnt one!!!)

when i did run into trouble apples first responce 90% of the time was "reinstall the os" to me thats just.......insainly lazy.........

apples to you are extreamly good prices, but to me, well since i dont care if its an amd or intel cpu, and i do like to overclock, i would rather get the same better perf for a fraction of the price, and when i feel i need an upgrade, just beable to slap in an upgrade and away i go, insted of doing the apple classic upgrade where you buy a new one and chuck the old one out the window.

i know i know your gonna say "but you can upgrade the power macs" yeah, but the power macs are insaily over prices in my book, and the mac mini/emac/imac are NOT easly upgraded, the mac mini the best u can do is more ram and a better hdd, wow, thats about......useless if the cpu os slow as snot!!!, and to upgrade them u gotta know how to pry them apart without breaking them(fun!!!)

the imac.....oh jesus, the last 2 i opened where just a royal pain in the ass to get open, then even more fun to get back togather.......

granted they where the older style crt ones, but i did open one of the lcd version, and it wasnt so nice inside, in my book if u buy a computer you should beable to upgrade ir yourself, and not need a engenering degree to get it apart/back togather, let alone to try and swap some parts, the lcd mac i opened had a metel clip holding the ram down, this is added to the normal plastic ram locks!!!! wth is that about?

well i know your gonna think "oh bullshit macs rock, they are great for theprice" but to me and most geeks, well they suck, the os is even more annoing then vista(omfg, is it even possable!!!) it dosnt let the normal user have deep access to settings you may want to tweak, because the avg mac user is about as computer literit as my dog.........(hey he knows how to pee on the power cables...) so they hide everything......

if i was forced to choose between a mac mini and an eeepc, the eeepc would win, if i had to choose between an old imac or old first gen mac mini and castration with a 12lb sludge hammer, i would take the hammer, less painfull!!!!

^ CHilly - his point is tjhat while it sucks to us enthusiasts, to the people that never open the case its a step up over a dell.

something that falls out of my ass is a step up fron a dell desktop!!!

i recently told 2 ppl i know who HAD to buy prebuilts to get the gateway system i linked on the forums recently, they are both quite happy with it, one wishes it had come with an ati card tho as he has some issues with the nvidia drivers tv out fetures under vista(he dosnt have a copy of xp....lol)

there are cheaper more powerfull prebuilts that offer good bang for the buck.

i use to hate dell and gateway, but since acer bought gateway things have gotten better, opened an acer gateway and found that the board was gigabyte, and not some stiped down special order board, a regualr over the counter one just with gateway bios.

hit ctrl+f1 in the bios and bam overclocking and tweaking fetures, not that they overclock very well, but they do overclock!!!

i know what he ment, but thats not exectly how it comes off, at least not to me, WileE and i have had this arguement b4 other places including on the phone :P (hes meh buddy!!)

we endup agreeing to dissagree because, to me its not about having the exect same parts, its about having the same every day perf, and ican get that for a better price else where!!!

das müffin mannthis argument is kinda pointless, there is NO way to prove one way or another as to which os is better, its just opinion, each one has its strengths and weaknesses, MS platforms being cheap, game friendly, you can oc ect..., with a mac its simple to use(pro, maybe a con depending on person), pretty, some nice software of the bat, lower risk of viruses, now for a few cons, MS prebuilts (*cough*dell*cough*) well on a few occasions suck, much more prone to viruses, vista(without tweaking) now for mac very expensive, cant oc, gives you feeling of superiority over pc owners(average consumer, not those with half a brain to see pros and cons) no games, i could make very long lists on each side but it would be pointless, lets agree on one thing the macbooks are nice (not for everyone,like me) but nice, their destops suck completely overpriced, for what you get, but so are dells (the sucking part and sometimes overpriced part)

There is one way to settle it all but it involves Microsoft invation of Cupertino, CA and bombing Apple inc world headquaters. I'm sure Bill Gates has thought of that he has to hate that 10% of another platform exsist :D Bill Gates Is a GOD I tell ya

he does have the resources to pull of such a plan;)

ChillyMystwe endup agreeing to dissagree because, to me its not about having the exect same parts, its about having the same every day perf, and ican get that for a better price else where!!!

That's a pointless argument tho. You can build a cheaper, yet comparable computer compared to ANY prebuilt. The point is, for pre-built computers, Macs are a good value.

Taking it one step further, a MacPro is a good value, even if you considered building an 8 core workstation yourself, as the prices are almost the same.

And you always bring up that mouse argument. It apparently holds about as much worth as my Mediacoder argument. I'm the only one you know that has problems with MC, and you're the only one I know that ever seen a reboot loop on a Mac be caused by a usb device. Both are apparently anomalies. And as such, neither holds water in this debate.