Your Core i9-10850K/10900K settings?

[framebuffer]

OK I finally managed to get rid of all the stuff going on and reboot to test some undervolt settings

First thing, the "general" Core/Cache Voltage offset seems to be not ideal to fine tune the offset, at least in a full auto frequency configuration.
I'll explain it better: I tried an offset of 0.100 (targeting somewhere around 1.225V for ACT situations) but the system crashed after the Windows login, while it was doing some 1-2 core heavy stuff, boosting around 5.2GHz, so I guess that -0.100V was too much from the auto voltage at the peak frequency.

I then reduced the offset to 0.050V and things seems to be stable, but I guess the offset should be set on a frequency base.
I found an advanced sub-menu where all the turbo states are listed and for 5.2GHz I see voltages around 1.500V

In this menu it's possible to set an offset for each state, so I guess one should try to tune per-state voltages to find the lowest one for each one

At the moment, with the general 0.050V negative offset I have the following voltages during CB R20 with ACT at 4.80GHz

VCORE: 1.234V - 1.241V
VID#0-9: 1.334V

But I also have these max values from a normal system usage

VCORE (max): 1.421V
VID#0-9 (max): 1.510V

So, questions:
- I guess it's normal to have such high voltages for 1-2 core(s) turbo?
- what is the difference between VCORE and VID?
- is there a "better" way to do this? Maybe switching to full manual?

 

[unclewebb]

for 5.2GHz I see voltages around 1.500V

Same here for my 10850K. Needing an extra +0.2 V for an extra 200 MHz is not really worth it so I run 5000 GHz all core instead.

The Auto voltage seems to work good. If you switch to a fixed voltage then you are going to have to run high voltage all of the time. At default settings, CPU cores are only going to be getting high voltage when they are using the 52 multiplier. When fully loaded and the multiplier at 48, the voltage will automatically drop.

VID is the requested voltage. VCore is the voltage that the CPU is actually using. VCore is the important one.

 

[ThrashZone]

OK I finally managed to get rid of all the stuff going on and reboot to test some undervolt settings

First thing, the "general" Core/Cache Voltage offset seems to be not ideal to fine tune the offset, at least in a full auto frequency configuration.
I'll explain it better: I tried an offset of 0.100 (targeting somewhere around 1.225V for ACT situations) but the system crashed after the Windows login, while it was doing some 1-2 core heavy stuff, boosting around 5.2GHz, so I guess that -0.100V was too much from the auto voltage at the peak frequency.

I then reduced the offset to 0.050V and things seems to be stable, but I guess the offset should be set on a frequency base.
I found an advanced sub-menu where all the turbo states are listed and for 5.2GHz I see voltages around 1.500V

In this menu it's possible to set an offset for each state, so I guess one should try to tune per-state voltages to find the lowest one for each one

At the moment, with the general 0.050V negative offset I have the following voltages during CB R20 with ACT at 4.80GHz

VCORE: 1.234V - 1.241V
VID#0-9: 1.334V

But I also have these max values from a normal system usage

VCORE (max): 1.421V
VID#0-9 (max): 1.510V

So, questions:
- I guess it's normal to have such high voltages for 1-2 core(s) turbo?
- what is the difference between VCORE and VID?
- is there a "better" way to do this? Maybe switching to full manual?

Hi,
What SP rating is your bios showing
Sounds like a low one sp 60 range ?
Also where was your chip made not China I'd bet.

 

[framebuffer]

I guess it's very bad

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Don't feel like the lone ranger unclewebb's looks about the same as yours a little better at sp63.
Think newer came out of Vietnam ?

 

[BarbaricSoul]

I'm running all-core 4.9GHz at 1.284 volts, 100% full load on all cores running WCG

 

[unclewebb]

A recent beta BIOS bumped the SP rating from 63 to 64.

I think this is close to the cutoff point between 10850K and 10900K. This is a good rating for a 10850K but I have seen 10900K with the same SP 63 rating. I would be choked if I spent extra money for a 10900K and ended up with a SP 63 dog.

 

[framebuffer]

well actually that makes sense
what do you use to test stability unclewebb?

 

[Outback Bronze]

SP rating

Yeah it would be nice to know the rating of my 10900KF as I can run 5Ghz underload (RB 15m no AVX offset) @ 1.21v.

Having trouble with my 4400Mhz Thermaltake Tough Ram atm. Cant even get anything over 3000Mhz with XMP voltages and timing enabled

I have just sent Gigabyte an email regarding this issue. I have put the CPU at stock just to test memory speeds. Anything over 3000Mhz wont boot which is very strange.

I have even applied all the XMP timings manually so the AUTO function doesn't interfere and 1.3v on VCCIO & SA with no joy...

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
I personally just go by blender opendata and or blender free demo files classroom/.. is pretty good since I have blender installed already it's easy to run and a good realistic measure of stability otherwise I'd just use opendata.
I do not use p95
Blender Open Data — blender.org

Blender
Demo Files — blender.org

 

[Atomic77]

Oh my gosh there is a such thing as i9? I'm just happy to have a i7 that is plenty fast for me.

 

[RavinGamin]

I seem to have a weird vcore issue when using auto vcore to get a guide of voltages to work with.

I'm still playing with my OC to get stable but believe my system restarting once a week has been a ram issue.

Im due to test things but it seems that an all core 4.8ghz oc needs alot more vcore than in comparison to 4.9ghz or 5ghz.

I'll confirm vcores when back on pc but it was like...

4.7ghz = 1.22
4.8ghz = 1.32
4.9ghz = 1.29
5ghz = 1.34

I'm going to do some testing and will conform back.

I see comments in regards to loosing 200mhz or so when going for an all core oc but just how often is a cpu ever only using 1 or 2 cores for those to hit 5.2?

Ive tried several scenarios and never seen just 2 in action. Set a +2 offset for turbo so should have seen 5.4 if only 2 cores or 5.2 if 4 or so etc but only ever saw all on 5 with dips so surely better to get a locked 5ghz with no dips to 4.8 or even less?

I seem to have it stable at 4.9 at 1.28v llc on mode 2 but have had the system restart a few times. I think it is a ram issue though as my Vengeance 3600 wont boot past 3200 and had 2 bad memory stop bsod so set to 3000 and had one or two restarts in a week or two.
I ran on 5ghz v1.32 i think it was for a week with little issue until the bsod and restart but that could have been the ram so may try that oc again now rams dropped to 2933 for the time being.

If anyone with good experience of cpu and ram oc'ing is willing to chat via my discord please let me know. It would be massively appreciated!!!
Thank you in advance!!

 

[tirasoft]

i9-10900KF
I am running as follows:
- CPU speeds (OC) : 5.5Ghz 1-6 cores / 5.4Ghz 7-10 cores ; avx2 offest -1 ; 5Ghz cache ring speed ; adaptive Vcore 1.46V ; Short Turbo Power 360W , Long Turbo Power 160W ; -3 multiplier TVB above 55deg ; per pont voltage offsets custom ; CPU core temperatures : 18-20deg idle and low load , max 55-60deg full load , 45deg Gaming (sub ambient temp cooling using TEC + water cooling 360mm rad with 6x120mm Noctua push-pull Noctua industrial IPPC 3000 rpm fans / case fans : front-rear 140 mm , bottom fan 120mm, RAM fan 80mm , PCIE back fan 80 mm)
- RAM : 4000Mhz 16-18-18-36 CR2

 

[phanbuey]

View attachment 196940

I guess it's very bad

That's a little worse than mine but not by much.

 

[imSebbbbb]

10850k, 5Ghz all core, 1.295v + LLC to level 6 (it’s the second highest), ASUS rog strix z490–E

Perfectly stable in all of my benchmark including R20/R23
R23 score: ~16200/~16000
R20 score: ~6200

My SP rating is: 64 (very sad)

Although I have an EK AIO 360 with 6 fans in a push-pull configuration, in cinebench I have temperatures ranging between 75 and 81 degrees

 

[RayongRay]

I have just purchased an affordable but fully working good i9 10850K cpu to replace my i510400F and have purchased a decent new Cooler Master Hyper 622 Black cooler fan for it. All installed and working as default with bios settings on auto, but I am disappointed to not see the cpu speed go above about 4.7 GHz on any stress tests whereas I was expecting the default turbo mode on this i9 cpu to be about 5.2 GHz or more as advertised for this cpu.

So I searched and ended up here as to how to set up the bios to achieve the full potential of this beast of a cpu. I used to overclock back 20 years or so ago but now rusty and all is so different now. Looking at my bios on my Gigabyte H410M H V2 motherboard I cannot find the settings discussed here though there is a tweaker section where overclocking should be able to be instigated.

So does anyone know the settings I need to change in my bios (UEFI) just to realise the full normal turbo mode as for now not looking for any more serious safe overclocking, but that may come later. thsi is an excellent motherboard and supposed to be okay for overclocking capable cpus like the i9 10805K

 

[unclewebb]

You need a Z490 or Z590 series motherboard to overclock a 10850K CPU. An H410M will run the CPU at default specs. A full load test like Cinebench will run at 4.8 GHz or slightly less. Most motherboards set the BCLK to slightly less than 100 MHz.

48 X 99.77 MHz = 4789 MHz

If the power limits are set to default values (PL1=125W, PL2=250W) the CPU will power limit throttle and run slower than that during a 10 minute Cinebench test.

An H410M motherboard is a terrible choice for a beastly CPU. The K series CPUs are unlocked but they are only unlocked when running on a Z series motherboard. Post some ThrottleStop screenshots if you need help.

When a 10850K is set to default settings and all 10 cores are active, the maximum multiplier is limited to 48. On an H410M motherboard, the core C states need to be enabled in the BIOS if you want the CPU to use the higher turbo multipliers when it is lightly loaded.

 

[RayongRay]

Thank you so much unclewebb for that feedback. Problem is even at default setting which I now have the thermal throttling takes place at around 70C which is quickly reached when I start a cpu stress test. The reported core speed drops from 4.79Ghz right down to about 800Mhz and then as the temp drops it goes back up for a few seconds and then throttles again. Surely if it was the cooler not properly installed (and it is a new big CoolerMaster Hyper 622 Black twin tower twin fan monster), then the core tempos would show much higher and then thermal throttling would be understandable. So could the cooler somehow not be doing its job and should I try removing it an reinstalling it with maybe less thermal compound, one drop instead of five small drops. Setting the fan to run at 100% still produces the same thermal throttling at around 70C

I also find that with XTU program which I have downloaded I also get without running stress tests Current/EDP Limit Throttling permanently on at the default 160A but raising this to 212A this current throttling no longer happens even stops intermittently happing running the stress test. One other thing I have noticed is sometimes just core 3 drops to 8x from 48x but does restore itself ?? I want to ensure the second hand tested cpu I brought from a reputable eBay seller is not faulty. These 10th gen i9 cpus are noted for being very reliable I hear so it is probably something wrong with my set up here

Anyway I have attached some photos of my BIOS settings and of the XTU screen including a very short video whilst running the XTU cpu stress test. Your help would be so very very much appreciated. I have this powerful set up mainly for flight simming with X Plane 12 and I keep seeing on the live data graph the cpu keeps showing this highly reduced speed and the resultant from rate loss.

My system has 32GB DDR4 3200 memory running at 2966Mhz, I have a Aurus GTX1080Ti 11 Gb graphics card modestly and safely overclocked feeding a AOC ultra wide screen 34" 3440x1440 res at 165Hz refresh and1mS response time monitor, Mobo is the Gigabyte H410M H V2 with the i9 10850K cpu, I am desperate to cure this cpu throttling problem at way too low a temperature.

 

[RayongRay]

I meant to add that I have also a pretty new Corsair high quality 750W PSU too which is very stable with this set up.

 

[unclewebb]

Intel XTU does not correctly report some types of throttling.

Try running ThrottleStop 9.6

ThrottleStop 9.6 Download

ThrottleStop is a small application designed to monitor for and correct the three main types of CPU throttling that are being used on many lapto

www.techpowerup.com

Open the Limit Reasons window and see if anything is lighting up red while stress testing. Run something consistent like Cinebench.

Post screenshots of Limit Reasons and the main ThrottleStop window while the CPU is loaded running Cinebench. Also post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see your settings. Check the Log File box before you do any testing. When finished testing, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file. Attach a log file and some ThrottleStop screenshots to your next post.

My gut feeling is telling me that your motherboard has a BD PROCHOT throttling problem. If you see BD PROCHOT lighting up red in Limit Reasons, try clearing the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Intel XTU reports this type of throttling as Thermal Throttling. Your CPU temperature is only 46°C in the screenshot you posted so Intel XTU is wrong.

 

[RayongRay]

Thank you once again. Wow I did not realise you were the guy who created ThrottleStop so very much appreciated for you helping me here.

That 43C was obviously caught in the photo after the thermal throttling as the bottom left graph shows the temps oscillating between around 70C to 43C as the throttling turned on and off. I have looked and eh Z4xx and Z5xx motherboards with LGA1200 sockets and wow they are new about twice the price of the H410 ones. I see there are some cheaper ones available at redcued promotional prices like an Asrock Z490 at about US$100 and a very cheap one of unknown brand that has good spec :- Biostar TZ590-BTC DUO LGA1200 at just 2500 Thai Baht (about US$72) and with a Z590 chipset not Z490 as on most cheaper boards. But hey is it any good?

Anyhow for now what I really want to be able to do is get my i9 running stable in default mode as 4.8GHz which is plenty for my use for now and mainly for X Plane 12 running smoothly at over 30FPS . So if I can stop this low temperature throttling it would be so good.

Yes I have already downloaded and unzipped ThrottleStop 9.6 and see I need to first revert XTU back to default settings. So I am about to do this today and run those tests you mentioned. I will leave the bios alone as that is now basically default but with C States enabled and the core clock multiplier set at x48 and the cache clock as high as it will go on my mobo at x43 (yes x45 would be more ideal) I already have Cinebench and also Kombuster too for stress testing the cpu . So will do the tests and send you the results on here later.

BTW I assume the temperature sensors are in the cpu or are they on the mobo that are used for thermal throttling ?

 

[unclewebb]

There is a temperature sensor on each core within the CPU package. These sensors trigger thermal throttling if any CPU core reaches 100°C. Throttling before reaching this temperature is rarely thermal related.

BD PROCHOT throttling that XTU likes to call thermal throttling is not thermal related at all.

After you post some ThrottleStop screenshots, it should be possible to get this throttling problem sorted out. Save you some money hopefully.

The problem with trying to run a 10 core CPU on a H410M board is usually voltage regulator related. Either the voltage regulators are not able to fully power the CPU during a stress test or they are poorly cooled and overheat. The ThrottleStop Limit Reasons window should be able to show if this is the cause of the problem you are having. Turning on the Log File option is the best way to record what your CPU is really doing. The log file will record temperatures, performance and any reasons for throttling.

the guy who created ThrottleStop

That is me. I like helping users in forums with their throttling problems. It is the best way to learn about new problems without having to spend my own money on new hardware.

 

[RayongRay]

Well I have now discovered thanks to your wonderful ThrottleStop app that it is indeed BDPROCHOT causing the throttling. Also the Icc Max I had to turn up as I did in XTU to 230A to stop that EDP throttling but I understand this is normal to set it that high for an i9 cpu but correct me if I am wrong. However when I disable teh BDPROCHOT then the PC shuts down instantly and I have to reboot it.

If I then set the Group 3 - 10 core ratio right down to lowest 36 then the BDPROCHOT error still occurs but less often and if I turn on Disable Turbo then it does not happen at all but now my CPU is not throttling but way too slow and defeats the object of an i9 of course. Also tried Cinebench for a single core test and no throttling at all even with group 0 set to x48 With Turbo Disabled the BDPROCHOT error disappears and of course then I can turn that off (not that now matters) without any PC shutdown.

Anyway some screen shots as requested for you attached and these were before I changed anything and with CB running in multi core test mode. I am not sure how to enable the log in TS or where to find it but if its there I will find it eventually

So what can I do to disable BDPROCHOT and run my i9 at default settings without my PC shutting down? Could it be a faulty i9 cpu or should I try reseating my big Cooler Master Hyper 622 air cooler or is it something else??

So much appreciate what you are doing here unclewebb, and the TS app is fantastic. BTW what settings stick without TS running BTW on my H410M H V2 mobo ??

 

[RayongRay]

Okay I soon found how to enable logging and where the log files are saved. So I ran up TS again and only settings that were changed were teh core group ratios were all set to48 and the IccMax changed from default 160A to 232A to stop that EDP error alarm which no no longer happens at this setting.

Okay ran the CB test with these setting in multi core mode and here is the log file from that last session.

I also let the Limit Reasons window run whilst I loaded up and ran X Plane 12. I set the group 3 to x46 and the rest left at 48 and although I got a couple of BDPROCHOT alarms whilst intensively loading up a flight one I got into the cockpit and ew I did not get any more BDPH throttling and looking at speed it was using group 3 so X Plane must use all 10 cores which surprised me. Setting Group 3 up to x48 did start producing the BDPH throttling at times which is unacceptable when flight simming of course.

It does seem to be cpu temperature related and unlikely any other mobo sensor problem, but don't know how to ascertain that. However it only happens when the cpu core temps go over about 70 to 80C. The other day before I found you on here, with X Plane I was certainly getting much more throttling evident at x48, but something has changed since using TS and now it is workable, sure not ideal as would like to not see BDPH throttling at all at full default speed and leave it to the cpu itself to protect itself if needed with its inbuilt thermal throttling.

Again I am so grateful to you. This has been a huge learning curve for me as so much has changed since I last played around with overclocking cpus back 20 years or so ago. I am a British senior qualified electronics and comms engineer now 78 years old and retired for 21 years but still try to keep up with the considerable professional knowledge I had when I retired. As I live in Thailand as an expat and I assume you are in the USA, we are opposite ends of the world so our nights and days are swapped of course.

 

[unclewebb]

It does seem to be cpu temperature related

It is not directly CPU temperature related. It looks like the problem is your motherboard is not capable of fully powering a 10850K CPU. The motherboard uses BD PROCHOT throttling to try and cover up the fact that the motherboard does not properly support a 10 core Intel CPU. Sure a 10850K will work in this motherboard but it is likely that the power delivery circuits are under designed. Low end motherboards cost less for a reason. Manufacturers tend to cheap out on every component that they use on these motherboards.

This section of the log file explains the problem.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2024-02-05  16:28:25  48.00  100.0  100.0       0   82   1.2968  196.3
2024-02-05  16:28:26  48.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.2906  197.6
2024-02-05  16:28:27  48.00  100.0  100.0       0   82   1.2968  197.7
2024-02-05  16:28:28  48.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.2838  198.2
2024-02-05  16:28:29  48.00  100.0  100.0       0   82   1.2865  197.9
2024-02-05  16:28:30  48.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.2935  198.2
2024-02-05  16:28:31  42.71  100.0  100.0       0   51   0.6514  177.4   BDPRO
2024-02-05  16:28:32   8.00  100.0  100.0       0   44   0.6622   13.8   BDPRO
2024-02-05  16:28:33   8.63  100.0  100.0       0   69   1.2770   15.5
2024-02-05  16:28:34  48.00  100.0  100.0       0   82   1.2960  193.8
2024-02-05  16:28:35   8.80  100.0  100.0       0   44   0.6614   19.3   BDPRO
2024-02-05  16:28:36  46.32  100.0  100.0       0   82   1.2854  179.6
2024-02-05  16:28:37  12.72  100.0  100.0       0   45   0.6621   36.9   BDPRO
2024-02-05  16:28:38   8.00  100.0  100.0       0   43   0.6664   13.8   BDPRO

When the CPU is fully loaded (C0%=100.0), it is trying to use just under 200 Watts. After a few short seconds, the motherboard has a fit and starts cycling BD PROCHOT throttling on and off. This drastically reduces the CPU speed down to 800 MHz which is completely overkill. BD PROCHOT throttling is a terrible solution for this problem. Some manufacturers used this type of throttling on their low end motherboards. It was cheaper to throttle the CPU than spend extra money upgrading the power delivery components on the motherboard.

The Intel specifications show that a 10850K can run at up to 250W. That is not going to be possible on your motherboard. 200W is enough to trigger BD PROCHOT throttling so I would try reducing the power limits below that. Try setting MSR PL1 and PL2 to about 150W. This is a Band-Aid solution but I think it will give you better overall performance compared to the severe BD PROCHOT throttling that you have now.

Clear the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Open the TPL window and check the MMIO Lock box which is near the top on the right hand side. Set both MSR power limits to 150. Check both Clamp boxes so these power limits are strictly enforced.

This will prevent your CPU from trying to run at 200W. It will slow your CPU down a little bit when necessary but should not completely kill performance the way BD PROCHOT throttling does. Set the turbo ratios in the FIVR window to 48. I only need to set the top Ratios value to 48 and I set the Cores column to 10. This tells the CPU to always try and use the 48 multiplier.

The TPL window should look like this.

After you change these settings, turn on the Log File option and go try and play another game. If your computer crashes with these settings, restart and try lowering both power limits to 125. Delete the previous log file before you start doing any new testing.