Friday, November 2nd 2012

Sony PlayStation 4 "Orbis" Kits Shipping to Developers, Powered by AMD A10 APU

According to a VG 24/7 report, Sony began shipping development kits of its upcoming game console, PlayStation 4, codenamed "Orbis" to developers. The kit is described as being a "normal sized PC," driven by AMD A10 "Trinity" APU, and 8 or 16 GB of memory. We've known from reports dating back to April that Sony plans to use a combination of APU and discrete GPU, similar to today's Dual Graphics setups, where the APU graphics core works in tandem with discrete mid-range GPU. The design goal is to be able to play games 1920 x 1080 pixels resolution, with 60 Hz refresh rate, and with the ability to run stereo 3D at 60 Hz. For storage, the system has a combination of Blu-ray drive and 250 GB HDD. Sony's next-generation game console is expected to be unveiled "just before E3," 2013.


Source: VG 24/7
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354 Comments on Sony PlayStation 4 "Orbis" Kits Shipping to Developers, Powered by AMD A10 APU

#1
Benetanegia
MxPhenom 216 said:
No it doesn't. maybe in our desktops, but developers with consoles are able to optimize it so well, and squeeze every bit of power out of the system to be able to do it.
It still requires 4x the power to run 1080p60 vs 720p30...
Posted on Reply
#2
BigMack70
Benetanegia said:
It still requires 4x the power to run 1080p60 vs 720p30...
I don't think he understands such a simple point... he and mailman are making the point more complex by drawing inherent implications for a hardware comparison and so then they get confused and say it's wrong.

But the issue of 1080p60 vs 720p30 is a very simple one of basic math and nothing more.
Posted on Reply
#3
TheMailMan78
Big Member
BigMack70 said:
I don't think he understands such a simple point... he and mailman are making the point more complex by drawing inherent implications for a hardware comparison and so then they get confused and say it's wrong.

But the issue of 1080p60 vs 720p30 is a very simple one of basic math and nothing more.
You said you didn't think the APU could do what Sony claims and went of quoting various websites about dedicated GPU's. What I said is how things are done today is VASTLY different then 7+ years ago and that an APU can in fact meet Sony's claim as its well beyond your "4x" number due to optimization and engineering.
Posted on Reply
#4
jmcslob
OK Ok...
I think we should all get the effin point by now...
Apples to Apples it requires 4x the power to do 60fps @1080p than 30fps @720p
But it doesn't "Actually" take 4x the power because of architectural advancements and software development...
Posted on Reply
#5
Benetanegia
Also @ Mailman

When you compare an HD6000/7000 or GTX600 to RSX/Xenos or they desktop counterparts and say they are Xx faster, 7 years of iptimizations are there too. The GPU in Trinity is X amount faster optimizations included, not excluded.

But ultimmately I have no doubt the PS4 will use dedicated GPU, so it's a moot point.

jmcslob said:
But it doesn't "Actually" take 4x the power because of architectural advancements and software development...
Software has advanced for PS3 too tho. And "power" is intangible, but as a concept it will always actually require 4x the power. Now if we go by number of shader processors + clock frequency for example, yes less are probably required for the same as efficiency went up in these years, but like I said that's part of new generations being more "powerful".
Posted on Reply
#6
BigMack70
TheMailMan78 said:
You said you didn't think the APU could do what Sony claims and went of quoting various websites about dedicated GPU's. What I said is how things are done today is VASTLY different then 7+ years ago and that an APU can in fact meet Sony's claim as its well beyond your "4x" number due to optimization and engineering.
I think you just got upset that I picked on the wording of one of your posts :laugh:

And my speculation that they can't do what they claim on an APU is just as good as yours that it is. You have conjecture about how well they might be able to optimize things in a console-specific way, and I have PC benchmarks showing it's crazy. Who's right? We'll find out in a couple years.

Console manufacturers aren't exactly known for their forthrightness about what their consoles can do (see: claims about 1080p this generation and claims about PS4 being able to do "4k" next generation...) so it's not exactly crazy to think that they're making deceptive claims here too...
Posted on Reply
#7
1d10t
Dos101 said:
He's referring to the OtherOS feature that allowed you to install certain distro(s) of Linux iirc. It was advertised, then after that whole Geohot hacking thing with the PS3 Sony removed it with a firmware update, so some argues you can't remove an advertised feature like that. I agree, but some are more butthurt than others.
Owh...i get it.Yes,Sony did it since 3.70 firmware.they aware of some sort security flaws and mambo-jambo things that could exploit it's vulnerability.they change their EULA so that only Sony could read and banning inactive / shared PSN account.just think Sony as new Apple,but more girls in it :p
Posted on Reply
#8
MxPhenom 216
Corsair Fanboy
Benetanegia said:
It still requires 4x the power to run 1080p60 vs 720p30...
technically yes.
Posted on Reply
#9
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Benetanegia said:
Also @ Mailman

When you compare an HD6000/7000 or GTX600 to RSX/Xenos or they desktop counterparts and say they are Xx faster, 7 years of iptimizations are there too. The GPU in Trinity is X amount faster optimizations included, not excluded.

But ultimmately I have no doubt the PS4 will use dedicated GPU, so it's a moot point.
No its more I was comparing the RSX to the APU they are using. :laugh: He didn't/doesn't think the APU could do 60FPS in a console environment.

Wish you were here about 3 pages ago :laugh:

BigMack70 said:
I think you just got upset that I picked on the wording of one of your posts :laugh:

And my speculation that they can't do what they claim on an APU is just as good as yours that it is. You have conjecture about how well they might be able to optimize things in a console-specific way, and I have PC benchmarks showing it's crazy. Who's right? We'll find out in a couple years.

Console manufacturers aren't exactly known for their forthrightness about what their consoles can do (see: claims about 1080p this generation and claims about PS4 being able to do "4k" next generation...) so it's not exactly crazy to think that they're making deceptive claims here too...
Um no. I already said those benchmarks do not reflect what Sony is doing.....also some of those benches are BS in unto themselves.
Posted on Reply
#10
BigMack70
MxPhenom 216 said:
technically yes.
Someone finally gets it!!!!!!! :toast:

Didn't think such a simple and introduced-up-front-as-picky point would be so controversial...
Posted on Reply
#11
Benetanegia
TheMailMan78 said:
No its more I was comparing the RSX to the APU they are using. :laugh: He didn't/doesn't think the APU could do 60FPS in a console environment.

Wish you were here about 3 pages ago :laugh:
You're talking about different things man. I too think the APU can not even dream of approaching an stable minimum of 60 fps. Not even close.
Posted on Reply
#12
BigMack70
TheMailMan78 said:
No its more I was comparing the RSX to the APU they are using. :laugh: He didn't/doesn't think the APU could do 60FPS in a console environment.

Wish you were here about 3 pages ago :laugh:

Um no. I already said those benchmarks do not reflect what Sony is doing.....also some of those benches are BS in unto themselves.
And you have benchmarks that DO reflect what Sony is doing?

Nope.

You have speculation that they're going to be able to optimize something so well that it can do leaps and bounds better than it would do on a PC - to the extent that it may even surpass the highest end video cards currently available by a decent margin!

Like I said, neither speculation is inherently any better than the other. We won't know for a couple years which is correct.
Posted on Reply
#13
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Benetanegia said:
You're talking about different things man. I too think the APU can not even dream of approaching an stable minimum of 60 fps. Not even close.
So you don't think an APU is more powerful then a 7+ year old GPU? Because that's what you are saying.

BigMack70 said:
And you have benchmarks that DO reflect what Sony is doing?

Nope.

You have speculation that they're going to be able to optimize something so well that it can do leaps and bounds better than it would do on a PC - to the extent that it may even surpass the highest end video cards currently available by a decent margin!

Like I said, neither speculation is inherently any better than the other. We won't know for a couple years which is correct.
lol Games for the PC are ports man. NOTHING is optimized.
Posted on Reply
#14
Benetanegia
TheMailMan78 said:
So you don't think an APU is more powerful then a 7+ year old GPU?
Honestly, it's not much more powerful (once we factor in the higher resolution), but let's not start arguing about that. Anyway 7+ year GPU does NOT do 30 fps minimum. Current consoles often get lows of 15-20 fps.
Posted on Reply
#15
BigMack70
TheMailMan78 said:
So you don't think an APU is more powerful then a 7+ year old GPU?
That's a deceptively oversimplified question that leaves out too many variables e.g. that games are poised to become far more demanding than they are on the current console generation (see: Unreal Engine 4 etc) and that in addition to having more demanding games we're talking about making the jump from 720p30 to 1080p60.

Nobody in here is saying that an APU isn't more powerful than a 7 year old GPU. I and some others are saying that there's no way that it's so much more powerful that it will be able to make both those jumps - to substantially more demanding games and to a resolution/framerate 4x as demanding - at the same time.
Posted on Reply
#16
erocker
Benetanegia said:
Honestly, it's not much more powerful, but let's not start arguing about that. Anyway 7+ year GPU does NOT do 30 fps minimum. Current consoles often get lows of 15-20 fps.
Not to mention that many games don't even run at 720p. If I remember correctly GTA IV ran under 720p on the PS3 and was upscaled.

Either way this console is interesting, I'm looking forward to seeing how they squeeze performance out of an APU and a discreet card.

TheMailMan78 said:
So you don't think an APU is more powerful then a 7 year old GPU?
Most likely the GPU portion of the APU is about the same.
Posted on Reply
#17
TheMailMan78
Big Member
BigMack70 said:
That's a deceptively oversimplified question that leaves out too many variables e.g. that games are poised to become far more demanding than they are on the current console generation (see: Unreal Engine 4 etc) and that in addition to having more demanding games we're talking about making the jump from 720p30 to 1080p60.

Nobody in here is saying that an APU isn't more powerful than a 7 year old GPU. I and some others are saying that there's no way that it's so much more powerful that it will be able to make both those jumps - to substantially more demanding games and to a resolution/framerate 4x as demanding - at the same time.
Games are not gonna be that much more demanding. Sony and MS both have confirmed that they don't expect a massive graphical jump this generation. Expect more of the same, just smoother.

erocker said:



Most likely the GPU portion of the APU is about the same.
Depends on the APU.
Posted on Reply
#18
1d10t
MxPhenom 216 said:
LOL.

It says its at 1080p, but its upscaled, Games don't actually run at native 1080p on current gen consoles. Sorry to break it to yea.
BigMack70 said:
I hate to break it to you and be the one to shatter your inner console fan, but...
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Current consoles don't really render anything at 1080p. The 360 isn't even capable of true 1080p output and with the PS3, for anything even remotely demanding (99.9% of games), it likewise renders at ~720p and upscales.

Also, I think the # of people who have failed to understand I've been making a picky point about comparing the computing power needed for different resolutions/settings is up to 3 or 4.

*whoooooooooooooooooooosh* go my posts over your head.

There are implications in this discussion for 1080p60 vs 720p30, but my point hasn't been about those implications.

And I stand by my speculation about an APU not being able to do 1080p60. Your speculation that it can is as good as mine that it can't - it's all speculation right now - but I just don't believe their claims.
Exactly,that's the point!
For any "casual gamer" point of view,do they need REAL 1080p?Do they have sufficient knowledge about this?
You can muster everything regarding this scaled things,but to casual gamer they already satisfied found their TV shows 1080p/60Hz info
Posted on Reply
#19
BigMack70
TheMailMan78 said:
Games are not gonna be that much more demanding. Sony and MS both have confirmed that they don't expect a massive graphical jump this generation.
Again, speculation. I'd say that Unreal Engine 4 poses problems for this position.
Posted on Reply
#20
TheMailMan78
Big Member
BigMack70 said:
Again, speculation. I'd say that Unreal Engine 4 poses problems for this position.
Its not speculation. Sony and MS have already confirmed it.
Posted on Reply
#21
Benetanegia
TheMailMan78 said:
Games are not gonna be that much more demanding. Sony and MS both have confirmed that they don't expect a massive graphical jump this generation.
If that's true, they are gonna fail hard imo. If 720p vs 1080p is the only thing they expect to change, who's really going to spend the cash on a new console? Fanboys, no one else. Most people already waited 2-3 years until they bought PS3/XB360 and the difference with the previous ones was massive...
Posted on Reply
#22
erocker
TheMailMan78 said:
Depends on the APU.
Ya think?
Posted on Reply
#23
BigMack70
1d10t said:
Exactly,that's the point!
For any "casual gamer" point of view,do they need REAL 1080p?Do they have sufficient knowledge about this?
You can muster everything regarding this scaled things,but to casual gamer they already satisfied found their TV shows 1080p/60Hz info
What's your point? You got on here and posted some comparison screenshots that I pointed out were irrelevant. Then you posted a screenshot of your PS3 to supposedly argue against my point that your downsized screenshots were irrelevant.

Who here is talking about casual gamers and what they care about?

The topic of conversation is "Can the PS4 render at 1080p60"... not "Do casual console kiddies care if their games are rendered at 1080p or rendered at 720p and upscaled?"
Posted on Reply
#24
BigMack70
TheMailMan78 said:
Its not speculation. Sony and MS have already confirmed it.
So we can confirm that Sony and MS have speculated that they don't expect a massive graphical leap this generation... See where I'm going with this?

If there's anything to their speculation, it's that they know that they're going to be putting out crap hardware specs that can't handle a graphical leap.
Posted on Reply
#25
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Benetanegia said:
If that's true, they are gonna fail hard imo. If 720p vs 1080p is the only thing they expect to change, who's really going to spend the cash on a new console? Fanboys, no one else. Most people already waited 2-3 years until they bought PS3/XB360 and the difference with the previous ones was massive...
Yeah man they have said they (gamers) have come to expect a certain level of graphics and they (MS/Sony) do not want to mess with the formula. Kinda why fix what aint broken scenario. Does it suck? Yeah but that's why this generation has lasted so long. People are content now.

erocker said:
Ya think?
I try not to.

BigMack70 said:
So we can confirm that Sony and MS have speculated that they don't expect a massive graphical leap this generation... See where I'm going with this?

If there's anything to their speculation, it's that they know that they're going to be putting out crap hardware specs that can't handle a graphical leap.
Cliffy B left Epic. Don't know what you are expecting.
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