buggalugsTrust me, without Nvidia, we would be paying $1,000 for highend AMD GPUs and not seeing new cards for 18 months or more,

Fixed that for you. At the end of the day, both companies exist to bring as much bacon home as possible.

The 7970Ghz edition forced Nvidia back to the factory to rush out the 780,

It did what? No... no it didnt. The 7970 Ghz edition with the new drivers tends to trade punches with a 680 depending on what site, what game, and what settings are used. At TPU a stock 680 beats the 7970 by 1% at 1080p res.

A stock 780 beats the tar out of the 7970 performance wise...to the tune of almost 20% here at TPU too.

I like the message, but it seems like you got lucky with the result as the data being presented to prove your point is a bit ehh.. off.

FourstaffFixed that for you. At the end of the day, both companies exist to bring as much bacon home as possible.

What?!!! :wtf:

qubitWhat?!!! :wtf:

We all know both companies are stuffed full with geeks coding and designing the next best chip. Well, geeks (aka internet people) loves bacons (and cats), so might as well cut the chase.

qubitWhat?!!! :wtf:

Meaning that in the end they are about making money. Both of them.

FourstaffWe all know both companies are stuffed full with geeks coding and designing the next best chip. Well, geeks (aka internet people) loves bacons (and cats), so might as well cut the chase.

I love neither! And I hate cats. Seriously, they're assholes ALL OF THEM.

Perhaps he would recognize 'cheddar' as money instead of bacon? :p

I guess "bring home the bacon" didn't make it across the pond. :roll:

I find it hilarious that people are complaining about the price. Let's go over a couple facts:

1) Titan is a $1000 beast. Is it overpriced? Absolutely, but so is even "top" card. There isn't a single best in category part that ISN'T overpriced. If you want the "best" case it's going to be 2-3x as expensive, if you want the "best" SSD setup (in raid) it is going to be super expensive. Best in slot (as we call gear upgrades in WoW) will always be expensive. How expensive is going to continue to go up with inflation over time because as a general rule everything else has gotten considerably cheaper.

2) The current overclocked 780 GTX cards are $660-$700, so we aren't really looking at any significant price difference at all assuming the 780ti is at least as good as a overclocked 780. We can pretty safely assume this even without official specs because nVidia wouldn't be able to increase the price at all if it didn't beat out the aftermarket cards like the EVGA superclocked or classified.

Now for some speculation:

If this does turn out to be a fully enabled gk110 and/or an overclocked Titan with 6gb of ram then at $700 is a STEAL. That would mean that for $1400 (1.4x the price of a Titan) you could run a SLI setup with two of the fastest cards on the market AND get two game bundles (1 to keep and 1 to sell or gift). That's a lot less than $2k like an SLI Titan would have run and who knows what will happen with the aftermarket branded 780ti. I'll take a couple EVGA 780ti superclocked or classified in a heartbeat.

Not to mention if the regular aftermarket overclocked cards drop to $500ish (which perform on par with the 290x and still come with the game bundle) then you have a card that runs cooler and quieter, still has room to overclock (a little) and saves a little money.

I'm super pumped about this, I won't make my decision on what to buy until the final specs are out and I can run some math but nVidia is making some good decisions...

buggalugsThe 7970 was the biggest performance jump from previous generation in at least the last decade. That goes for both AMD and Nvidia cards.

:laugh:

How could anyone forget the 8800GTX (2006) so quickly? that one stands out really far for me as obliterating the generation before it.

The GTX280 (2008) did a damn good job of that too if memory serves.

The proof is in the pudding if you don't believe me, the pudding being TPU's delicious, chocolatey reviews.

I'm not taking away from anything AMD did or has just done, but that was a bold call that simply isn't true.

FrickI love neither! And I hate cats. Seriously, they're assholes ALL OF THEM.

LOL :laugh:

FrickMeaning that in the end they are about making money. Both of them.

Perfectly said! They exist to make money, and will charge whatever the market will bear them selling at. I would do the same if I had a product to sell. I would not be trying to make sure everyone in the world could afford my product, because at the end of the day I've got my own life to take care of.

This isn't so much improving competition more just a price drop on Titan in a roundabout way. It's face saving... Titan will be permitted to fade with a legacy of 6 months but not just yet EoL although swiftly relinquishes it as an antiquity. Memorable but priced $600 more at the time than the 7970Ghz with about 20% in performance meaning it performance to dollar was 73% behind the 7970Ghz. IT's legacy should not be any big deal.

As with Titan... or this new SKU of it, it really will do little to change the competitive landscape if still priced $150 more than a R9 290X.

This and the pricing tumble of the GTX780 tell me Nvidia realizes Hawaii production is "all-in" with full-run of starts at TSMC and imaginably good yields. I just by chance wonder if a better power/watts than these first run silicon that went into just these reference cooler cards might be succeeding? Could it been that TSMC didn’t give AMD didn’t get the best first risk production run and AMD had to go to market with what they got? Could we see in at the end of November AIB’s working off improved production silicon?

Something tells me Nvidia knows there's trouble on the way and especially with a R9 290 (non-X) and why they didn't just go the expected 10-12%, but went straight to a 22-24%. I think Nvidia's hope is to unload their geldings before the end of November, at which point AMD AIB's release a full gambit of R9 290X and Non-X into the market.

FourstaffWe all know both companies are stuffed full with geeks coding and designing the next best chip. Well, geeks (aka internet people) loves bacons (and cats), so might as well cut the chase.

FrickMeaning that in the end they are about making money. Both of them.

Hey guys I'm just messin' that I'm "shocked" that both companies are just in it for the money, lol. :)

be happy..... people who are not sold on the 290X can get a Titan+ for much cheaper than a Titan, be grateful for something at least.:D

MaousI'm very much excited to see amd finally catch up after all this time. Now hold on to your butts (excuse the jurassic Park reference) but let me take you on a little bit of Nvidia chip history starting with Fermi for simplicity's sake since it was recent.

Your post is perfectly fine aside from one tiny problem. I don't know why but you believe that releasing a new GPU architecture is like eating a piece of cake in the morning, um, no, Kepler cost NVIDIA over $100 million in development and they want to capitalize as much as possible from it.

I'd actually praise NVIDIA for having designed such a versatile and flexible architecture which can be tuned and pose a real threat to the competition in no time.

CasecutterThis isn't so much improving competition more just a price drop on Titan in a roundabout way. It's face saving... Titan will be permitted to fade with a legacy of 6 months but not just yet EoL although swiftly relinquishes it as an antiquity. Memorable but priced $600 more at the time than the 7970Ghz with about 20% in performance meaning it performance to dollar was 73% behind the 7970Ghz. IT's legacy should not be any big deal.

Sane people have never bought top of the GPU line - a much better investment would have been a SLI tandem of two GTX 660 (ti).

So, all this talk about how NVIDIA has raped its customers is annoying and lame.

birdieSo, all this talk about how NVIDIA has raped its customers is annoying and lame.

Did I say someone was maltreated against their will? Nobody forces folks to spend $1000, they do it willingly. I simply pointed out the metric of performance/cost, how anyone interprets/justifies it I don't get into.

To Hell with this stupid card, if it was 599$ it would've made much more sense.

Now it's way to expensive for AMD to care, so no price drops on Rx 200 series in the high end. It's also mostly irrelevant, seeing as how 20nm is getting closer and closer... so I don't think AMD would bother with a R9 290XT... or R9 295X or whatever... not to say that R9 290X (especially once custom versions hit the market) will have much of a problem besting it in most situations, to begin with.

Tatty_Onebe happy..... people who are not sold on the 290X can get a Titan+ for much cheaper than a Titan, be grateful for something at least.:D

Eh. I'd never be grateful for corporations playing us like tools in a toolbox and, for the lack of a better word, abusing our (so called) needs.

But I would be excited (and I kinda am) to be able to get a better setup for my gaming rig for less money tho. So in a indirect sense, some (well, a lot of) evil is better than only evil.

NeoXF20nm is getting closer and closer...

TSMC spokeswoman Elizabeth Sun, "TSMC will begin 20 nanometer process production in the first quarter of next year and the new operation will contribute to its revenues from the second quarter".
From that some indicate at earilest we might see a GPU card is perhap June 2014; but some are perdicting the bulk of card releases might end up being late summer-fall timeline.

CasecutterTSMC spokeswoman Elizabeth Sun, "TSMC will begin 20 nanometer process production in the first quarter of next year and the new operation will contribute to its revenues from the second quarter".
From that some indicate at earilest we might see a GPU card is perhap June 2014; but some are perdicting the bulk of card releases might end up being late summer-fall timeline.

You know what they say (I think)... no matter how far off something is, it sure as acid rain is closer than it was 6 months ago...

For those complaining about the Titan's price, does the AMD R9 290X have the capabilities of a FirePro card for a fraction of the price?

No?

Then quit your whining. The Titan is a baby Quadro for all intents and purposes for about a third of the price. Why gamers were buying it I have no idea, but if you're a graphic designer who happens to game, the Titan is the best product for you.

SlizzoFor those complaining about the Titan's price, does the AMD R9 290X have the capabilities of a FirePro card for a fraction of the price?

No?

Then quit your whining. The Titan is a baby Quadro for all intents and purposes for about a third of the price. Why gamers were buying it I have no idea, but if you're a graphic designer who happens to game, the Titan is the best product for you.

Actually it has unlocked DP just like GK110 Titan.. Same with 7970 full DP 1tflop/s


But in nvidia eyes its price premium and needed 1k $ price tag lol:laugh:

1d10tTo be honest i'm absolutely confused with nVidia.They released $700 GTX 780Ti out of nowhere and beating his own $1000 card?



Suppose nVidia did,will you pay 2 grand for it?

780Ti is faster in Single precision and games, but it will be slower in Double Precision.. Same crippled DP like by 780GTX ~ 190-200 gflops/s, so Titan "can" stay as it is.

Imo Titan was never really worth it, lol only for e-peen most of the time, if I want DP cheap then I'll just get one 7970GHz or 280X :D

TheHunterActually it has unlocked DP just like GK110 Titan.. Same with 7970 full DP 1tflop/s

Not sure but found this...

We've also come to learn that AMD changed the double-precision rate from 1/4 to 1/8 on the R9 290X, yielding a maximum .7 TFLOPS. The FirePro version of this configuration will support full-speed (1/2 rate) DP compute, giving professional users an incentive to spring for Hawaii's professional implementation.

www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290x-hawaii-review,3650.html

Isn't it a bit ironic how NVIDIA will launch a card that's faster yet name it lower down the range? I'd have thought something like Titan Ultra would have been a great name for it and make for great marketing. I'd certainly like to own something with that name.

I sometimes think people forget that Nvidia is a business that needs to make a profit and we as customers don't have the right to determine how much money they make of each product. We do have the right to choose what we buy. It amazes me, that a company which has made a unique, world leading product, that no one else has managed to produce, gets so much flak for charging a premium price for it. Do people really think that customers should decide how much they charge for their top end cards? Should Nvidia really make sure that most people can afford a Titan? The choice is simple. If AMD made a GPU with the price and performance you like, buy that. If Nvidia do, buy that instead. Simples!

The word "rape" is being thrown around quite a bit here. It's completely pointless to use it, people that have bought nVidia's cards wanted them, otherwise they'd have sprung for AMD.

nVidia charges a premium for their GPU's. I don't care. If I felt the value I got out of a card was worth the price I would buy it. I jumped to ATI when the 5870 launched, and I'm still pleased by its performance (not for long) and I am just as likely to return to nVidia as I am to snag an AMD card (which is likely; price to performance) when I build my new PC.

The ATI/AMD v. nVidia debate is stale, whether talking performance or price. Get what you want. Don't bring rape into it, rape is a horrible thing.