Wednesday, March 22nd 2017

AMD Sues the Mobileverse: Claims LG, Mediatek, Others Infringe on its GPU IP

This is an unusual article to cover at Techpowerup: We don't usually do mobile stuff. Nevertheless, when a household name like AMD strikes out against some household names in the mobile verse such as LG, Mediatek, Vizio, Sigma, and such, we probably should cover it. AMD's financial wellbeing is important to competitiveness and all, right?
Ok, so what's the issue? Mainly, graphics patents, and intellectual property. AMD thinks ARM Holdings GPU designs infringe on their graphics technology portfolio. Wait, ARM Holdings? Why not sue them? According to the source article, it's due to the convoluted way Intellectual Property law works. In short, because ARM licenses their GPU tech to other companies who build it (ARM Holdings doesn't make anything, it's an idea-house/design farm), it's easier to sue a finalized product with an infringing GPU included than someone who is peddling an idea of a product that would infringe if it were ever made. So, they start things off suing the end vendor, Mediatek, who makes several chipsets incorporating the GPU-principles in question, and of course also the biggest phone vendors currently using those chipsets (South Korean giant LG, among some other minor phone builders).

This is not a small lawsuit by any means, and it could get bigger. AMD has specifically stated in its complaint that this is only an example of Infringement and not the complete subject matter. In other words, if they win, they can sue more people based on this should they choose to do so.

As a mere bystander who uses both mobile phones and PC products daily, I'm sort of torn by this news. On one hand, I love AMD. On the other hand, this feels to me like a patent troll attempt of sorts, but then I remind myself AMD has actually spent years developing graphics technology and they do have a right to defend those exclusive technologies. I guess I need more information on what exactly is infringing. Information has not exactly been forthcoming with this case in regard to technical details, unfortunately.

Regardless, AMD is seeking a cease and desist order to stop the import and sale of the products involved in the USA, so they aren't playing soft with the mobile companies by any means. The gloves are off. I guess the question to be asked here is whether or not that is justified. Source: XDA-developers
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31 Comments on AMD Sues the Mobileverse: Claims LG, Mediatek, Others Infringe on its GPU IP

#1
dorsetknob
"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
AMD Probably been chasing acknowledgment of ip and royalties for a long time behind the sceans while company's like Mediatek and LG have hoped AMD goes to the WALL thus ending/Reducing the threat of litigation.
Posted on Reply
#2
G33k2Fr34k
To follow in Nvidia's footsteps is the worst thing they can do now. But given how AMD's management is full of retards, I'm not surprised.

Only a dumb AMD would sell an 8 core CPU for $320 and market it as a gaming product when it absolutely not. These 8 core CPUs don't even get utilized past 35% in the latest games.
Posted on Reply
#4
R-T-B
silentbogo, post: 3625025, member: 141875"
Not this again...
BTW, this is an over-a-month old news, and so far no developments.

Same deal as an "unfortunate" NVidia lawsuit against Samsung and Qualcomm
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/216109-nvidia-infringement-claims-against-samsung-qualcomm-tossed

Worth ignoring, since it's not going anywhere.
I will admit, I missed that Raevenlord had already partially covered this. That said, that NVIDIA and Samsung/Qualcomm lawsuit was very worth covering: IIRC, Samsung is now reaming NVIDIA legally because of it.

It's strange that this "month old" news is popping up as fresh news across several sites though, in my defense. That said, from what I've read, this lawsuit is gaining far more momentum than the Nvidia one (US ITC is involved now), I wouldn't count on it completely disappearing.
Posted on Reply
#5
HisDivineOrder
Remember when nVidia sued Samsung and every troll came out of the woodwork to complain about how nVidia is just a troll?

How many of those same people are going to now complain that AMD is not in fact a patent troll?

It's no surprise, though. AMD was bound to want a piece of the pie and mobile is a pie they can't eat otherwise without patent trolling.
Posted on Reply
#6
dorsetknob
"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
Amd are not a patent troll
they developed the IP
they used the IP
they licenced the ip to Others ( for Payment ie Royalitys )
They Deserve to benefit from ip they developed
patent trolls just acquire IP for the purpose of extracting payment from others
Posted on Reply
#7
birdie
dorsetknob, post: 3625049, member: 8331"
Amd are not a patent troll
they developed the IP
they used the IP
they licenced the ip to Others ( for Payment ie Royalitys )
They Deserve to benefit from ip they developed
patent trolls just acquire IP for the purpose of extracting payment from others
Oh, yeah, if it's NVIDIA, they are abusing their market position, they are patent trolls, they are anti-competitive, they are milking their customers and shat.

If it's AMD, they are just restoring justice.

Double standards 24x7.
Posted on Reply
#8
silentbogo
R-T-B, post: 3625037, member: 41983"
I will admit, I missed that Raevenlord had already partially covered this. That said, that NVIDIA and Samsung/Qualcomm lawsuit was very worth covering: IIRC, Samsung is now reaming NVIDIA legally because of it.

It's strange that this "month old" news is popping up as fresh news across several sites though, in my defense. That said, from what I've read, this lawsuit is gaining far more momentum than the Nvidia one (US ITC is involved now), I wouldn't count on it completely disappearing.
Not as much with ITC, but probably more with Samsung on the "good side".
The core of the problem is the same: AMD's claims are generalized, like the NVidia ones were.
"Parallel Pipeline" and "Programmable shaders" are a part of almost every existing GPU, so it'll be hard to prove that someone was infringing something without narrowing down the implementation of both, and forcing the defendant to disclose what they have under the hood (which will eventually be ARM, currently not involved in the case). I doubt it will go that far.

HisDivineOrder, post: 3625046, member: 136874"
It's no surprise, though. AMD was bound to want a piece of the pie and mobile is a pie they can't eat otherwise without patent trolling.
According to earlier speculations it's not about mobile market or even patent infringement itself. It's about delaying/eliminating the competitors before finalizing all details of an IP licensing deal with China.
Posted on Reply
#9
ensabrenoir
....Don't think this is a smart move.....
Posted on Reply
#10
TheGuruStud
birdie, post: 3625056, member: 131299"
Oh, yeah, if it's NVIDIA, they are abusing their market position, they are patent trolls, they are anti-competitive, they are milking their customers and shat.

If it's AMD, they are just restoring justice.

Double standards 24x7.
That depends on what the patents are. If they're a joke like Apple's baloney, then it is anti-competitive and trolling.

Nvidia gave themselves their reputation. They deserve any and all flak.
Posted on Reply
#11
dorsetknob
"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
birdie
Not going to bite
If your trying to Start a flamewar By Draging Nvidia into an AMD Thread That will not work with Me
Have a Reasonably nice Day
Posted on Reply
#12
theGryphon
TheGuruStud, post: 3625065, member: 42692"
That depends on what the patents are. If they're a joke like Apple's baloney, then it is anti-competitive and trolling.
This.

Patents and IP are real and they need to be protected. However, the breach must also be real for it to be penalized. Only ensuring both will lead to actual progress of knowledge.
Posted on Reply
#13
evernessince
G33k2Fr34k, post: 3625024, member: 161823"
To follow in Nvidia's footsteps is the worst thing they can do now. But given how AMD's management is full of retards, I'm not surprised.

Only a dumb AMD would sell an 8 core CPU for $320 and market it as a gaming product when it absolutely not. These 8 core CPUs don't even get utilized past 35% in the latest games.
They didn't market it as a gaming CPU... They only showed that it could game well. They marketed it as a productivity / professional CPU. FYI 10% less performance than the 7700K still makes it better then a majority or Intel's gaming CPUs. Are you going to stop calling everything but Intel's top dog suitable for gaming?

The double standards...
Posted on Reply
#14
1c3d0g
G33k2Fr34k, post: 3625024, member: 161823"
To follow in Nvidia's footsteps is the worst thing they can do now. But given how AMD's management is full of retards, I'm not surprised.

...
- Lisa Su (AMD CEO) has a PhD from MIT in electrical engineering;
- Chekib Akrout (Senior Vice President, Global Operations), has a bachelor's degree in physics from the University Pierre & Marie Curie in France and a PhD in electronics and physics;
- Jim Anderson (Senior Vice President and General Manager) has a MBA and Master of Science in electrical engineering and computer science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a Master of Science in electrical engineering from Purdue University and a Bachelor of Science in electrical engineering from the University of Minnesota. Additionally he has 4 patents for innovations in computer architecture.;
- Forrest Norrod (Senior Vice President and General Manager, Enterprise) holds Bachelor of Science and Master of Science degrees in electrical engineering from Virginia Tech and holds 11 US patents in computer architecture, graphics and system design;
- Mark Papermaster (Chief Technology Officer and Senior Vice President) has a bachelor’s degree from the University of Texas at Austin and master’s degree from the University of Vermont, both in Electrical Engineering.

Do I have to keep going? I'm a fervent Intel supporter, but let's not slide to such a low level and start calling people retards, as they're clearly not. :shadedshu:

Question: What kind of relevant degrees do you hold to formulate the above mentioned statement on AMD's management?
Posted on Reply
#15
Foobario
Samsung is already paying royalties to AMD for the IP that is the basis of this lawsuit.

AMD hasn't had the cash to pursue all the companies that have been infringing on their patents for years. Things have changed a bit on the cash front. Now they are able to seek justice.

This is the first step in AMD's plan to monetize their patent portfolio. Right now, some or all, of the defendants are probably already sitting down to discuss a settlement for past IP thefts and signing licensing agreements for future sales.

Before AMD's legal team started down this path it would make sense that they reviewed what the court views as frivolous, such as Nvidia's recent lawsuit. So they apparently feel their case has more merit and were willing to incur the upfront legal costs.
Posted on Reply
#16
jigar2speed
HisDivineOrder, post: 3625046, member: 136874"
Remember when nVidia sued Samsung and every troll came out of the woodwork to complain about how nVidia is just a troll?

How many of those same people are going to now complain that AMD is not in fact a patent troll?

It's no surprise, though. AMD was bound to want a piece of the pie and mobile is a pie they can't eat otherwise without patent trolling.
Cause AMD is just like Canada, if you get sued by AMD or bombed by Canada, I am pretty sure you are seriously doing something very wrong.
Posted on Reply
#17
G33k2Fr34k
1c3d0g, post: 3625134, member: 46143"
- Lisa Su (AMD CEO) has a PhD from MIT in electrical engineering;
- Chekib Akrout (Senior Vice President, Global Operations), has a bachelor's degree in physics from the University Pierre & Marie Curie in France and a PhD in electronics and physics;
- Jim Anderson (Senior Vice President and General Manager) has a MBA and Master of Science in electrical engineering and computer science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a Master of Science in electrical engineering from Purdue University and a Bachelor of Science in electrical engineering from the University of Minnesota. Additionally he has 4 patents for innovations in computer architecture.;
- Forrest Norrod (Senior Vice President and General Manager, Enterprise) holds Bachelor of Science and Master of Science degrees in electrical engineering from Virginia Tech and holds 11 US patents in computer architecture, graphics and system design;
- Mark Papermaster (Chief Technology Officer and Senior Vice President) has a bachelor’s degree from the University of Texas at Austin and master’s degree from the University of Vermont, both in Electrical Engineering.

Do I have to keep going? I'm a fervent Intel supporter, but let's not slide to such a low level and start calling people retards, as they're clearly not. :shadedshu:

Question: What kind of relevant degrees do you hold to formulate the above mentioned statement on AMD's management?

Yeah... having a degree in engineering or computer science doesn't make you good at making decision.
-Pricing the R7 1700 at $320 and the 1800X at $500 when the 1700 is almost as fast the 1800X is DUMB.
-Selling +$200 motherboards for chips that don't overlock is DUMB.
-Marketing these 8 core CPUs as gemming products when they're absolutely not is DUMB.
Do I have to keep going?
Posted on Reply
#18
theGryphon
G33k2Fr34k, post: 3625170, member: 161823"
Yeah... having a degree in engineering or computer science doesn't make you good at making decision.
-Pricing the R7 1700 at $320 and the 1800X at $500 when the 1700 is almost as fast the 1800X is DUMB.
-Selling +$200 motherboards for chips that don't overlock is DUMB.
-Marketing these 8 core CPUs as gemming products when they're absolutely not is DUMB.
Do I have to keep going?
OK, they did not market these products as gemming, or rather gaming, products. Where did you get that? They just showcased that you can play 4K games on them at comparable performance with Intel parts.
Pricing-wise, you're wrong, it's not dumb, it's called price differentiation through market segmentation, a very healthy way to increase revenues as practiced by, let's see, pretty much every company out there...

Which brings us to the real question: What are your qualifications to pass judgement on these things so flatly? I mean without anything to back your "DUMB" plugs, your "Do I have to keep going?" carries no weight...
Posted on Reply
#19
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
G33k2Fr34k, post: 3625170, member: 161823"
Yeah... having a degree in engineering or computer science doesn't make you good at making decision.
-Pricing the R7 1700 at $320 and the 1800X at $500 when the 1700 is almost as fast the 1800X is DUMB.
-Selling +$200 motherboards for chips that don't overlock is DUMB.
-Marketing these 8 core CPUs as gemming products when they're absolutely not is DUMB.
Do I have to keep going?
[citation needed], unless of course it is a subjective opinion, but on the internet nothing is subjective so I am just going to assume this is objective. I know my opinions are fact, so I assume yours are as well. I probably have fewer facts, but they are important.

Anyway, AMD is most definitely not a patent troll by any sane definition. Un-sane definitions are the shockingly common ones in which a patent troll is any entity who engages in any kind of IP litigation. We'll see how it plays out.
Posted on Reply
#20
Fluffmeister
ensabrenoir, post: 3625059, member: 83675"
....Don't think this is a smart move.....
It's hard to feel sorry for a multi-billion dollar corp.

Still nice payday for the lawyers.
Posted on Reply
#21
Readlight
LG good loking, ok quality but gets fast brok takes out all whatts maks price lower. i hate them they only can make good sreans.
Posted on Reply
#22
TheLaughingMan
Fluffmeister, post: 3625179, member: 101373"
It's hard to feel sorry for a multi-billion dollar corp.

Still nice payday for the lawyers.
Corp lawyers aren't paid by the hour or the case like the ones that ripe off everyday working people when they have a car accident. They are paid on retainer and salary. This is just work for them, not some "I'm going be rich." payday. And while AMD holds assets estimated to be worth 3ish billion, they have been loosing 400 to 500 million in operational cost for years. They are not exact swimming in money.
Posted on Reply
#23
Fluffmeister
Suing everyone and rebranding everything, they are learning.

Good luck to them.
Posted on Reply
#24
Fx
dorsetknob, post: 3625049, member: 8331"
Amd are not a patent troll
they developed the IP
they used the IP
they licenced the ip to Others ( for Payment ie Royalitys )
They Deserve to benefit from ip they developed
patent trolls just acquire IP for the purpose of extracting payment from others
+1
Posted on Reply
#25
Jism
G33k2Fr34k, post: 3625170, member: 161823"
Yeah... having a degree in engineering or computer science doesn't make you good at making decision.
-Pricing the R7 1700 at $320 and the 1800X at $500 when the 1700 is almost as fast the 1800X is DUMB.
-Selling +$200 motherboards for chips that don't overlock is DUMB.
-Marketing these 8 core CPUs as gemming products when they're absolutely not is DUMB.
Do I have to keep going?
You just won a personal darnwin award. Why dont you go take an application and show how it's done? Why dont you be head of developing a Ryzen chip and lead different engineers with different classes? Why dont you be head of sales and start promoting to the IT world in both enterprise and consumer?

Why dont you tell us likewise, and show how it's done?

Lol.
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