EarthDogit will last through its warranty at least... again, if it was harmful to run that hot, intel would have lowred the throttling temp. As it stands, thats 100c...and shutdown is, guessing here, 110c.

4ghz on Average, yet weve seen 4.7 and 4.8 so far... im sure 4.5ghz is in the cards with aio cooling and reasonable voltages...

The problem is that those high temps will degrade the overclocking potential overtime, let's say if the CPU could achieve 4.7 ghz sitting on 1.25v it will start having BSODs and you'll need a higher voltage to make it stable leading to a even more higher temperatures, makes sense why they did this though, if it was soldered people could achieve easily 400+ watts tdp and that could technically burn the entire motherboard, there's a lot involved.

This overclocking outrage is nonsense, it's still better at overclocking that the (upcoming) counterparts from AMD.

cadavecaThe one with the paste, that can be subjected to those "harsh" conditions, is all that much of a higher quality.

Are you saying soldered CPUs can't put up with the same thermal strain as a paste cpu?

This is a legit question by the way. I've heard rumors about "microcracks" and such and am unsure what to think on that front.

R-T-BAre you saying soldered CPUs can't put up with the same thermal strain as a paste cpu?

This is a legit question by the way. I've heard rumors about "microcracks" and such and am unsure what to think on that front.

Solder is perfectly fine under cpu temperatures.

Intel TIM is worse for power consumption as well btw. Less heat conductivity, means more heat, which means lower efficiency which means more power is required.

Hugh MungusIntel TIM is worse for power consumption as well btw. Less heat conductivity, means more heat, which means lower efficiency which means more power is required.

What?
How does conductivity negatively impact efficiency?
And BTW, i9-7900X overclocks just fine.

efikkanWhat?
How does conductivity negatively impact efficiency?
And BTW, i9-7900X overclocks just fine.

Can we just ignore the overclocks for a second? Intel cpu's would overclock better if they had been soldered and could have higher baseclocks. Lower heat conductivity-> less heat transfer-> higher resistance-> more power required for same result. Simple.

cadavecaI will gladly take my 7900X and de-lid and prove that. I've got more than one. Heck, I'll do them all just to prove a point. I don't pay for this stuff, so I don't give a flying ... I just need to keep one with its top because I swap boards like every week working on reviews.

Well, I for one would like to see this. If you are serious, let me know and let's see what we can make happen.

Sorry, CMIIW, is it Core i9 have ever shown on intel roadmap?

If not, can't wait for next Core i11 with LakeLakeXxX codename, it will be much better for sure.

Rahmat SofyanSorry, CMIIW, is it Core i9 have ever shown on intel roadmap?

If not, can't wait for next Core i11 with LakeLakeXxX codename, it will be much better for sure.

Roadmap is where companies introduce architecture/product codename.
Core i-X, Geforce GTX-XXX, R-X are brand names. Whatever catchy name marketing team deemed the best.

VSGWell, I for one would like to see this. If you are serious, let me know and let's see what we can make happen.

Of course I'm serious. I'm sure I can afford to; it just so happens I have these laying around doing nothing... :p We'll chat.

Hugh MungusIntel cpu's would overclock less well if they had been soldered

Perhaps you meant to say the opposite... because the opposite is true. Well, not by much but... yeah.

cadavecaNo. Just no. Better TIM might have lowered temps a little, but not enough to affect power consumption in such a way as to affect clocking ability. It simply doesn't work that way. What sort of power drop are you expecting from changing paste? higher clocks = higher power use; so how many watts per 100 MHz these CPUs use?


I will gladly take my 7900X and de-lid and prove that. I've got more than one. Heck, I'll do them all just to prove a point. I don't pay for this stuff, so I don't give a flying ... I just need to keep one with its top because I swap boards like every week working on reviews.


I'd be happy if I never saw another CPU with solder. I'd much rather buy a CPU that can work just fine with paste and can run a little bit hot, but is fine, compared to a CPU that requires solder right out of the box. The one with the paste, that can be subjected to those "harsh" conditions, is all that much of a higher quality.


Hey, maybe these CPUs are ones that makes me say de-lid is worth it. I don't see it as worth it with the mainstream Intel CPUs, but if it truly matters with these, I have no problem saying so.

QFT...

Wondering what I will do with mine... they just got here today... :(

KyuubaThe problem is that those high temps will degrade the overclocking potential overtime, let's say if the CPU could achieve 4.7 ghz sitting on 1.25v it will start having BSODs and you'll need a higher voltage to make it stable leading to a even more higher temperatures, makes sense why they did this though, if it was soldered people could achieve easily 400+ watts tdp and that could technically burn the entire motherboard, there's a lot involved.

Zzzzzzzzzz, you overclock, there are risks. But as I said, I'll gladly run it up there all day long as I have done before. It will last its warranty period... not worried. I don't keep these for more than a few years anyway. ;)

lol the amount of ignorant BS coming out of some people's mouths.
:lovetpu:



@cadaveca I Haven't played with you since BC2/BF3. can't wait to see what you get with those chips :toast:

Scrizzlol the amount of ignorant BS coming out of some people's mouths.

Then educate. No irony; as i type it.

AenraThen educate. No irony; as i type it.

These aren't things that can be explained in a simple post or article.
The problem is the people that think they are "experts" because they read about it in some online "article" and then spreading all the misinformation as fact.
I'm not pointing any fingers here just stating what I see.

EarthDogZzzzzzzzzz, you overclock, there are risks. But as I said, I'll gladly run it up there all day long as I have done before. It will last its warranty period... not worried. I don't keep these for more than a few years anyway. ;)

Same, that's why i buy FE cards with a full speed fan curve instead of customs :D

cadavecaNo. Just no. Better TIM might have lowered temps a little, but not enough to affect power consumption in such a way as to affect clocking ability. It simply doesn't work that way. What sort of power drop are you expecting from changing paste? higher clocks = higher power use; so how many watts per 100 MHz these CPUs use?


I will gladly take my 7900X and de-lid and prove that. I've got more than one. Heck, I'll do them all just to prove a point. I don't pay for this stuff, so I don't give a flying ... I just need to keep one with its top because I swap boards like every week working on reviews.


I'd be happy if I never saw another CPU with solder. I'd much rather buy a CPU that can work just fine with paste and can run a little bit hot, but is fine, compared to a CPU that requires solder right out of the box. The one with the paste, that can be subjected to those "harsh" conditions, is all that much of a higher quality.


Hey, maybe these CPUs are ones that makes me say de-lid is worth it. I don't see it as worth it with the mainstream Intel CPUs, but if it truly matters with these, I have no problem saying so.

Oh I'll gladly pay for a death match, OCed to the extreme (review) :D

Your point makes no sense as Intel did solder as recently as 6950x or SB for mainstream processors.

If you have to delid a CPU, in order to cool it, I'd say definitely not worth it since someone obviously short changed you. It's like saying you bought a Titan (GPU) & had to change the cheapo thermal paste because it ran obscenely hot when OCed, I'm sure many people don't like fiddling with their warranties either.

ScrizzI'm not pointing any fingers here just stating what I see.

Would be fine even if you did, facts are facts, gotta come first :)
But seriously, at least specify who's wrong in what, helps keep the conversation relevant (and those interested, to google and inform themselves properly).

Hugh MungusCan we just ignore the overclocks for a second? Intel cpu's would overclock less well if they had been soldered and could have higher baseclocks. Lower heat conductivity-> less heat transfer-> higher resistance-> more power required for same result. Simple.

Why do you insist on the higher base clocks?
Ryzen is soldered, cool and efficient. Yet, it hits the wall very quickly.
In fact AMD has been having issues at high temp for years. There's a comparison of stock coolers at SPCR which showed (among other things) that A10 APU started throttling at 50*C, while i7 was fine up to 75-80*C.

Generally speaking, why are people so afraid of 100*C? Is it because water's boiling point? Don't worry - CPUs are not made of H2O...

R0H1TYour point makes no sense as Intel did solder as recently as 6950x or SB for mainstream processors.

Sure. 2600K for mainstream. as we got better and better, the solder went bye-bye. Now it's time for this to come to the high-end and server markets, now that it's been field tested and proven effective.

And I'll add this: not one person that I have seen is asking for solder on GPUs, which tend to take up the same relative die space at the high-end, and push similar power consumption too compared to 7900X on full OC. Paste works just fine in GPUs, and CPUs are no different, never mind CPUs that are in most instances, going to be pulling less than 150W. This is the most hilarious topic ever, paste vs solder. Solder isn't needed, and is a waste of your hard-earned dollars, as evidenced by billions of GPUs sold over decades, never mind modern CPUs.

That's what I want, CPUs that can take the same abuse GPUs do, bare bloody die. I want 300W 4096 core CPUs, but not everyone can be so forward-thinking.


And yes, I de-lidded GPUs, too. So what. :roll:



:pimp:

cadavecaSure. 2600K for mainstream. as we got better and better, the solder went bye-bye. Now it's time for this to come to the high-end and server markets, now that it's been field tested and proven effective.

And I'll add this: not one person that I have seen is asking for solder on GPUs, which tend to take up the same relative die space at the high-end, and push similar power consumption too compared to 7900X on full OC. Paste works just fine in GPUs, and CPUs are no different, never mind CPUs that are in most instances, going to be pulling less than 150W. This is the most hilarious topic ever, paste vs solder. Solder isn't needed, and is a waste of your hard-earned dollars, as evidenced by billions of GPUs sold over decades, never mind modern CPUs.

That's what I want, CPUs that can take the same abuse GPUs do, bare bloody die. I want 300W 4096 core CPUs, but not everyone can be so forward-thinking.


And yes, I de-lidded GPUs, too. So what. :roll:



:pimp:

People complain if it's bad thermal paste as well, although generally speaking it's good enough nowadays for nobody to care. Also, gpu's don't have lids and the paste is applied directly to the die, cutting out the terrible intel TIM middle man.

notbWhy do you insist on the higher base clocks?
Ryzen is soldered, cool and efficient. Yet, it hits the wall very quickly.
In fact AMD has been having issues at high temp for years. There's a comparison of stock coolers at SPCR which showed (among other things) that A10 APU started throttling at 50*C, while i7 was fine up to 75-80*C.

Generally speaking, why are people so afraid of 100*C? Is it because water's boiling point? Don't worry - CPUs are not made of H2O...

Cpu's aren't made of water, no. However, higher temps mean higher energy bills, lower oc's and a much higher chance of your cpu breaking, or even your mobo because your cpu needs to pull too much power.

AMD fixed their temps, so that's a rubbish point. Only old APU's and cpu's still have high temps, but they're now the extremely low budget options not many will buy except maybe for people just wanting a pc to work. Besides, raven ridge is coming to save the dat on the APU front and mobilr in general will be fixed with ryzen mobile.

AMD also manages to squeeze the most out of their cpu's at their rated tdp's, without extremely high temps. That's only possible because they use solder, not a sh*tty TIM. An 1800x for example doesn't need to be overclocked to get 95%+ out of your cpu because of that and a 1700 will just about work in a laptop paired with a 65w rx580.

I'm just stating the obvious. You can be an intel fanboy on mars if you like, but honestly being a fanboy of intel and not AMD right now just makes you look like you are the sort of person willing to buy an intel cpu made of cheese if it performs better than AMD's, even though it will melt. I don't care that you want to buy intel, but LOVING their new enthousiasts products?! That's just weird.

cadavecaSure. 2600K for mainstream. as we got better and better, the solder went bye-bye. Now it's time for this to come to the high-end and server markets, now that it's been field tested and proven effective.

And I'll add this: not one person that I have seen is asking for solder on GPUs, which tend to take up the same relative die space at the high-end, and push similar power consumption too compared to 7900X on full OC. Paste works just fine in GPUs, and CPUs are no different, never mind CPUs that are in most instances, going to be pulling less than 150W. This is the most hilarious topic ever, paste vs solder. Solder isn't needed, and is a waste of your hard-earned dollars, as evidenced by billions of GPUs sold over decades, never mind modern CPUs.

That's what I want, CPUs that can take the same abuse GPUs do, bare bloody die. I want 300W 4096 core CPUs, but not everyone can be so forward-thinking.


And yes, I de-lidded GPUs, too. So what. :roll:



:pimp:

I'm not asking for solder on a GPU, it was just an analogy to show that a Titan buyer too would be pissed if the GPU maker chose el cheapo TIM instead of a better & viable alternative.

Sure it isn't, heck why do we need a lid, just to delid some of these mini furnaces later on? Because it makes better sense for the CPU maker to not sell them bare die, for all sorts of screw ups the retail buyer could do at his end.
So what does Intel do ~ you want more than 28 lanes shell out a grand, you want solder cough up 4k (xeon) or need ECC get a Xeon.

Their upsell is ridiculous, even by Apple standards. Not sure that's a good thing any which way you look at it.

solder or paste isnt about chips running cooler its about an extra couple of hundred over clocking mhz speed from any given cpu before what seems to be a highly speculative temp ceiling is hit..

the problem now isnt the cooler.. its getting adequate heat transfer from chip to cooler.. as chips get smaller the problem gets greater.. heater spreaders are also load spreaders they enable huge coolers to be attached to tiny chips.. a gpu chip is bigger so the problem isnt there..

but in the end it all only comes down to at most a couple of hundred extra mhz from any given chip before that highly speculative heat ceiling is hit.. a huge fuss about f-ck all..

trog

A lot of people seem to be ragging on this but 10 cores at 4.7 in a monolithic design is epic.

With that sort of IPC and clock speed I don't think Intel have anything to worry about just yet.

I predict their 16 and 18 core models to be able to match thread ripper clocks and therefore be the more powerful chips to buy.

But are they worth double AMD chips?

Not for me so I'll be going AMD for Christmas probably.

But for professionals Intel is probably still the way forward.




Honestly some are you are straight up ignoring the basic facts.

This thing is a 7700 k with 6 more cores, any of you that thought the 7700k was the best cpu ( especially for gaming) then you should be having wet knickers over this CPU.

Sure it's expensive as hell but our pay a premium for performance, all of you are jumping to the conclusion that this doesn't used a solder chip either, based on what? The temperatures at 4.7ghz with 10 cores in a monolithic package? Guys, I hate to brake it to you but that is going to get toasty no matter what, even if they used diamond heat spreaders and crap like that. This is a bigger chip that the i7 chips that don't use solder so in all likelihood this is a soldered part, but it's 10 cores at silly speeds so gets hot.

Run the thing at Ryzen speeds and it will run incredibly cool I recon.

How does the bolded text make any sense?

Let's say you delid your CPU,(voiding warranty) use some sort of liquid metal between the IHS and die and benefit 20 degrees lower temps. Now let's say that if soldered the same chip would now run 20 degrees or so cooler.

Why would you rather buy a CPU with just paste instead of being soldered adding to your own personal cost and voiding warranty for what at the end would be the same result?

cadavecaNo. Just no. Better TIM might have lowered temps a little, but not enough to affect power consumption in such a way as to affect clocking ability. It simply doesn't work that way. What sort of power drop are you expecting from changing paste? higher clocks = higher power use; so how many watts per 100 MHz these CPUs use?


I will gladly take my 7900X and de-lid and prove that. I've got more than one. Heck, I'll do them all just to prove a point. I don't pay for this stuff, so I don't give a flying ... I just need to keep one with its top because I swap boards like every week working on reviews.


I'd be happy if I never saw another CPU with solder. I'd much rather buy a CPU that can work just fine with paste and can run a little bit hot, but is fine, compared to a CPU that requires solder right out of the box. The one with the paste, that can be subjected to those "harsh" conditions, is all that much of a higher quality.


Hey, maybe these CPUs are ones that makes me say de-lid is worth it. I don't see it as worth it with the mainstream Intel CPUs, but if it truly matters with these, I have no problem saying so.

pantherx12A lot of people seem to be ragging on this but 10 cores at 4.7 in a monolithic design is epic.

With that sort of IPC and clock speed I don't think Intel have anything to worry about just yet.

I predict their 16 and 18 core models to be able to match thread ripper clocks and therefore be the more powerful chips to buy.

But are they worth double AMD chips?

Not for me so I'll be going AMD for Christmas probably.

But for professionals Intel is probably still the way forward.




Honestly some are you are straight up ignoring the basic facts.

This thing is a 7700 k with 6 more cores, any of you that thought the 7700k was the best cpu ( especially for gaming) then you should be having wet knickers over this CPU.

Sure it's expensive as hell but our pay a premium for performance, all of you are jumping to the conclusion that this doesn't used a solder chip either, based on what? The temperatures at 4.7ghz with 10 cores in a monolithic package? Guys, I hate to brake it to you but that is going to get toasty no matter what, even if they used diamond heat spreaders and crap like that. This is a bigger chip that the i7 chips that don't use solder so in all likelihood this is a soldered part, but it's 10 cores at silly speeds so gets hot.

Run the thing at Ryzen speeds and it will run incredibly cool I recon.

Intel said they aren't soldered, basically could have made this chips last year or sooner, 4.8ghz is possible, but then you need to put so much voltage through it, even 280mm radiators might not be enough to prevent throttling and with better thermal paste or solder base clocks could've been high enough for there to be no reason to overclock and void your warranty (overclocking in general voids your warranty, so AMD pushing ryzen to near-max from the factory is great and only possible because of the chips being soldered).

3.5-3.6ghz base is the minimum really nowadays 1440p+, which most HEDT buyers will game at and intel only manages 3.3 base. Yes, boost speeds are great,but in heavily multithreaded games it may struggle and you need a pretty good cooler just to prevent throttling from max boost, so mini-itx, an enthousiast favorite, is going to be a problem, unlike with ryzen 7 or probably the lower end threadrippers.

Intel really f-ed over its customers with that terrible thermal paste basically. Could've been 10% faster stock, but no, 1/10th of a cent for decent thermal paste was too much.

Slight disclaimer: it's nigh impossible for intel to tell of you oc-ed, unless they store it's highest clockspeed on-chip or you fry the cpu.