Thursday, July 27th 2017

AMD Says Vega Frontier Edition "Gaming" and "Pro" Modes are Not Placeholders

AMD's Vega Frontier Edition was a release that seemingly left most users either scratching their heads in bewilderment or - more specifically - disappointed. Some of this disappointment seemed to stem from a desire to see the long-awaited RX Vega consumer graphics card performance in the wild - or at least snagging a preview of it. Alas, the Frontier Edition's gaming performance was a disappointment when one considers the expected performance of AMD's underlying hardware - 4096 Stream processors and 16 GB of HBM2 memory - as well as the fact that this is AMD's first high-performance architecture since the Fury line of graphics cards. But to be fair to AMD, they did warn us - the Frontier Edition isn't the right graphics card for gamers.

One of the points of contention for this new release was that AMD delivered a graphics card that straddled the prosumer equation - offering both Pro drivers for professional workloads, and a Gaming Mode which should allow developers to seamlessly jump from development mode to testing mode through a driver toggle. However, when used at launch of the Frontier Edition - and even now - this toggle is little more than a dud. Mostly, what it does is remove the Wattman control panel.
Apparently, there was a lot of misinformation regarding this toggle mode - according to AMD (which has its own blame in the misinformation equation), it's not meant to be a magical, performance-boosting button all in itself. It's really just a way for developers to have access to consumer driver updates (which are launched much more frequently than professional ones) for the latest games. It appears that the Frontier Edition's toggle is there to enable prosumers to have access to two driver packages at the same time - the latest consumer drivers, and the latest, albeit probably older and less flexible - pro drivers. This enables developers to have access to same driver optimizations as general consumers up to the point where the professional drivers are updated with those same optimizations. So while yes, there may be a "magical" increase in gaming performance due to consumer driver package specific improvements, these scenarios will be the exception to the norm. As such, the "Gaming" and "Pro" mode toggle isn't a placeholder, according to AMD. It's just been misunderstood from all the marketing material AMD put out there for the Frontier Edition's launch. Source: Gamers Nexus
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33 Comments on AMD Says Vega Frontier Edition "Gaming" and "Pro" Modes are Not Placeholders

#1
Bytales
Perhaps toggling gaming mode, would load a very early Version of Consumer "RX-Vega" Drivers, at the Moment frontier Edition launched.
Once RX Vega is here, and proper "gaming Drivers are in the wild", These will be the one getting loaded when pressing the button.

Thus frontier Edition Cards would be a professional Card, with ist pro Drivers, and also have the possibility to act like an RX Vega, albeit all with 16 gb ram instead of 8.

It just wasnt possible to see it like this at the time of ist Launch, since the cosumer Drivers are going to be here only after RX Vega lunches.

Someone correct me if im wrong !
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#2
Vayra86
AMD and marketing: failing since 1969
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#3
Noztra
Vayra86, post: 3699832, member: 152404"
AMD and marketing: failing since 1969
So Intel breaking the law since 1984?
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#4
Vayra86
Noztra, post: 3699849, member: 173244"
So Intel breaking the law since 1984?
Spot on! :D
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#5
ZoneDymo
idk, tbh it seems more like people just need to learn 2 read and comprehend better.

Its like all those game trailers that get put out and people getting all hyped up about stuff any veteran gamer will know will not be even close to what the trailer shows in the end.
Thats not being bitter, thats just knowing when something is meant to create hype and sales, when something is just advertisement (albeit it being lies... I mean, stretched truth) and when something is actually realistically feasible in today's world.

But to be more on topic, unless someone made some custom driver, or perhaps if we look at synthetic benchmarks, idk how anyone got the idea that this Frontier Edition would be in any way representative of the gaming card.
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#6
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
Raevenlord, post: 3699817, member: 166527"
It's just been misunderstood from all the marketing material AMD put out there for the Frontier Edition's launch.
Not by me. I've been saying all along that AMD was very clear in its description, that this is not a gaming card and no one should expect it to be.

Some people think devs popping into gameplay mode to play test a portion is the same thing as gaming. It isn't, and I am glad to see AMD finally say so.

I'm beginning to think half of AMD's problems are the lack of capable PR people.
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#7
EarthDog
ZoneDymo, post: 3699916, member: 66089"
idk how anyone got the idea that this Frontier Edition would be in any way representative of the gaming card.
does this article say it used normal dricers for gaming with a switch?

So its simply immature drivers?

Is that still not good...or worse??
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#8
Steevo
Noztra, post: 3699849, member: 173244"
So Intel breaking the law since 1984?
Let's remember that AMD was only given an X86 license as a backup demanded by other manufacturers, then they began reverse engineering Intel chips.
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#9
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
EarthDog, post: 3699921, member: 79836"
does this article say it used normal dricers for gaming with a switch?

So its simply immature drivers?

Is that still not good...or worse??
2 years and it is still an immature driver? Are we looking at the better part of a decade for something useful in games or what here. This card isn't anything more than an updated gcn and it works with the fury driver so what more updating does and need that two years time couldn't fix?

This is substantially worse since it means it was using a gaming driver on a gaming card and failing miserably.
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#10
dozenfury
On another marketing note, why release the RX Vega at SIGGRAPH? That confuses matters even more releasing the gamer version at a non-gamer computer graphics "prosumer" conference. Not to mention Gamescom is only 3 weeks later, which would make 10x more sense for a release of a new gamer card. I could understand launching the Frontier edition Vega at SIGGRAPH and the RX Vega at Gamescom, that would actually make sense.

Personally I don't really care on the timing, for me the sooner the better. But as a consumer whoever at AMD marketing planned that release schedule is really dropping the ball and causing unnecessary confusion.
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#11
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
dozenfury, post: 3699971, member: 164657"
Personally I don't really care on the timing, for me the sooner the better. But as a consumer whoever at AMD marketing planned that release schedule is really dropping the ball and causing unnecessary confusion.
It's definitely their weakest department.
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#12
Jism
This out of context was generally created by websites and their userbase.
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#13
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
Jism, post: 3700014, member: 91255"
This out of context was generally created by websites and their userbase.
True. But no one until now at AMD, managed to respond to all that. They let all the suppositions run unchecked for months.
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#14
Vayra86
Jism, post: 3700014, member: 91255"
This out of context was generally created by websites and their userbase.
When your marketing first creates doubt, is then supported by Firestrike 'leaks' and driver improvements for Ashes, show Vega publicly running GAMES, and on top of that you then never publicly set things straight AND postpone the launch unto infinity, what can one except to happen? Its like AMD hasnt figured out how social media and half educated press works. Still...
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#15
DeathtoGnomes
Bytales, post: 3699820, member: 89173"
Perhaps toggling gaming mode, would load a very early Version of Consumer "RX-Vega" Drivers, at the Moment frontier Edition launched.
Once RX Vega is here, and proper "gaming Drivers are in the wild", These will be the one getting loaded when pressing the button.

Thus frontier Edition Cards would be a professional Card, with ist pro Drivers, and also have the possibility to act like an RX Vega, albeit all with 16 gb ram instead of 8.

It just wasnt possible to see it like this at the time of ist Launch, since the cosumer Drivers are going to be here only after RX Vega lunches.

Someone correct me if im wrong !
It was stated long ago by AMD that vega FE was not a consumer card. The false narrative was concocted because the card showed up in a public database and people tried to become famous exposing results from what appeared to be an unknown source.

The real problem started when people with limited reading skillz and comprehension decide to thrust noob hands and tried to speculate which only fueled intel fanbois to counter-speculate(tm :p ) and all the fake news spread like wildfire.

My own speculation is that the the AMD PR knot-heads let all this happen by being vague so that when the time came to launch vega FE, coupled with the decision to not send out samples, resulted in profit for AMD because of the "must have" line of thought that those with money stored in the mattress would buy it immediately. only to be let down that the card didnt perform on the consumer level as it was falsely hyped up to be.

So lets not talk about what was disabled on the card because of the intent that it was meant more for professionals than consumers from the beginning.

:lovetpu:
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#16
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
DeathtoGnomes, post: 3700107, member: 151150"
So lets not talk about what was disabled on the card because of the intent that it was meant more for professionals than consumers from the beginning.
Nothing would be disabled on a prosumer card. More would be enabled.
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#17
Jism
rtwjunkie, post: 3700056, member: 56774"
True. But no one until now at AMD, managed to respond to all that. They let all the suppositions run unchecked for months.
So you think staff or personel of AMD should watch forums all day to see what people write?

I think that a fair question arrised from some sort of event which they answered. they sold Vega PRO as a card that would do both professional and gaming mode for devs or whatever to get the best out of both.

I never seen professional cards anyway being benched for games in reviews. Not even nvidia products where done that way. And it's useless anyway to bench a professional card for games. It's like benching a bugatti engine for best fuel economy in daily traffic.
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#18
T4C Fantasy
CPU & GPU DB Maintainer
i dont think anyone realizes that everyone testing Vega FE ignored the fact that all the drivers are built for HBM2 to be used as a write through cache and not as a frame buffer.

problem solved.
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#19
DeathtoGnomes
T4C Fantasy, post: 3700133, member: 105373"
i dont think anyone realizes that everyone testing Vega FE ignored the fact that all the drivers are built for HBM2 to be used as a write through cache and not as a frame buffer.

problem solved.
ok, I'll bite. whats the difference?


cdawall, post: 3700119, member: 28601"
Nothing would be disabled on a prosumer card. More would be enabled.
Sorry forgot the source, someone said the shaders or shader related were.
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#20
EarthDog
T4C Fantasy, post: 3700133, member: 105373"
i dont think anyone realizes that everyone testing Vega FE ignored the fact that all the drivers are built for HBM2 to be used as a write through cache and not as a frame buffer.

problem solved.
Even the "gaming" drivers they switched to (what this thread is about) for testing? That doesn't make sense to me...
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#21
T4C Fantasy
CPU & GPU DB Maintainer
EarthDog, post: 3700139, member: 79836"
Even the "gaming" drivers they switched to (what this thread is about) for testing? That doesn't make sense to me...
Even them
Probably why rx vega is taking so long, hbm2 enhanced gaming drivers
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#22
EarthDog
The entire AMD army and those that like competition, pray you are correct...

...I'm not holding my breath, however.
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#23
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
Jism, post: 3700130, member: 91255"
So you think staff or personel of AMD should watch forums all day to see what people write?
So, (scratches head), you are getting combative when I made a statement which supported yours? Do I have this straight?

What I think is a) if you are a multimillion dollar company which manufactures products, you have to have intelligent, skilled people anticipating reactions to what you do or say. b) you pay attention to major trending stories about you by reviewers. c) you actually put out statements and marketing that is not ambiguous.

Those types of people are paid to anticipate, and to gauge reaction. They did not follow through. So, in a general way, my response to you, is if you are a professionally run corporation is yes, you are watching what reaction is to what you say or do or release.

EDIT: Oh, and d), when shit starts going south or sideways, you have your skilled talking heads go and address the situation and correct things and false perceptions.
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#24
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
DeathtoGnomes, post: 3700135, member: 151150"
Sorry forgot the source, someone said the shaders or shader related were.
Unless they are hiding some shaders in their butts all of those are enabled. There is no functioning TBR, but that sounds like a larger issue than a driver.

T4C Fantasy, post: 3700141, member: 105373"
Even them
Probably why rx vega is taking so long, hbm2 enhanced gaming drivers
Two words

NO STOCK
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#25
T4C Fantasy
CPU & GPU DB Maintainer
cdawall, post: 3700149, member: 28601"
Unless they are hiding some shaders in their butts all of those are enabled. There is no functioning TBR, but that sounds like a larger issue than a driver.



Two words

NO STOCK
They wont stock something not ready
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