Saturday, October 7th 2017

German Company to Sell Binned Core i7 8700K With 99.9% Silver Heatspreader

For those users who thought they'd like some silver with their Intel, german webshop Caseking has a product for you. The company has taken the binning concept that we've already seen with other webshops, which pass the onus of the silicon lottery towards themselves, and taken it to the next level. Caseking will offer Core i7 8700K products that have not only been binned towards achieving guaranteed speeds of 5 GHz, 5.1 GHz and 5.2 GHz, but they're also retrofitting these binned 8700K processors with a 99.9% purity silver heatspreader to improve operating temperatures for these guaranteed-overclocking processors.
Caseking is basically testing batches of i7 8700K processors, delidding them, and then applying Thermal Grizzly's Conductonaut liquid metal thermal grease and the aforementioned silver heatspreader to improve operating temperatures as much as they can be. The company is doing this in partnership with overclocking poster child der8auer, and brands the silver IHS with both Caseking's and Der8auer's logo. The silver heatspreader versions of the Core i7 8700K are being sold as the Ultra Edition, and Caseking are asking a hefty premium for their binned CPUs: €690 will get you an 8700K that is guaranteed to clock up to 5.0 GHz, €750 will guarantee 5.1 GHz, and the premium of premiums (for now, we'd imagine) 5.2 GHz overclockable processor will cost €870.
These are some hefty, hefty price premiums to be sure; however, the company really is taking many risks out of their prospective buyer's hands, in that they not only won't have to bet on the silicon lottery to get some good results, but also won't have to run the risk of delidding their six-core Intel CPU. There's also an Advanced Edition (stock heatspreader with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut) and a Pro Edition (Niquel-plated heatspreader with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut) available, for lower prices than the silver options.Sources: Caseking, via Guru 3D
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109 Comments on German Company to Sell Binned Core i7 8700K With 99.9% Silver Heatspreader

#1
claes
jihadjoe said:
That doesn't mean you can't bin them again. Intel/AMD will do coarse binning and find chips that do 4.7GHz/4.1GHz to sell as 8700k/1800x, but companies like caseking and siliconlottery will sift through those again to find the ones that do 5.0/4.2.
lexluthermiester said:
Absolutely correct. And there's nothing wrong with this as it takes the guess work out of the equation for the consumers.
Of course, I was just hoping to clarify that every processor is binned, as some users don't seem to be aware of this...
Posted on Reply
#2
der8auer
Gonna try to reply to as much as possible


theoneandonlymrk said:
Point is, if someone at a shop is picking out the best ones , and therein testing the one i might buy to make sure i got a shit one and that they definitely get more for the silicon gold ,then im not buying that product off them ,and due to this practice I would buy a packaged box with a bit of mystery and luck involved in the purchase, and less money.

And from what pile do they fill their oem pcs without der8haur branding?.
We have B2B Partners that get used B-Stock at a reduced price. No used items would be sold again to end customers. That would simply be fraud and against the law in Germany.


R-T-B said:
Don't take everything you read here seriously man. We're sort of a free for all in the comments section... well almost anyways. :)


I'm the newsposter who covered your VRM issue BTW, no longer work here atm but did cover it. It is decidedly not "debunked" despite how people may like to spin it. What would be more correct to say is it may not matter to the casual user, but that is NOT debunking it.

Despite our free for all nature, we regulars here at TPU appreciate a man who can argue his point too. And I agree with you there that the heatsinks were an issue, and the proof is in the replacements, so to speak.

Likewise, I hope you won't take my criticism of your product with silver as being an awful heatsink material as anything other than that: Constructive criticism. It's not like silver is the only option you offer anyways.

Thanks for stopping in. :)
Not taking it too serious :) Sometimes people are still over the top. It's usually even worse on YouTube tho lol.

I agree that some parts of the VRM Disaster video were a bit over the top and/or not explained well enough. The 2nd video with all the clarification should have been included in the first video already. I think that would've prevented a lot.
Fact is that we have/had quite a lot of problems in the past at Caseking with insufficient VRM cooling in our systems. Especially when you have cases with not so good air flow and using AIOs. Forwarded that multiple times to the different vendors and things just got worse and worse.
I'm glad that it's going in the right direction now tho.


[XC] Oj101 said:
I really don't see why you need to defend yourself here. You found a niche in the market, so why the hell not.
Thanks man :) Appreciate that.


theoneandonlymrk said:
I would be interested in hearing his explanation of what happens to bin these chips and just as importantly where the sub grade chips end up.

Playing fair after a think they could be grading their process rather than the chips.

For example and explanation , they may not necessarily bin the best chips out of a thousand (this is hypothetical remember that), instead relying on their process (delid tim and Hs) to garauntee it will hit (their )spec , leaving no bad(persay) chips to sell n channel.

It would be nice to know how they are doing this.

I am fine with doing this and its premium from a consumer point of view, i would not buy one but i get why some would, but it's the question of how they bin that concerns me enough that id only buy packaged processors off caseking if i was buying, which to be fair im not.
See the reply to the first quote



EarthDog said:
+1


Considering the difference between coppe and silver as far as heat passing through it isn't much... you wonder if the expense is actually justified.
It's a premium product. Ofc the difference is only few °C but we also offer 5.2 GHz with stock IHS so it's just for people who want the best of the best no matter of the costs.



rtwjunkie said:
If I understand @der8auer and the OP correctly, they test the chips First, and determine what they will reach comfortably.


THEN, they delid and repaste only those which meet the criteria. The others don't get delidded, since it is for the sake of cooling he is doing it after.

Regardless, they can't be new CPU anymore, but I'm sure he would not sell them as such.
That's not correct. We order CPUs for binning/System Integration and they are treated completely different from the normal B2C business. All of the CPUs for binning get laser engraved first depending on the SKUs we are working on. So for example a CK Crown for delidded CPUs but not pretested. Pretested CPUs would get a "der8auer Advanced Pretested" logo.
Then we take the CPUs and delid them all at once and replace TIM with Liquid Metal. Simply because there is often a production variation from Intel and we have to make sure we don't miss and good CPUs. The behavior of delidded CPUs is also different from stock CPUs. Delidding often helps to lower the vCore by another 40-50 mV. Also it helps to make sure we don't run into any temperature limit. A CPU running with stock tim at 5.2 GHz would always hit 90°C+ and would hardly be stable in these conditions. Temperature helps a lot in terms of stability.

So as the CPUs are already engraved and delidded it's absolutely obvious that they can't go back to the normal B2C market. That's why we have B2B partners that get the "trash" at a reduced price and the loss of this is obviously calculated in the price of the pretested chips.

Hope this clarified things a bit :)
Posted on Reply
#3
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
der8auer said:
Gonna try to reply to as much as possible




We have B2B Partners that get used B-Stock at a reduced price. No used items would be sold again to end customers. That would simply be fraud and against the law in Germany.




Not taking it too serious :) Sometimes people are still over the top. It's usually even worse on YouTube tho lol.

I agree that some parts of the VRM Disaster video were a bit over the top and/or not explained well enough. The 2nd video with all the clarification should have been included in the first video already. I think that would've prevented a lot.
Fact is that we have/had quite a lot of problems in the past at Caseking with insufficient VRM cooling in our systems. Especially when you have cases with not so good air flow and using AIOs. Forwarded that multiple times to the different vendors and things just got worse and worse.
I'm glad that it's going in the right direction now tho.




Thanks man :) Appreciate that.




See the reply to the first quote





It's a premium product. Ofc the difference is only few °C but we also offer 5.2 GHz with stock IHS so it's just for people who want the best of the best no matter of the costs.





That's not correct. We order CPUs for binning/System Integration and they are treated completely different from the normal B2C business. All of the CPUs for binning get laser engraved first depending on the SKUs we are working on. So for example a CK Crown for delidded CPUs but not pretested. Pretested CPUs would get a "der8auer Advanced Pretested" logo.
Then we take the CPUs and delid them all at once and replace TIM with Liquid Metal. Simply because there is often a production variation from Intel and we have to make sure we don't miss and good CPUs. The behavior of delidded CPUs is also different from stock CPUs. Delidding often helps to lower the vCore by another 40-50 mV. Also it helps to make sure we don't run into any temperature limit. A CPU running with stock tim at 5.2 GHz would always hit 90°C+ and would hardly be stable in these conditions. Temperature helps a lot in terms of stability.

So as the CPUs are already engraved and delidded it's absolutely obvious that they can't go back to the normal B2C market. That's why we have B2B partners that get the "trash" at a reduced price and the loss of this is obviously calculated in the price of the pretested chips.

Hope this clarified things a bit :)
Yes, it clarifies a lot, and is much different than was reported. Thanks for the time to make it clearer! :)
Posted on Reply
#4
theoneandonlymrk
rtwjunkie said:
Yes, it clarifies a lot, and is much different than was reported. Thanks for the time to make it clearer! :)
I'll second that.
Posted on Reply
#5
Gasaraki
RejZoR said:
I remember I've paid tiny premium for a D0 stepping of Core i7 920 back in the day. It was like 20€ premium, but it was worth it imo.

Main question her is, why doesn't Intel use top of the line thermal compound and charge I don't know, 15€ more? Surely such tiny premium would still give them massive profit margin on each CPU (where they use cheap generic crap and charge nothing extra for it) while giving users better thermals than with crappy generic paste.

I mean, people don't realize that what Intel is doing is essentially causing you to effectively use 2 layers of thermal compound. The more of this crap you stack, the worse things are. Back in the day of 25W and 60W top end CPU's it didn't even matter. But now with 6+ cores and really high clocks, every little matters. Not to mention heatspreaders came later, in the beginning all CPU's were "delided" from factory. They all had direct contact with the cooler.
Ok, currently the 8700K can be overclocked to 5.0 (ON AIR). Temps are around 75 degrees. So if they spend more money and charge you $15 more for the CPU, the temp drops to about 65 degrees. What does that get you? You still can't really overclock to 5.1 ON AIR even with the better thermal interface. You'll need a binned cpu and more voltage.

They are not going to charge everyone $15 more just so some people can get a better overclock.
Posted on Reply
#6
lexluthermiester
der8auer said:
Gonna try to reply to as much as possible... Hope this clarified things a bit :)
As suggested in previous posts, 99.9 Silver will oxidize/tarnish over time. What is your solution to Silver's tendency to oxidize? Are you applying another surface compound to prevent such a problem? And how will it prevent oxidation due to oxygen permeation?
Posted on Reply
#7
R0H1T
der8auer said:
Gonna try to reply to as much as possible




We have B2B Partners that get used B-Stock at a reduced price. No used items would be sold again to end customers. That would simply be fraud and against the law in Germany.




Not taking it too serious :) Sometimes people are still over the top. It's usually even worse on YouTube tho lol.

I agree that some parts of the VRM Disaster video were a bit over the top and/or not explained well enough. The 2nd video with all the clarification should have been included in the first video already. I think that would've prevented a lot.
Fact is that we have/had quite a lot of problems in the past at Caseking with insufficient VRM cooling in our systems. Especially when you have cases with not so good air flow and using AIOs. Forwarded that multiple times to the different vendors and things just got worse and worse.
I'm glad that it's going in the right direction now tho.




Thanks man :) Appreciate that.




See the reply to the first quote





It's a premium product. Ofc the difference is only few °C but we also offer 5.2 GHz with stock IHS so it's just for people who want the best of the best no matter of the costs.





That's not correct. We order CPUs for binning/System Integration and they are treated completely different from the normal B2C business. All of the CPUs for binning get laser engraved first depending on the SKUs we are working on. So for example a CK Crown for delidded CPUs but not pretested. Pretested CPUs would get a "der8auer Advanced Pretested" logo.
Then we take the CPUs and delid them all at once and replace TIM with Liquid Metal. Simply because there is often a production variation from Intel and we have to make sure we don't miss and good CPUs. The behavior of delidded CPUs is also different from stock CPUs. Delidding often helps to lower the vCore by another 40-50 mV. Also it helps to make sure we don't run into any temperature limit. A CPU running with stock tim at 5.2 GHz would always hit 90°C+ and would hardly be stable in these conditions. Temperature helps a lot in terms of stability.

So as the CPUs are already engraved and delidded it's absolutely obvious that they can't go back to the normal B2C market. That's why we have B2B partners that get the "trash" at a reduced price and the loss of this is obviously calculated in the price of the pretested chips.

Hope this clarified things a bit :)
Can we get a "know your der8auer better" AMA session on TPU? Also do you ship to Asia :)
Posted on Reply
#8
Dr_b_
Tsukiyomi91 said:
why "derbauer".... after his publicity stunt on the Core i9 + high VRM temps that got debunked, I doubt ppl will spend 700 Euros for a binned chip with his name on it... Rather let RNGezus decide my silicon luck.
It wasn't debunked, it is a real issue when OCing due to power consumption and poor heatsink design on certain motherboards
Posted on Reply
#9
Dr_b_
P4-630 said:
Where are the ones with golden heatspreaders? :p:D
I may have to wait a liitle longer then....:ohwell:
Silver is a better thermal conductor than gold, but if you just want bling, just gold plate your existing one and dont pay a premium for a binned/delid
Posted on Reply