Monday, October 16th 2017

HP ENVY x360 15-bq101na Could be First "Raven Ridge" Implementation

HP posted the datasheet of its upcoming 2-in-1 notebook PC, the ENVY x360 15-bq101na, which could be the world's first implementation of AMD's upcoming 14 nm "Raven Ridge" APU. The silicon combines a quad-core "Zen" CPU with an integrated graphics core based on the "Vega" GPU architecture. The datasheet speaks of an "AMD Ryzen 5 2500U" processor powering the machine.

The Ryzen 5 2500U is being described as featuring a quad-core CPU clocked at 2.00 GHz with 3.60 GHz boost frequency, and 6 MB of cache. This could very well be total-cache, since that's how AMD likes OEMs to advertise cache on its chips, which works out to 512 KB of L2 cache per core, and 4 MB of shared L3 cache. The graphics core features the branding "AMD Radeon Vega M," confirming that this chip is indeed a derivation of "Raven Ridge."
Other specifications of this Zen-Vega powered 2-in-1 aren't too shabby either. The 15.6-inch thin-edge IPS display features Full HD (1920 x 1080) resolution, the Ryzen 5 2500U chip is paired with 8 GB of single-channel DDR4-2400 SO-DIMM memory; and 256 GB M.2 PCIe (NVMe) storage. The 55.8 Wh battery keeps the machine ticking for a little over 10 hours. Connectivity includes 802.11ac + Bluetooth 4.2, two USB 3.0 ports (from which one is type-C), HDMI 2.0 display output, and stereo audio.Sources: HP, VideoCardz
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36 Comments on HP ENVY x360 15-bq101na Could be First "Raven Ridge" Implementation

#1
ShurikN
Single channel memory... again.
AMD apus getting screwed over... again.
Posted on Reply
#2
NC37
ShurikN said:
Single channel memory... again.
AMD apus getting screwed over... again.
It's HP, what do you expect?
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#3
RejZoR
But I think the APU supports dual channel, it's just that HP sticks 1 stick of memory in it because it's convenient. But screws the performance.
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#5
Basard
There's not a stack of HBM on this thing is there?
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#6
Readlight
The only one thing whats missing is lenovo keyboard.
Posted on Reply
#7
TheinsanegamerN
RejZoR said:
But I think the APU supports dual channel, it's just that HP sticks 1 stick of memory in it because it's convenient. But screws the performance.
HP has made laptops in the past with dual memory slots, with APUs that support dual channel memory, but only allow for single channel configuration.

Once again, AMD showing why they need to get more involved with the development of products using their APUs. I cant imagine intel allowing this to fly with their chips, heck almost every ultrabook has dual channel memory.

AMD should be teaming up with the likes of clevo or MSI to make a reference machine that is actually built properly, then put it on sale to force OEMs to care about what they build.
Posted on Reply
#8
jabbadap
Durvelle27 said:
Price

I need one of these
Well current envy line starts from $700. I don't think this will be any cheaper than that.
Posted on Reply
#9
Konceptz
ShurikN said:
Single channel memory... again.
AMD apus getting screwed over... again.
NC37 said:
It's HP, what do you expect?
Dell is famous for this as well. Despite what majority thinks, there is a noticeable difference to this day moving from single to dual channel memory.
Posted on Reply
#10
ShurikN
The power adapter will be 45W so I'm guessing a 25-30W chip inside?
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#11
silentbogo
Durvelle27 said:
Price

I need one of these
Should be similar to the current-gen A10 models, if not more expensive. I'd say, prepare to cash out no less than $800-900, given that it's an ultrabook w/ aluminium chassis and a multi-touch display.

ShurikN said:
Single channel memory... again.
AMD apus getting screwed over... again.
Well, we've only seen that a standard configuration comes with a single 8GB stick of DDR4, and not a word about it being limited to single-channel operation.
In simple words: it either has one stick, or 8GB soldered onboard, and most likely has the second unoccupied stick for RAM expansion.

In regards to APUs screwed over again, it's also a speculation. Previous HP envy models with 8000 and 9000-series AMD mobile APUs were indeed capped at 15W TDP, but I'm sure Raven Ridge won't need such drastic measures to keep it cool and stable. So far there was talk about 35W and ~20W models (equivalent of Core M and low-power Core U). With 20-25W R5 APU you still get quite a headroom to stay within 45W limit for the entire platform (new HP Envy comes with 45W power brick), and enough space to cool that puppy.

My only concern is that Raven Ridge may be too late. Even if it hits the shelves by Q1 2018, it will go on the market filled with 3 generations of Intel-powered laptops(since last launch) and a bad taste from the previous 2 generations of "high-performance" mobile APUs crippled by HP's bad design and terrible engineering decisions.
Posted on Reply
#12
Durvelle27
silentbogo said:
Should be similar to the current-gen A10 models, if not more expensive. I'd say, prepare to cash out no less than $800-900, given that it's an ultrabook w/ aluminium chassis and a multi-touch display.


Well, we've only seen that a standard configuration comes with a single 8GB stick of DDR4, and not a word about it being limited to single-channel operation.
In simple words: it either has one stick, or 8GB soldered onboard, and most likely has the second unoccupied stick for RAM expansion.

In regards to APUs screwed over again, it's also a speculation. Previous HP envy models with 8000 and 9000-series AMD mobile APUs were indeed capped at 15W TDP, but I'm sure Raven Ridge won't need such drastic measures to keep it cool and stable. So far there was talk about 35W and ~20W models (equivalent of Core M and low-power Core U). With 20-25W R5 APU you still get quite a headroom to stay within 45W limit for the entire platform (new HP Envy comes with 45W power brick), and enough space to cool that puppy.

My only concern is that Raven Ridge may be too late. Even if it hits the shelves by Q1 2018, it will go on the market filled with 3 generations of Intel-powered laptops(since last launch) and a bad taste from the previous 2 generations of "high-performance" mobile APUs crippled by HP's bad design and terrible engineering decisions.
I wouldn't say late as these APUs has a place in the market considering it has a much better IGP than intels offerings for similar to lower price point
Posted on Reply
#13
silentbogo
Durvelle27 said:
I wouldn't say late as these APUs has a place in the market considering it has a much better IGP than intels offerings for similar to lower price point
Your statement was true for the past 5-6 years, yet AMD APUs still did not sell well and had an angry user-base for reasons other than exceptional GPU performance.
Posted on Reply
#14
Durvelle27
silentbogo said:
Your statement was true for the past 5-6 years, yet AMD APUs still did not sell well and had an angry user-base for reasons other than exceptional GPU performance.
only because it's AMD

when it comes to average consumers most don't know who AMD is and tend to automatically go with intel offerings.

And people who do grab them often complain about issues not relevant to the actual hardware
Posted on Reply
#15
RejZoR
I think most were really angry for other reasons. I find my ancient AMD E-450 APU very much acceptable and i think I couldn't ever get this much mileage from any other CPU from Intel. The thing is, it's lacking software support which makes it a poor HW for quite a while now. The chip is still very much capable, but since no one gives a fuck about it (literally and I won't censor this), it performs 10x worse than it would otherwise. Namely, GPU being blacklisted in ALL browsers for no logical reason, forcing all taxing tasks to run on CPU instead of GPU which even mid and high end desktops are barely strong enough, making it slow and unusable. And this probably isn't the only thing setting AMD APU's back and pissing off people. But once you bypass the dumb GPU blacklists, the thing flies and decodes 1080p60 videos easily, renders webpages fine and even runs basic games. Not too shabby for a 6 years old APU.

Which is why I'm holding back from investing into Intel's Celeron and holding off for AMD's Basilisk APU with Ryzen and Vega/Polaris based compute units. If I get another 5-6 years out of it, totally worth it.
Posted on Reply
#16
TheinsanegamerN
silentbogo said:
Your statement was true for the past 5-6 years, yet AMD APUs still did not sell well and had an angry user-base for reasons other than exceptional GPU performance.
Arguable. Sure, the GPUs benched well, but you couldnt use them, because the CPU was so anemic and the memory controller was asleep at the wheel.

The A8-4500m was faster GPU wise then ivy bridge's HD 4000., and the 4600m smoked it in GPU benches. Yet, in real world games, the ivy bridge chip was as fast, if not sometimes faster, then the 4600m, because the rest of the chip constrained the GPU so badly. (and I would know, I owned both of them)

AMD plugged their ears and went "LALALA" for so long that they pissed off all their buyers, who went with intel products, and nobody bothered with kaveri or carrizo.


ShurikN said:
The power adapter will be 45W so I'm guessing a 25-30W chip inside?
Heck no, 15 watt at most. 28 and 37 watt TDP chips from any reputable laptop OEM always come with at least 65 watt adapters, 90 watt adapters are the norm for 80+ WH battery models. You have to power the rest of the laptop, count inefficiency from heat and other components, drive USB devices, charge the battery, ece.

Mobile is going towards either 45 watt chips like the i7s, or 15 watt mobile chips. These raven ridges are 15 watt, guaranteed.
Posted on Reply
#17
R0H1T
TheinsanegamerN said:

Heck no, 15 watt at most. 28 and 37 watt TDP chips from any reputable laptop OEM always come with at least 65 watt adapters, 90 watt adapters are the norm for 80+ WH battery models. You have to power the rest of the laptop, count inefficiency from heat and other components, drive USB devices, charge the battery, ece.

Mobile is going towards either 45 watt chips like the i7s, or 15 watt mobile chips. These raven ridges are 15 watt, guaranteed.
Looking at the battery life it's unlikely that the TDP would be higher than 15~18W, though it could have a cTDP option of up to 20~25W. Unlikely, that but not impossible considering all the other elements in there.
Posted on Reply
#18
silentbogo
Durvelle27 said:
only because it's AMD

when it comes to average consumers most don't know who AMD is and tend to automatically go with intel offerings.

And people who do grab them often complain about issues not relevant to the actual hardware
Bollocks. Once again, "AMD underdog" image does not work anymore and never did. The quality of their offerings and lack of grip or basic oversight over OEMs is what made AMD-based laptops bad.

TheinsanegamerN said:
Arguable. Sure, the GPUs benched well, but you couldnt use them, because the CPU was so anemic and the memory controller was asleep at the wheel.

The A8-4500m was faster GPU wise then ivy bridge's HD 4000., and the 4600m smoked it in GPU benches. Yet, in real world games, the ivy bridge chip was as fast, if not sometimes faster, then the 4600m, because the rest of the chip constrained the GPU so badly. (and I would know, I owned both of them)

AMD plugged their ears and went "LALALA" for so long that they pissed off all their buyers, who went with intel products, and nobody bothered with kaveri or carrizo.
It was not that bad. I had quite a few Envy 15 and Envy M6 laptops w/ AMD Trinity APUs and they were not bad at all. I beat the Whistleblower DLC for Outlast, Portal 2 and Trine on an M6 with A10-4600M onboard. Not the best performance comparing to discrete graphics, but at least it was on par with GT630M, which I had before.
The main problem with that platform was reliability. All those Envies I mentioned earlier went through my workshop (at least 10 this year alone). Problems ranged from failing SoC (artifacts/BSoDs etc) which required CPU replacements, to disappearing SATA devices, failing chipsets, partial socket detachments due to motherboard flexing too much, mysterious overheating, RAM problems etc. etc. etc. Even worse for Kabini.
I rarely see Intel laptops from that generation. Had a few Sandy Bridge laptops from Dell, Lenovo and ASUS, but the issue is usually related to power circuitry. Only had one Lenovo B590 with dead PCH so far, but it was previously mutilated and tortured by another "professional repairman", so I'm not sure PCH failed on its own. Haswell and newer laptops are much worse in terms of reliability. Seen many of them fail even before warranty expired. Right now I have a pair of Thinkpads T540p on my desk - both dead with no hope for cheap and easy revival.
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#19
Vayra86
Where is AMD in all this? Do we really have to figure this out through some 'discovery'?

Again, its a sign nothing's changed and AMD will keep falling into the same holes over and over. MARKETING GUYS. LEARN IT

AMD has every chance to steal the limelight from Coffee Lake with their first spanking new APUs and here we are, reading some stupid leak/find (and speculating on the price and performance @ 1 stick of RAM, effectively dismissing the product).
Posted on Reply
#20
Valantar
silentbogo said:

Well, we've only seen that a standard configuration comes with a single 8GB stick of DDR4, and not a word about it being limited to single-channel operation.
In simple words: it either has one stick, or 8GB soldered onboard, and most likely has the second unoccupied stick for RAM expansion.
This is a thin-and-"light" 15.6" 2-in1. It is very, very, very unlikely that the RAM isn't soldered. And if it is, all configurations, regardless of memory capacity, would have either single or dual channel RAM - they wouldn't leave channels unpopulated. As such, it's very very likely that this is neutered from the start. Too bad, really.
Posted on Reply
#21
silentbogo
Valantar said:
This is a thin-and-"light" 15.6" 2-in1. It is very, very, very unlikely that the RAM isn't soldered.
I guess you are right. Just looked at spec and it's 14mm thick, so most likely there will be no paired butterfly slots, like on last-gen Envy 15 (18mm thick).
Posted on Reply
#22
Valantar
silentbogo said:
I guess you are right. Just looked at spec and it's 14mm thick, so most likely there will be no paired butterfly slots, like on last-gen Envy 15 (18mm thick).
I'm rather impressed that it had that even at 18mm. But they likely won't fit at all in 14mm, and they wouldn't want to spend the PCB/chassis area for side-by-side slots.

This brings me back to a thought I had before: there should really be a standard for dual-channel soDIMMs. It might bring some upgradeability into the SFF market.
Posted on Reply
#23
StrayKAT
Durvelle27 said:
only because it's AMD

when it comes to average consumers most don't know who AMD is and tend to automatically go with intel offerings.

And people who do grab them often complain about issues not relevant to the actual hardware
My mom doesn't know anything about either. She's just an old lady who buys cheap laptops :p
Posted on Reply
#24
Da_SyEnTisT
TheinsanegamerN said:
H I cant imagine intel allowing this to fly with their chips, heck almost every ultrabook has dual channel memory.
Sorry but thats not true at all.

a LOT of Intel ultrabooks on the market come with only 1 stick of ram, and even worse, there are no other sodimm slot, so you cannot even run in dual channel even if you want to.

My workplace bought some ThinkPad x270 notebook, and it's a single slot motherboard ... I was not very happy to find that out.

Also found out a lot of Asus and HP ultrabook are single slotted or even worse, some model have the ram soldered on-board in a single channel config.

Unfortunately, dual channel option is starting to dissapear in ultrabooks
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#25
JackOne
It's funny that some people think this is possibly late to the market, despite Ryzen being the efficiency king right now. Ryzen is basically made for highest efficiency, the Core architecture looks quite outdated compared to it. So it is impossible to be late with such a great product.
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