Tuesday, December 5th 2017

AMD Officially but Silently Downgrades Radeon RX 560 with an 896 SP Variant

The phenomenon of Radeon RX 560 graphics cards with 896 stream processors is more widespread than earlier thought. It looks like RX 560 cards with 896 stream processors will be more widely available than the previously thought Greater China region; with AMD silently editing the specifications of the SKU to have either 896 or 1,024 stream processors, as opposed to the 1,024 it originally launched with. There are no clear labeling guidelines or SKU names to distinguish cards with 896 stream processors from those with 1,024.

The Radeon RX 560 and the previous-generation RX 460 are based on the 14 nm "Polaris 11" silicon, which physically features 16 GCN compute units (CUs), each packed with 64 stream processors. The RX 560 originally maxed this silicon out, with all 16 CUs being enabled, while the RX 460 has two CUs locked. The decision to change specs of the RX 560 effectively makes it a re-brand of the RX 460, which is slower, and provides fertile grounds for bait-and-switch lawsuits.

Source: Heise.de
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129 Comments on AMD Officially but Silently Downgrades Radeon RX 560 with an 896 SP Variant

#2
EarthDog
That is what I am questioning as it doesn't make sense, the TPU database, compared to the links I provided and what you stated as there are exceptions to your methods in the list and in the publications I listed.

I will look at it in the AM again... pretty tired so perhaps something isn't landing.

Please see added edits to previous post. ;)

COOL: The HIS says it.. now what about the MSI which doesn't display that info? Wait, let me guess.. its 1196 so it has to be a D...
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#3
Apocalypsee
I bought Powercolor RX 560 few days ago, there is no mentioning of number of stream processor on their global site. There is 4 version with varying clockspeed, memory size and boost clock.

Mine comes with 896sp with 1180MHz boost clock, but managed to flash to 1024sp vBIOS without problem thanks to TPU vBIOS database, its unverified but it works. Same boost clock only different sp count. You can see the benchmark on 'Your PC ATM' thread.
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#4
9700 Pro
It should be named as RX 560 SE or something like that.
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#5
bug
9700 Pro said:
It should be named as RX 560 SE or something like that.
RX 559 :P

Nvidia as least uses Ti (most of the time) for these variations, but I'm not aware of something similar from AMD.
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#6
Apocalypsee
9700 Pro said:
It should be named as RX 560 SE or something like that.
bug said:
RX 559 :p

Nvidia as least uses Ti (most of the time) for these variations, but I'm not aware of something similar from AMD.
In China the 896sp variant uses RX 560D prefix for example Yeston RX560D, but not everywhere else. ASUS uses EVO on their 896sp variant, but some companies Powercolor there is no indication but to look at their SKU, like my card AXRX560-DHA is 896sp while DHV2-OC is 1024sp. Interestingly my vBIOS was marked with named Polaris21 XL while the 1024sp version is Polaris21 XT
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#7
9700 Pro
bug said:
RX 559 :p

Nvidia as least uses Ti (most of the time) for these variations, but I'm not aware of something similar from AMD.
Remember 9800 SE etc. from the old times for those cut-down versions. ;)
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#8
bug
9700 Pro said:
Remember 9800 SE etc. from the old times for those cut-down versions. ;)
I was just saying, Nvidia seems to be a bit more consistent in this regard. Though they did mess it up with 1060 and going even further back I think they also had stuff like LE, besides the usual Ti. Edit: and Ultra.

But I'm going to do little besides frowning upon this practice. If the customer is so poorly educated as to be mislead by a name, the customer gets what they deserve.
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#9
Apocalypsee
9700 Pro said:
Remember 9800 SE etc. from the old times for those cut-down versions. ;)
Yep, also X1800 got 3 version GTO comes with 12 pipes while XL and XT with 16 pipes. Some GTO can be unlocked to 16 pipes. Some 9500 comes with L shaped memory that can be unlocked to 8 pipes similar to 9700. Feels like deja vu all over.

Is this their act trying to balance that some Ryzen 5 comes fully unlocked?
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#10
Vya Domus
Apocalypsee said:
In China the 896sp variant uses RX 560D prefix for example Yeston RX560D, but not everywhere else.
This is actually the issue that everyone refuses to acknowledge. That these card were initially meant to be sold only in Asia under an appropriate name but now they have made their way everywhere else and the manufacturers haven't changed the name accordingly.

Apocalypsee said:
Polaris21 XL while the 1024sp version is Polaris21 XT
And this.

Clearly there was indeed a very well defined distinction that was subsequently ignored.
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#11
bug
Vya Domus said:
This is actually the issue that everyone refuses to acknowledge. That these card were initially meant to be sold only in Asia under an appropriate name but now they have made their way everywhere else and the manufacturers haven't changed the name accordingly.
We get is. It's the illuminati, the extraterrestrials, the poor horoscope on a given day. Just not AMD.
Can we stop now?
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#12
Midland Dog
Vya Domus said:
If you would have done some research you would find out that the GPU was a cut down core of the 980 in such a way that it would only accept that particular memory subsystem. Clearly an international design by Nvidia , not by AIBs as they don't have access to those things. They literally couldn't build it in any other way.

The card was listed as having 4GB GDDR5 everywhere , including on Nvidia's website (it still is funnily enough). So both of them were at fault , much more so Nvidia since they completely obscured that aspect of it's specifications.

But just as always we look at things superficially.
yeah but there is still 4gb physically present on the card, like look at the memory chips, its not like your paying for missing memory, its physically there, if you look at the pcb the memory is on it. it is a 4gb card
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#13
Tatty_One
Super Moderator
IMO it should not only clearly show specs on a website, it should be clearly shown on the box also, not everyone buys from an on line retailer, the only 2 boxes that I have been able to look closely enough at did not show the SP count,. Additionally, if we were to agree that most "enthusiasts" would not be buying these cards, would an average Joe who just wants a gaming card for some low res gaming even go to a website to determine SP count? They would probably just google RX 560 and see what it came up with, maybe if they were really keen then google a review to get a feel for gaming performance.
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#14
Vya Domus
Midland Dog said:
yeah but there is still 4gb physically present on the card, like look at the memory chips, its not like your paying for missing memory, its physically there, if you look at the pcb the memory is on it. it is a 4gb card
About what are you arguing ? It has 4GB of GDDR5 memory without the bandwidth which Nvidia claimed it had. One of the memory chips is connected with a pathetically narrow bus. They obscured that aspect. That was the issue , not that it said 4GB on the box or whatever.

It's funny because most fanboys shit talked the 970 without ever knowing exactly what was the issue with it and mistakenly made the "3.5+0.5" maymays.
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#15
Th3pwn3r
Sasqui said:
Disturbing. They should have called the original the Radeon RX 560 Ti :laugh:
You smart.
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#16
9700 Pro
Apocalypsee said:
Yep, also X1800 got 3 version GTO comes with 12 pipes while XL and XT with 16 pipes. Some GTO can be unlocked to 16 pipes. Some 9500 comes with L shaped memory that can be unlocked to 8 pipes similar to 9700. Feels like deja vu all over.

Is this their act trying to balance that some Ryzen 5 comes fully unlocked?
I'm feeling too nostalgic when thinking about those. <3
Posted on Reply
#17
Caelestis
btarunr said:
The phenomenon of Radeon RX 560 graphics cards with 896 stream processors is more widespread than earlier thought. It looks like RX 560 cards with 896 stream processors will be more widely available than the previously thought Greater China region; with AMD silently editing the specifications of the SKU to have either 896 or 1,024 stream processors, as opposed to the 1,024 it originally launched with. There are no clear labeling guidelines or SKU names to distinguish cards with 896 stream processors from those with 1,024.
Strange, the cut down version is available since July in Germany and is also marked accordingly as 560D. Maybe a local PR / marketing problem?
Posted on Reply
#18
bug
Caelestis said:
Strange, the cut down version is available since July in Germany and is also marked accordingly as 560D. Maybe a local PR / marketing problem?
Idk, amazon.de lists nothing under Radeon 560D. The top 3 results when searching for Radeon 560 are all cards that do not specify the number of shaders. Not even on the manufacturer's website.
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#19
Jism
The performance will be only a few percent. Who cares.

It's not like your buying a high-end card anyway.
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#20
EarthDog
Jism said:
The performance will be only a few percent. Who cares.

It's not like your buying a high-end card anyway.
its estimated to be around 10% difference. If there is a segment which needs every fps you can get, this budget segment is it.
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#21
Jism
EarthDog said:
its estimated to be around 10% difference. If there is a segment which needs every fps you can get, this budget segment is it.
Nonsense. Show me that 10% difference. I've only read 3 to 4%. It's a budget card anyway.
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#22
Fluffmeister
This is a shame, I was lead to believe AMD were Angels!
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#23
EarthDog
Jism said:
Nonsense. Show me that 10% difference. I've only read 3 to 4%. It's a budget card anyway.
Sure...
Putting this into performance numbers, in a heavily compute or texturing-limited scenario, these lowered specifications would allow for cards around 12% slower than cards built to AMD's original specifications.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12122/amd-silently-lowers-radeon-rx-560-specifications

Again... if there is a segment where every fps matters, its the budget cards like this.
Posted on Reply
#24
Hood
Jism said:
Nonsense. Show me that 10% difference. I've only read 3 to 4%. It's a budget card anyway.
You go and buy one then, and let us know how it feels knowing you're losing 3%, 4%, or 10% performance for the same money. The rest of us will enjoy laughing while you "donate to a good cause" (giving AMD and partners permission to continue their shady practices). Oh, and while you're at it, why don't you buy one of those $900 Vega cards - oh, that's right, you can't, there's still no stock...after 4 months. So, if you're a die-hard AMD fan, you're stuck with the 500 series for now - enjoy!
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#25
EarthDog
From the Radeon Twitter account...

Radeon RX
This summer we introduced a 14 CU RX 560 to provide the market with more RX 500 series options. It’s come to our attention that there’s no clear delineation between the two variants and we taking steps to remedy this. We apologize for the confusion
They replied to toms and threw the AIBs under the bus...
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-rx560-spec-change,36061.html?sf175501572=1

Few seem to be buying it.

The toms article bunks the 970 association...

...it also states there is a "significant" performance difference.
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