Friday, April 26th 2019

Epic's Tim Sweeney Says They'd Stop Hunting for Exclusives if Steam Matched Epic Games Store in Comission Rates

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney has come out with an interesting commitment: that EPIC would stop hunting for exclusives in the PC platform is Steam were to match them in their 88% return to developers for each game sold. Being a developer themselves, Epic games have certainly looked into creating their own storefront as a way to escape the clutches of Steam's cut in the digital, PC distribution market (a move that had already been done by the likes of EA and Ubisoft, if you'll remember). A commitment to stop hunting for exclusives (and thus segregating the PC games offering across different platforms) is a clear indicator of Epic's mission with the Epic Games Store: to bring back power and returns to developers such as them (while taking a cut from the profits for themselves, obviously).

Check out after the break for the full content of Sweeney's remarks regarding their Games Store and the problem with Steam. I, for one, don't see much of a problem with virtual segregation of games across multiple PC-bound platforms - one of the strengths of PC gaming is actually the ability to install multiple applications that increase functionality, after all. But if the end game of all of this is simply to give more back to developers and Epic's move facilitates that by forcing Valve's hand in matching them for fear of drying profits - then so be it.
If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam.30% store dominance is the #1 problem for PC developers, publishers, and everyone who relies on those businesses for their livelihood. We're determined to fix it and this is the one approach that will effect major change.

Such a move would be a glorious moment in the history of PC gaming, and would have a sweeping impact on other platforms for generations to come.
Then stores could go back to just being nice places to buy stuff, rather than the Game Developer IRS.

The key "no major strings attached" points are: games can use any online systems like friends and accounts they choose, games are free to interoperate across platforms and stores, the store doesn't tax revenue on other stores or platforms (e.g. if you play Fortnite on iOS+PC)…

More "no major strings attached": if you play the game on multiple platforms, stuff you've bought can be available everywhere; no onerous certification requirements. Essentially, the spirit of an open platform where the store is just a place to find games and pay for stuff.

Tim Sweeney (@TimSweeneyEpic) April 25, 2019
Source: DSO Gaming
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224 Comments on Epic's Tim Sweeney Says They'd Stop Hunting for Exclusives if Steam Matched Epic Games Store in Comission Rates

#201
Basard
I think steam should do it for a year, watch epic disappear in short order.
Posted on Reply
#202
moproblems99
Basard, post: 4039446, member: 33749"
I think steam should do it for a year, watch epic disappear in short order.
I think this is a losing battle for Steam. I think all publishers will have their own launchers at the end of it all. All it takes is one good title to pay for the system.
Posted on Reply
#203
Vayra86
Basard, post: 4039446, member: 33749"
I think steam should do it for a year, watch epic disappear in short order.
moproblems99, post: 4039464, member: 155919"
I think this is a losing battle for Steam. I think all publishers will have their own launchers at the end of it all. All it takes is one good title to pay for the system.
That idea is based on the premise that all those publishers would gladly push an exclusive through Steam. I don't think that is the case and it may also not be Valve's agenda.

I think people forget there are two parties involved in a deal and Epic/Steam is just one half of that.
Posted on Reply
#204
moproblems99
Vayra86, post: 4039544, member: 152404"
That idea is based on the premise that all those publishers would gladly push an exclusive through Steam. I don't think that is the case and it may also not be Valve's agenda.

I think people forget there are two parties involved in a deal and Epic/Steam is just one half of that.
Yeah, I am meaning that if a publisher was to build its own launcher/store, it takes one good selling title to have the commission saved pay for the launcher/store. That should be an attractive proposition for most publishers. Most people are weak/impatient. They aren't going to miss out on all the games.
Posted on Reply
#205
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
moproblems99, post: 4039590, member: 155919"
Yeah, I am meaning that if a publisher was to build its own launcher/store, it takes one good selling title to have the commission saved pay for the launcher/store. That should be an attractive proposition for most publishers. Most people are weak/impatient. They aren't going to miss out on all the games.
Well Bethesda tried it and have pretty much admitted defeat and putting all future titles back on Steam. I have it for 76 and it’s really no better than EGS other than they do have their own decent titles for sale there.
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#206
moproblems99
INSTG8R, post: 4039634, member: 4203"
Well Bethesda tried it and have pretty much admitted defeat and putting all future titles back on Steam. I have it for 76 and it’s really no better than EGS other than they do have their own decent titles for sale there.
I don't remember anyone claiming Fall Out 76 was a good a game. They didn't fail because of the store, they failed because no one liked the game.
Posted on Reply
#207
64K
moproblems99, post: 4039637, member: 155919"
I don't remember anyone claiming Fall Out 76 was a good a game. They didn't fail because of the store, they failed because no one liked the game.
You're right about that. Fallout 76 was indeed a failure. It was a buggy, boring, repetitive, soulless abomination of the Fallout series. It should have been named Failout 76. Bethesda is still trying to put lipstick on that pig but at the end of the day it's still just a pig. Bethesda should be ashamed imo.
Posted on Reply
#208
moproblems99
64K, post: 4039646, member: 148270"
You're right about that. Fallout 76 was indeed a failure. It was a buggy, boring, repetitive, soulless abomination of the Fallout series. It should have been named Failout 76. Bethesda is still trying to put lipstick on that pig but at the end of the day it's still just a pig. Bethesda should be ashamed imo.
Pretty much describes Fallout 4. I'm sorry, that was too harsh. Fallout 4 was pretty bad in my opinion but I'll admit that it was likely do to me finishing my favorite game of all time before I started FO4. Although I did go back and try playing it a year later and it was still just as boring. If they could write stories and quests, all would be well. They do a pretty good job of creating the lore but their quest and story writing sucks. Pretty much every quest I have ever done in a Bethesda game is just a variation of the first Blades quest in Morrowind. Soul-less pretty much describes all of their games since Oblivion.
Posted on Reply
#209
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
moproblems99, post: 4039637, member: 155919"
I don't remember anyone claiming Fall Out 76 was a good a game. They didn't fail because of the store, they failed because no one liked the game.
You realize that most of their titles are also available there too right? Wolfenstein, Dishonered, Quake etc...Has nothing to do with 76, try to stay focused... I was perfectly willing to buy RAGE 2 there if that’s where it was gonna be.
Posted on Reply
#210
moproblems99
INSTG8R, post: 4039704, member: 4203"
try to stay focused
Then please elaborate on what damage these exclusives have caused if we are going to play that game. Let's see what we can eliminate:
  • No one is prohibited from acquiring the games, they are available to all
  • Games don't cost more and some actually cost less for those of us in the US
  • Some console exclusives have actually made it to PC instead of not at all
So, take it from here...
Posted on Reply
#211
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
moproblems99, post: 4039713, member: 155919"
Then please elaborate on what damage these exclusives have caused if we are going to play that game. Let's see what we can eliminate:
  • No one is prohibited from acquiring the games, they are available to all
  • Games don't cost more and some actually cost less for those of us in the US
  • Some console exclusives have actually made it to PC instead of not at all
So, take it from here...
You mentioned publishers creating their own DSFs. I used Bethesda as a tried and failed example, you go off on 76 like it has anything to do with anything, Back to you Bob...
I’m not gonna bother with the rest of it, this has ALL been answered ad nauseam many times now just like you keep repeating it ad nauseam like it’s somehow “right”
Edit: Own all those console games on console(Big Quantic Dream fan)
Posted on Reply
#212
moproblems99
INSTG8R, post: 4039718, member: 4203"
You mentioned publishers creating their own DSFs. I used Bethesda as a tried and failed example, you go off on 76 like it has anything to do with anything, Back to you Bob...
Ok, I'll expand. When was the last time Bethesda made a game that made players want to continue playing it before they pulled out all their hair? What about EA and Origin? Still going. What about Uplay and Ubisoft? Still going. 2 that have succeeded vs 1 that has failed. Bethesda is not a good example for anything except how not to do things.

INSTG8R, post: 4039718, member: 4203"
I’m not gonna bother with the rest of it, this has ALL been answered ad nauseam many times now just like you keep repeating it ad nauseam like it’s somehow “right”
No, you haven't answered anything. Saying it is bad doesn't equate to....anything. Lack of choice doesn't hold up either as it is YOUR choice not to buy it or to wait for the launcher of your choosing. So I ask again as over the last nine pages you have said nothing but 'It's bad' or 'I should be able to buy whatever I want when I want, where I want and for whatever price I want.' Or some variation of those two things.

The reason you haven't answered is because you can't find any real damage that it has caused consumers. Oh wait, that's right, Epic is only doing it so they can pay their employees, enhance EGS, enhance UE4, and make games. Shame on them.
Posted on Reply
#213
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
moproblems99, post: 4039724, member: 155919"
Ok, I'll expand. When was the last time Bethesda made a game that made players want to continue playing it before they pulled out all their hair? What about EA and Origin? Still going. What about Uplay and Ubisoft? Still going. 2 that have succeeded vs 1 that has failed. Bethesda is not a good example for anything except how not to do things.



No, you haven't answered anything. Saying it is bad doesn't equate to....anything. Lack of choice doesn't hold up either as it is YOUR choice not to buy it or to wait for the launcher of your choosing. So I ask again as over the last nine pages you have said nothing but 'It's bad' or 'I should be able to buy whatever I want when I want, where I want and for whatever price I want.' Or some variation of those two things.

The reason you haven't answered is because you can't find any real damage that it has caused consumers. Oh wait, that's right, Epic is only doing it so they can pay their employees, enhance EGS, enhance UE4, and make games. Shame on them.
And? Epic has Fortnite what other great titles have they put out lately? NONE! Just paying off publishers, and yes they are paying off publishers to lock their games behind a shit DSF just like Bethesda’s equally shit DSF. But hey I’m glad that’s okay with YOU it’s not okay with the majorly of gamers. I’m sorry you seem to think this is of any benefit to us, it’s not. I’m glad you’re happy Epic is the only winner here...you’re in minority here but carry on.

When Epic runs out of bait money and Fortnite money dries up and people like me and many others wait out this exclusivity nonsense, sales are bad and EGS goes the way of Bethesda, enjoy trying to play the 2-3 games you bought there when Tim’s failed attempt fails.

Edit: Google Phoenix Point and the way it ended up on EGS and the fact that it doesn’t even have to sell well because Epic has already paid for 91% of its costs with the bait money it got from Epic. Oh and screwing over it’s Kickstarter backers with the platform switch/exclusivity.
Posted on Reply
#214
moproblems99
INSTG8R, post: 4039735, member: 4203"
Just paying off publishers, and yes they are paying off publishers to lock their games behind a shit DSF just like Bethesda’s equally shit DSF.
It could be the biggest POS software ever, as long as it launches the game then it is doing its job.

INSTG8R, post: 4039735, member: 4203"
it’s not okay with the majorly of gamers
I don't think the majority cares. I bet you the majority on TPU don't even care. Let alone the world.

INSTG8R, post: 4039735, member: 4203"
I’m sorry you seem to think this is of any benefit to us, it’s not.
Do you even read? I don't think there is any benefit to us and just a few posts up I said there wasn't. What I said is that it doesn't cause you any harm. There many things that happen every day that benefit us. So what? If they don't harm us, then who cares? All this does is change which password you enter...unless you use the same one for everything. Tisk. Tisk.

INSTG8R, post: 4039735, member: 4203"
When Epic runs out of bait money and Fortnite money dries up and people like me and many others wait out this exclusivity nonsense, sales are bad and EGS goes the way of Bethesda, enjoy trying to play the 2-3 games you bought there when Tim’s failed attempt fails.
I only bought one, Metro Exodus. And when I finish it this weekend, I'll never need to play it again.

INSTG8R, post: 4039735, member: 4203"
Oh and screwing over it’s Kickstarter backers with the platform switch/exclusivity.
How did it screw them over? Can they not play it? Is it somehow not downloadable or playable through EGS?
Posted on Reply
#215
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
INSTG8R, post: 4039735, member: 4203"
it’s not okay with the majorly of gamers.
Actually, you’d be hard pressed to prove that point. What there is are a small very vocal minority. I know a truckload full of people IRL that have played Metro: Exodus already, on EGS. More than I remember at any time except Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and Skyrim. Anecdotal, sure, but those anecdotal sales matched the massive numbers sold.

My suspicion is you are overstating your hand, and mistake vocal protest for numbers. Most people just want to play, and will buy a game from wherever they need to, just like Im sure you in real life have products you buy from stores you can’t get elsewhere.
Posted on Reply
#216
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
rtwjunkie, post: 4039746, member: 56774"
Actually, you’d be hard pressed to prove that point. What there is are a small very vocal minority. I know a truckload full of people IRL that have played Metro: Exodus already, on EGS. More than I remember at any time except Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and Skyrim. Anecdotal, sure, but those anecdotal sales matched the massive numbers sold.

My suspicion is you are overstating your hand, and mistake vocal protest for numbers. Most people just want to play, and will buy a game from wherever they need to, just like Im sure you in real life have products you buy from stores you can’t get elsewhere.
A simple google would prove otherwise...This stuff isn’t making news because it’s being applauded...
Posted on Reply
#217
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
INSTG8R, post: 4039749, member: 4203"
A simple google would prove otherwise...This stuff isn’t making news because it’s being applauded...
Google shows results for what is vocal. The people that are just buying the games arent busy being keyboard warriors...they are playing. Its always that way. The vocal angry minority get a lot of press, but are just that, a miniority. Most people just go about their lives and dont protest or raise a stink.

Until anybody has any actual sales numbers to prove “no one” is buying games on EGS then you don’t have that argument. If they are as closemouthed about sales figures as Steam has always been, then it will remain a great mystery.
Posted on Reply
#218
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
rtwjunkie, post: 4039752, member: 56774"
Google shows results for what is vocal. The people that are just buying the games arent busy being keyboard warriors...they are playing. Its always that way. The vocal angry minority get a lot of press, but are just that, a miniority. Most people just go about their lives and dont protest or raise a stink.

Until anybody has any actual sales numbers to prove “no one” is buying games on EGS then you don’t have that argument. If they are as closemouthed about sales figures as Steam has always been, then it will remain a great mystery.
So neither of us have any real point either way then do we? But using Phoenix Point again, the money Epic paid them means they’ve already broke even without having to even make a sale so,
Sales numbers don’t even matter in that case. But the press coverage in general hasn’t been positive.
Posted on Reply
#219
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
INSTG8R, post: 4039756, member: 4203"
So neither of us have any real point either way then do we? But the press coverage in general hasn’t been positive.
And we have found a point of agreement! :)

Press coverage on any topic rarely covers the people happy or satisfied with anything, though. It doesn’t make for good income. Just something to keep in the back of your mind for the future.
Posted on Reply
#220
moproblems99
Looks like that boycott is paying off:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/metro-exodus/sales
“Epic Games store has exceeded our expectations in terms of sales in actual units of both Metro Exodus and Satisfactory during the quarter,” Wingefors tells us. “Epic Games store is in fact the group’s leading digital platform in terms of revenue generated by units sales in the quarter ending March.”

In other words, direct game sales through the Epic store brought in more money for THQ Nordic in the quarter than sales on Steam, PlayStation Network, or Xbox Live. That can be partially attributed to the higher revenue cut developers receive through Epic, but it takes more than a few percentage points to compete against the big install bases on console.
Posted on Reply
#221
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
moproblems99, post: 4053624, member: 155919"
Looks like that boycott is paying off:
I love your sarcasm! :laugh:

The joke is that the vocal minority really thought they were leading a massive boycott. :roll:
Posted on Reply
#222
moproblems99
rtwjunkie, post: 4053627, member: 56774"
I love your sarcasm! :laugh:

The joke is that the vocal minority really thought they were leading a massive boycott. :roll:
My guess is that Epic is paying THQ more money to say this so that people will let their guard down. There is no way that consumers would vote with their wallet to actually support anti-consumer practices.
Posted on Reply
#223
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
moproblems99, post: 4053629, member: 155919"
My guess is that Epic is paying THQ more money to say this so that people will let their guard down. There is no way that consumers would vote with their wallet to actually support anti-consumer practices.
If you recall, THQ was actually pissed at the move Deep Silver made, and said they were putting measures in place to make sure it didn’t happen again with one of their subsidiaries.
Posted on Reply
#224
moproblems99
rtwjunkie, post: 4053633, member: 56774"
If you recall, THQ was actually pissed at the move Deep Silver made, and said they were putting measures in place to make sure it didn’t happen again with one of their subsidiaries.
/s :cool:
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