Friday, April 26th 2019

Epic's Tim Sweeney Says They'd Stop Hunting for Exclusives if Steam Matched Epic Games Store in Comission Rates

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney has come out with an interesting commitment: that EPIC would stop hunting for exclusives in the PC platform is Steam were to match them in their 88% return to developers for each game sold. Being a developer themselves, Epic games have certainly looked into creating their own storefront as a way to escape the clutches of Steam's cut in the digital, PC distribution market (a move that had already been done by the likes of EA and Ubisoft, if you'll remember). A commitment to stop hunting for exclusives (and thus segregating the PC games offering across different platforms) is a clear indicator of Epic's mission with the Epic Games Store: to bring back power and returns to developers such as them (while taking a cut from the profits for themselves, obviously).

Check out after the break for the full content of Sweeney's remarks regarding their Games Store and the problem with Steam. I, for one, don't see much of a problem with virtual segregation of games across multiple PC-bound platforms - one of the strengths of PC gaming is actually the ability to install multiple applications that increase functionality, after all. But if the end game of all of this is simply to give more back to developers and Epic's move facilitates that by forcing Valve's hand in matching them for fear of drying profits - then so be it.
If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam.30% store dominance is the #1 problem for PC developers, publishers, and everyone who relies on those businesses for their livelihood. We're determined to fix it and this is the one approach that will effect major change.

Such a move would be a glorious moment in the history of PC gaming, and would have a sweeping impact on other platforms for generations to come.
Then stores could go back to just being nice places to buy stuff, rather than the Game Developer IRS.

The key "no major strings attached" points are: games can use any online systems like friends and accounts they choose, games are free to interoperate across platforms and stores, the store doesn't tax revenue on other stores or platforms (e.g. if you play Fortnite on iOS+PC)…

More "no major strings attached": if you play the game on multiple platforms, stuff you've bought can be available everywhere; no onerous certification requirements. Essentially, the spirit of an open platform where the store is just a place to find games and pay for stuff.

Tim Sweeney (@TimSweeneyEpic) April 25, 2019
Source: DSO Gaming
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224 Comments on Epic's Tim Sweeney Says They'd Stop Hunting for Exclusives if Steam Matched Epic Games Store in Comission Rates

#101
oxidized
rtwjunkie said:
Maybe @FordGT90Concept can answer your doubt. If you were truly interested in and knowledgeable on this topic you would have read every word he wrote about his findings. Also, multinational is not the nefarious thing you think it is. In the corporate world, this is rapidly becoming the norm, since we do not live in isolation.


If you had ANY affiliation with or were in business, you would know their only pupose is to make money! This is not an evil concept reserved for Epic. Providing a product or service is incidental. Businesses provide a product or a service they perceive is needed or there is room to grow in, and make that money, because that is their goal.


Not the first time you have called or implied my intelligence is lacking. Pretty bold of a thing to do just because you disagree, considering you know nothing of me, my education, background, accomplishments, or work history.


Great, I appreciate that! You can think something is fishy with them all you want. In the meantime, they provide a place I can buy games I want to play, because life is too short to get butthurt about it. If I wait, I may not be around, nor may you. So, I will enjoy the service they provide. It makes no difference to me because I use all of them. Indeed, that kind of makes me feel sorry for you.
Making money is usually the main one, not the ONLY one, which seems the case of Epic/Tencent, because literally they're flooding the market with garbage, literally the lowest quality possible, and yet they manage to make money, taking advantage of people's ignorance and superficiality on videogames and whatever floats around them.

I might not be an expert on business, but i surely am expert on videogames world and their history, and in this situation here it's much more important than the first one and i'm pretty quick spotting frauds, i said the week fortnite came out it was a garbage product for kids and unaware casual "gamers", and look who's playing the game, i was mad from back then at epic for abandoning Unreal in favour of a much much lower quality product, just because it could make loads money potentially, and the confirmation was epic creating their own store, which absolute crap in terms of everything really, and the icing on the cake is the paid, or should i say...Bought exclusives

Or
c) I'm right and you're clueless on the matter, and/or you're playing contrarian just for the sake of it.

Also i've never labelled "stupid" anyone here, i'm just saying it's possible that whoever is defending epic, is either clueless or not quick understanding how these kind of things work, which is another thing completely from "stupid". And again, on this matter it is like that, because there's really nothing else to add to show how evil and how crooked epic/tencent intentions are, you guys are just climbing mirrors you'll keep falling off from, this is a fight you can't win, unless you cease debating on the matter (as if there's something to debate on)


R-T-B said:
Read the thread. The program is not spyware.



yeah, reading steam titles. Big whoop. It could easily be for future integration efforts.
The program is collecting info it shouldn't and without permission essentially, that's literally spyware, no matter how important data it steals are, it's stealing data it shouldn't without any consent of the concerned user.

Besides, "it's doing something it wasn't supposed to do" aren't my words, they're actually some epic's games programmer, let's see if i manage to find the article.
Posted on Reply
#102
R-T-B
oxidized said:
The program is collecting info it shouldn't and without permission essentially, that's literally spyware,
No, it's not. Not in the context of the expected service it's providing.

There is furthermore no evidence of network transmission of said data.
Posted on Reply
#103
oxidized
R-T-B said:
No, it's not. Not in the context of the expected service it's providing.

There is furthermore no evidence of network transmission of said data.
They admitted it themselves, and the context is irrelevant, they're stealing data, end of story.
Posted on Reply
#104
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
oxidized said:
this is a fight you can't win,
Actually, it is you minority of haters that can’t win. You won’t stop this thing just because you don’t like it. Argue all you want and make all your points you want, it doesn’t change the fact that Epic is hardly the only multinational corporation. They just happened to open up another game store and launcher that you don’t like. Me, I don’t have time for all that hating and self-denial. Life is short.
Posted on Reply
#105
moproblems99
oxidized said:
product for kids and unaware casual "gamers"
The many adults that play and enjoy Fortnite would like to have a word with you. It's not for me but whatever.

Also, can you elaborate how you can get the vaunted label 'gamer'? Not a casual gamer. I wanna know how to be hardcore. How many years do you have to have invested? How many games do you have to own? How long does a 'session' need to be? How many friends do you need on your list? Since you are clearly the most knowledgeable at TPU in this area, I figured you would be best to ask.
Posted on Reply
#106
oxidized
rtwjunkie said:
Actually, it is you minority of haters that can’t win. You won’t stop this thing just because you don’t like it. Argue all you want and make all your points you want, it doesn’t change the fact that Epic is hardly the only multinational corporation. They just happened to open up another game store and launcher that you don’t like. Me, I don’t have time for all that hating and self-denial. Life is short.
We are no haters we're real loving gamers, not users who only see videogames as a way to pass time when they have nothing better to do, which in their eyes is nothing, because everything is better than playing videogames, games isn't something you do occasionally, it's almost a life style, it's an art, and like all arts there're enthusiasts and amateurs, or to better word it, casuals. You're basically saying it yourself "Me, i don't have time for all that hating and self-denial. Life is short". Skipping "hating and self-denial", which is actually care and interest, it's exactly what you lack, and exactly why you are entitled to, but shouldn't be talking about stuff you don't really have interests or care about, simply because it doesn't make sense, you can't know much since you simply "don't have time" for this stuff, so why do you talk about them, and how can you think you know about it. It's like if i start talking about cars, and i don't know a thing about them, and i magically know all about them, using my preference and my point of view to elaborate an argument and debate on a thing i literally have no clue about.

I don't think we aim to stop anything really, rather we aim to open eyes to who's willing to listen, and to who actually cares, facts are on our side, and that's enough to actually win this, even if it means it won't stop

moproblems99 said:
The many adults that play and enjoy Fortnite would like to have a word with you. It's not for me but whatever.

Also, can you elaborate how you can get the vaunted label 'gamer'? Not a casual gamer. I wanna know how to be hardcore. How many years do you have to have invested? How many games do you have to own? How long does a 'session' need to be? How many friends do you need on your list? Since you are clearly the most knowledgeable at TPU in this area, I figured you would be best to ask.
Read above.
Plus you'll feel a pretty powerful and bright aura around you when you become a real gamer.
Posted on Reply
#107
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
R-T-B said:
And that's what I'm praising.
Except that it has tied Steam's hands. You have third party resellers like Humble Bundle, Green Man Gaming, and Fanatical and you have gray market sellers like G2A. Steam is fundamentally stuck with the bill for distributing and servicing all of these customers even though they don't see a cent of it. Unless Steam changes their policy towards key accessibility, they can't afford to lower their revenue share much, if at all.

The pressure is growing for Steam to do something. It probably isn't enough yet for Steam to act but it will in time. That is, unless Steam is okay being the Lord of the Flies.
Posted on Reply
#108
moproblems99
oxidized said:
games isn't something you do occasionally, it's almost a life style, it's an art
You know, you are absolutely right. That is why I focus all my attention on the art (video game) instead of the door to museum (launcher). See, we agree.
Posted on Reply
#109
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
oxidized said:
We are no haters we're real loving gamers, not users who only see videogames as a way to pass time when they have nothing better to do, which in their eyes is nothing, because everything is better than playing videogames, games isn't something you do occasionally, it's almost a life style, it's an art, and like all arts there're enthusiasts and amateurs, or to better word it, casuals. You're basically saying it yourself "Me, i don't have time for all that hating and self-denial. Life is short". Skipping "hating and self-denial", which is actually care and interest, it's exactly what you lack, and exactly why you are entitled to, but shouldn't be talking about stuff you don't really have interests or care about, simply because it doesn't make sense, you can't know much since you simply "don't have time" for this stuff, so why do you talk about them, and how can you think you know about it. It's like if i start talking about cars, and i don't know a thing about them, and i magically know all about them, using my preference and my point of view to elaborate an argument and debate on a thing i literally have no clue about.
What are you on about? How am I not a gamer or only a casual gamer? ROFL!! To me, that is the final proof you need to spend more time here and not just on the news section. Because if you did, and if you knew anything about me, you wouldn’t even dream of applying the casual gamer label on me, as you talk about how zealous you are about gaming. I spend my time gaming, not worrying about the launcher.

Because you haven’t bothered to learn anything about who it is you are talking to, all while insulting me continuously, and not because we disagree, I will have no further communication with you.
Posted on Reply
#110
oxidized
moproblems99 said:
You know, you are absolutely right. That is why I focus all my attention on the art (video game) instead of the door to museum (launcher). See, we agree.
If the museum is not looked after and its main services like restrooms and ticket booth don't work properly the art contained won't be better than the museum itself, it'll either be on par or worse.

rtwjunkie said:
What are you on about? How am I not a gamer or only a casual gamer? ROFL!! To me, that is the final proof you need to spend more time here and not just on the news section. Because if you did, and if you knew anything about me, you wouldn’t even dream of applying the casual gamer label on me, as you talk about how zealous you are about gaming. I spend my time gaming, not worrying about the launcher.

Because you haven’t bothered to learn anything about who it is you are talking to, all while insulting me continuously, and not because we disagree, I will have no further communication with you.
So you talk like a casual gamer, you praise what casual gamers praise, you like videogames casual gamers like and you claim you're not a casual gamer? There's a label for that too, and i already mentioned it previously - unaware is the one. Besides you insist i'm insulting you, but still i see no insults, where exactly have i insulted you please show.
Posted on Reply
#111
moproblems99
oxidized said:
If the museum is not looked after and its main services like restrooms and ticket booth don't work properly the art contained won't be better than the museum itself, it'll either be on par or worse.



So you talk like a casual gamer, you praise what casual gamers praise, you like videogames casual gamers like and you claim you're not a casual gamer? There's a label for that too, and i already mentioned it previously - unaware is the one. Besides you insist i'm insulting you, but still i see no insults, where exactly have i insulted you please show.
Remember, art is in the eye of the beholder.
Posted on Reply
#112
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
oxidized said:
So you talk like a casual gamer, you praise what casual gamers praise, you like videogames casual gamers like and you claim you're not a casual gamer? T
You get one more chance. Explain yourself. You throw these insulting terms out at me without examples or explanation. You keep calling me that but it is also plain from all your posts that you know nothing about me. So please explain your font of wisdom about me and ability to label me as some kind of lesser gamer.

A true gamer plays a wide spectrum of games. You apparently have pigeonholed yourself into some kind of singular type of game that only in your tiny mind do you think that it is the opposite of casual gaming, whatever that is. The rest of the world knows what casual gamers are, and it is not a nice term. Grow up and stop trying to label people by what you think they are or what you think they know or what you think they play.

Also try visiting and contributing somewhere besides the news forum and you’d know a lot more about the people you are talking to.
Posted on Reply
#113
robot zombie
oxidized said:
We are no haters we're real loving gamers, not users who only see videogames as a way to pass time when they have nothing better to do, which in their eyes is nothing, because everything is better than playing videogames, games isn't something you do occasionally, it's almost a life style, it's an art, and like all arts there're enthusiasts and amateurs, or to better word it, casuals. You're basically saying it yourself "Me, i don't have time for all that hating and self-denial. Life is short". Skipping "hating and self-denial", which is actually care and interest, it's exactly what you lack, and exactly why you are entitled to, but shouldn't be talking about stuff you don't really have interests or care about, simply because it doesn't make sense, you can't know much since you simply "don't have time" for this stuff, so why do you talk about them, and how can you think you know about it. It's like if i start talking about cars, and i don't know a thing about them, and i magically know all about them, using my preference and my point of view to elaborate an argument and debate on a thing i literally have no clue about.
Man... you are coming off so snobby here. It's good to identify with the things you like, but when you're at the point where you are modulating the way you see people based on differences in personal identity, it can quickly become toxic and unhealthy. Just because someone else doesn't share your same sense of identity doesn't mean their opinion goes out the window, or that somehow you are more enlightened simply by how you choose to integrate your own experiences. That's just plain tunnel-vision.

Get this... we are all here because we LOVE video games. Nobody who doesn't love video games puts in the time on forums or is even aware that conversations like this are happening. Gaming as a hobby is incredibly vast and diverse, more so now than ever before. It used to be simpler. It's not anymore. There is SO much out there now. And we all have to share. No one person can embody every facet of it. There are dozens of different kinds of gamers. It's not a meaningful way to compare opinions. We could be here for the next century hashing that shit out. And by then we'd be 100 years behind the times!

I guess it comes down to how seriously you take yourself versus how seriously you take your interests. You really do have to ask yourself what it's all about. Are you in it to be a gamer? Is that something people should aspire to? Or are you simply in it because you love video games?

Put whatever label you want on it. Playing video games IS a way of passing time. Nothing more. Whether you're serious or casual about it, it's still just entertainment. The only other thing it can really be is a job. The rest are things people tell themselves it is in their own heads, simply as a way of making sense of their choices. I'll never understand why people need to glorify everything they do for fun. If your heart is really in something, there is only that. There is no 'you' to be found in it. The whole idea is that you are so wrapped up in your interests that your sense of self sort of drops off. That's why people often say they 'lose themselves' when speaking of their hobbies. It's fine if you want to think of yourself a certain way because of the things you care about. But a little stuck-up to think other people should assign the same value to those experiences and beliefs about how things should be.

You are NOT the things you do on your own time. Imagine if we tried to label ourselves based on everything we like... shit might get a little confusing. Which I think is why most folks tend to avoid such labels when trying to have serious discussions. They only really work when you're looking in a mirror. The rest of the time, they're just bullshit distractions from time better spent focusing on what you claim to love. As a tool for argument, these sorts of labels are not very practical, unless your goal is to make things personal (which I don't believe is your goal - I can tell you care a lot about the subject and I do respect that.)

Personally I'd say the line between 'real gamer' and 'casual gamer' is not all that glamorous. It's not a lifestyle in itself... that's putting one facet of a person under a microscope (usually for the sake of making an argument that otherwise would fall apart... you very rarely hear of anyone invoking the 'real gamer' card for any reason other than to assert intellectual superiority.) Being whatever you consider to be a 'gamer' is only a small part of who you are. And chances are nobody cares all that much, least of all your fellow peers in the hobby. To me, a real gamer is someone who is simply passionate about video games. They spend a lot of time playing video games, learning about them, following the goings-on, and whatnot. While a casual gamer doesn't really care much at all about it and doesn't engage with it nearly as often or as deeply, it's just potato chips to them (which I'd say there's nothing wrong with, everyone like potato chips sometimes.) A serious gamer simply wants as much of their time as possible to revolve around video games.

I think we can largely agree there... but come on, man. To take that one thing and try to invalidate someone based on that one preconceived measure of who either parties are, especially via text and nothing more, is just ridiculous. Sorry, not buying it. It is so beyond narrow and petty. Says everything about you and nothing about him. What if he actually has more games under his belt than you? Or do you somehow know that to be impossible simply based on one interaction? See where I'm going with this? Preconceiving someone else's background or identity is an easy way to make a fool out of yourself. Posturing tends to make people take your arguments less seriously. If you are who you say you are, you don't need to present yourself as such. Others will make that call and decide for themselves what to make of what you say. If your heart is truly in what you say, it will show, and people will listen to you, even if they disagree. The most serious people in any interest don't identify as such, because for them it isn't about them, but rather what they are interested in. Everything else only takes away from the conversation. Instead of arguing what is what, we're now arguing who is what, as if somehow that has any bearing on the facts.

You can't just project who you see yourself as onto other people and expect to draw any meaningful conclusions. Definitely won't get a good reaction either. This should be obvious. Too much ego and vanity in there for any productive conversation. It keeps you from actually seeing where the other person is coming from. If nobody knew anything before, you can now be damned sure they won't - and neither will you. You're getting lost in false dichotomies. "This guy isn't like me, therefore he can't know what I know." But really, how do you know that? Are you some kind of psychic timeline gazer? Can you really take a few words and see the totality of someone's life experiences? Can you tell me his hopes and dreams too? Even if you could, what does that even mean to anyone? What if actually their opinion is different because they know something you don't? That is always possible too. Additionally, sharing interests and beliefs are not one in the same. Just because someone believes differently about something doesn't mean they know or care any less.

All I'm saying is it's not a good position to put yourself in if your goal is to prove a point. All you will prove is that you're high-up on categorizing people. "You just don't care like I do..." is a pretty weak way of saying "I don't agree with you." It just doesn't quantify anything that you can sink your teeth into, address, or learn from. When you bring an issue down to something as abstract as identity, things get muddy. There is pretty much nowhere good to go from there.

oxidized said:
So you talk like a casual gamer, you praise what casual gamers praise, you like videogames casual gamers like and you claim you're not a casual gamer? There's a label for that too, and i already mentioned it previously - unaware is the one. Besides you insist i'm insulting you, but still i see no insults, where exactly have i insulted you please show.
That's really it right there. You actually just did it! I don't know how you don't see it. You are implying who someone else, who you don't know, and who probably cares as much as you do about gaming, is or is not in order to discredit that person's point of view and bolster your own. I mean, you are presupposing someone else's level of passion, which is as personal as it can get. Which yeah... not a very cool thing to do. Actually most people would say that is very insulting. You're basically telling the guy he doesn't know shit just because he doesn't agree with you. And all you offer in defense are your own opinions doused in a bunch of ribbons and sparkles. It comes off as narcissistic.

That aside, the idea that somehow a real gamer should be more concerned about how the game is launched than actually playing the game sounds really, really uppity to me. That's me. To me, if you love video games, and you want to play a particular game, you're gonna get it however you can and focus on enjoying the game. So that's what I do. Sometimes getting your hands on a game or getting it to work is absolute bullshit, but you figure it out, you play the game, and your love for games grows all the same. That's what gamers do, traditionally. Anything else is a distraction from what you really wanna be doing.

To get caught up on what the companies behind them do is something else entirely. That's fine, too. But it's a different set of interests. You're literally spending less time playing games. Why would you intentionally put something between you and a game if you love games so much? How does deciding to let what is be and enjoying the game somehow make you less of a gamer? Many people have this mindset. It doesn't mean they don't care about games. It just means their passion for games steers them differently. It doesn't mean they don't know what you do, nor that they ought to have the same taste in games as you, or even value the same things.

Of course on the flipside, people can also say that a dedicated gamer is willing to wait. Which I think is also fair. It's just a different way of manifesting the same passion for the same. exact. thing. Sort of a "pick your poison" compromise. In the end, what you choose really only affects you. There is absolutely nothing lofty about it. The world keeps turning. Every single time someone tries to argue otherwise, everything falls apart. Sort of like what's happening right now.

All of this nitpicking going on... but what does any of it have to do with whether or not what Epic is doing is a good thing?
Posted on Reply
#114
dicktracy
Comment section just proved that Steam fanboys are always angry and hates competitions.
Posted on Reply
#115
medi01
oxidized said:
if they keep going like this
If they don't "go like this", people will just click-buy on steam.

Exclusives are the "platform sellers". Exclusives are why people still buy ridiculously underpowered stinky hardware (TN vs IPS screen lottery anyone?) by Nintendo in droves.
Posted on Reply
#116
Vayra86
oxidized said:
We are no haters we're real loving gamers, not users who only see videogames as a way to pass time when they have nothing better to do, which in their eyes is nothing, because everything is better than playing videogames, games isn't something you do occasionally, it's almost a life style, it's an art, and like all arts there're enthusiasts and amateurs, or to better word it, casuals. You're basically saying it yourself "Me, i don't have time for all that hating and self-denial. Life is short". Skipping "hating and self-denial", which is actually care and interest, it's exactly what you lack, and exactly why you are entitled to, but shouldn't be talking about stuff you don't really have interests or care about, simply because it doesn't make sense, you can't know much since you simply "don't have time" for this stuff, so why do you talk about them, and how can you think you know about it. It's like if i start talking about cars, and i don't know a thing about them, and i magically know all about them, using my preference and my point of view to elaborate an argument and debate on a thing i literally have no clue about.

I don't think we aim to stop anything really, rather we aim to open eyes to who's willing to listen, and to who actually cares, facts are on our side, and that's enough to actually win this, even if it means it won't stop



Read above.
Plus you'll feel a pretty powerful and bright aura around you when you become a real gamer.
Who's is this 'we' you speak of? These 'real' gamers? You're not speaking for me, at least. Stop trying to think you do...

These eyes are wide open and the irony here is that both 'camps' are convinced the other isn't seeing some part of this 'reality'. Here's the news: There is no 'Steam community' and 'the gamer' is not a homogenous group. And even with these two camps there aren't any homogenous groups here, just a lot of opinions that seem to align in some way at some point. That group however changes all the time. With every exclusive Epic announces, it gets smaller. The Steam 'group' is not getting bigger. Its not Facebook or Instagram, despite the features that want to make it so. Its just a portal to play games through.

Its easy to say yes at some point. Its pretty difficult to keep saying no to an increasing % of the games you had on your wishlist. That is what 'gamers' are really good at: creating their own filter bubble and then complain that 'PC gaming is dying' and 'everything is a console port'.

Its time to wake up... being a customer doesn't mean always getting it your way. It means being flexible. That is how you, personally, get the most out of each deal. Or you can wait for the angry mob to sway publishers into making big investments into your specific niche... guess where that'll go - you might want to look up that 4A dev's forum post.


The bottom line is that for 90% of gamers this really is a non issue. They simply look at their wallet, look at the offer, and consider a purchase. If that happens on Steam it means they have some extra features. If it happens on EGS it'll be one of their first experiences with a different storefront, and in both cases they'll be pressing 'Play' and be in the game. End of story. All the rest is just a minority of nerds disagreeing with one another. Let's call it what it is. Time will tell if that group was ever large enough to make a dent. I just don't feel this mob mentality is being used for a greater good here. This supposed 'boycot' is biting the very hand that feeds; if you're all about gaming, this is not the way to do it.
Posted on Reply
#117
medi01
FordGT90Concept said:
Steam has a policy of not going astray of publishers unless the publisher clearly abuses Steam (e.g. 100,000 downloads for every copy of the game sold through Steam's store).
That's actually exposing the "but you can sell it anywhere else" as BS.
Posted on Reply
#118
Vayra86
robot zombie said:
Man... you are coming off so snobby here. It's good to identify with the things you like, but when you're at the point where you are modulating the way you see people based on differences in personal identity, it can quickly become toxic and unhealthy. Just because someone else doesn't share your same sense of identity doesn't mean their opinion goes out the window, or that somehow you are more enlightened simply by how you choose to integrate your own experiences. That's just plain tunnel-vision.

Get this... we are all here because we LOVE video games. Nobody who doesn't love video games puts in the time on forums or is even aware that conversations like this are happening. Gaming as a hobby is incredibly vast and diverse, more so now than ever before. It used to be simpler. It's not anymore. There is SO much out there now. And we all have to share. No one person can embody every facet of it. There are dozens of different kinds of gamers. It's not a meaningful way to compare opinions. We could be here for the next century hashing that shit out. And by then we'd be 100 years behind the times!

I guess it comes down to how seriously you take yourself versus how seriously you take your interests. You really do have to ask yourself what it's all about. Are you in it to be a gamer? Is that something people should aspire to? Or are you simply in it because you love video games?

Put whatever label you want on it. Playing video games IS a way of passing time. Nothing more. Whether you're serious or casual about it, it's still just entertainment. The only other thing it can really be is a job. The rest are things people tell themselves it is in their own heads, simply as a way of making sense of their choices. I'll never understand why people need to glorify everything they do for fun. If your heart is really in something, there is only that. There is no 'you' to be found in it. The whole idea is that you are so wrapped up in your interests that your sense of self sort of drops off. That's why people often say they 'lose themselves' when speaking of their hobbies. It's fine if you want to think of yourself a certain way because of the things you care about. But a little stuck-up to think other people should assign the same value to those experiences and beliefs about how things should be.

You are NOT the things you do on your own time. Imagine if we tried to label ourselves based on everything we like... shit might get a little confusing. Which I think is why most folks tend to avoid such labels when trying to have serious discussions. They only really work when you're looking in a mirror. The rest of the time, they're just bullshit distractions from time better spent focusing on what you claim to love. As a tool for argument, these sorts of labels are not very practical, unless your goal is to make things personal (which I don't believe is your goal - I can tell you care a lot about the subject and I do respect that.)

Personally I'd say the line between 'real gamer' and 'casual gamer' is not all that glamorous. It's not a lifestyle in itself... that's putting one facet of a person under a microscope (usually for the sake of making an argument that otherwise would fall apart... you very rarely hear of anyone invoking the 'real gamer' card for any reason other than to assert intellectual superiority.) Being whatever you consider to be a 'gamer' is only a small part of who you are. And chances are nobody cares all that much, least of all your fellow peers in the hobby. To me, a real gamer is someone who is simply passionate about video games. They spend a lot of time playing video games, learning about them, following the goings-on, and whatnot. While a casual gamer doesn't really care much at all about it and doesn't engage with it nearly as often or as deeply, it's just potato chips to them (which I'd say there's nothing wrong with, everyone like potato chips sometimes.) A serious gamer simply wants as much of their time as possible to revolve around video games.

I think we can largely agree there... but come on, man. To take that one thing and try to invalidate someone based on that one preconceived measure of who either parties are, especially via text and nothing more, is just ridiculous. Sorry, not buying it. It is so beyond narrow and petty. Says everything about you and nothing about him. What if he actually has more games under his belt than you? Or do you somehow know that to be impossible simply based on one interaction? See where I'm going with this? Preconceiving someone else's background or identity is an easy way to make a fool out of yourself. Posturing tends to make people take your arguments less seriously. If you are who you say you are, you don't need to present yourself as such. Others will make that call and decide for themselves what to make of what you say. If your heart is truly in what you say, it will show, and people will listen to you, even if they disagree. The most serious people in any interest don't identify as such, because for them it isn't about them, but rather what they are interested in. Everything else only takes away from the conversation. Instead of arguing what is what, we're now arguing who is what, as if somehow that has any bearing on the facts.

You can't just project who you see yourself as onto other people and expect to draw any meaningful conclusions. Definitely won't get a good reaction either. This should be obvious. Too much ego and vanity in there for any productive conversation. It keeps you from actually seeing where the other person is coming from. If nobody knew anything before, you can now be damned sure they won't - and neither will you. You're getting lost in false dichotomies. "This guy isn't like me, therefore he can't know what I know." But really, how do you know that? Are you some kind of psychic timeline gazer? Can you really take a few words and see the totality of someone's life experiences? Can you tell me his hopes and dreams too? Even if you could, what does that even mean to anyone? What if actually their opinion is different because they know something you don't? That is always possible too. Additionally, sharing interests and beliefs are not one in the same. Just because someone believes differently about something doesn't mean they know or care any less.

All I'm saying is it's not a good position to put yourself in if your goal is to prove a point. All you will prove is that you're high-up on categorizing people. "You just don't care like I do..." is a pretty weak way of saying "I don't agree with you." It just doesn't quantify anything that you can sink your teeth into, address, or learn from. When you bring an issue down to something as abstract as identity, things get muddy. There is pretty much nowhere good to go from there.


That's really it right there. You actually just did it! I don't know how you don't see it. You are implying who someone else, who you don't know, and who probably cares as much as you do about gaming, is or is not in order to discredit that person's point of view and bolster your own. I mean, you are presupposing someone else's level of passion, which is as personal as it can get. Which yeah... not a very cool thing to do. Actually most people would say that is very insulting. You're basically telling the guy he doesn't know shit just because he doesn't agree with you. And all you offer in defense are your own opinions doused in a bunch of ribbons and sparkles. It comes off as narcissistic.

That aside, the idea that somehow a real gamer should be more concerned about how the game is launched than actually playing the game sounds really, really uppity to me. That's me. To me, if you love video games, and you want to play a particular game, you're gonna get it however you can and focus on enjoying the game. So that's what I do. Sometimes getting your hands on a game or getting it to work is absolute bullshit, but you figure it out, you play the game, and your love for games grows all the same. That's what gamers do, traditionally. Anything else is a distraction from what you really wanna be doing.

To get caught up on what the companies behind them do is something else entirely. That's fine, too. But it's a different set of interests. You're literally spending less time playing games. Why would you intentionally put something between you and a game if you love games so much? How does deciding to let what is be and enjoying the game somehow make you less of a gamer? Many people have this mindset. It doesn't mean they don't care about games. It just means their passion for games steers them differently. It doesn't mean they don't know what you do, nor that they ought to have the same taste in games as you, or even value the same things.

Of course on the flipside, people can also say that a dedicated gamer is willing to wait. Which I think is also fair. It's just a different way of manifesting the same passion for the same. exact. thing. Sort of a "pick your poison" compromise. In the end, what you choose really only affects you. There is absolutely nothing lofty about it. The world keeps turning. Every single time someone tries to argue otherwise, everything falls apart. Sort of like what's happening right now.

All of this nitpicking going on... but what does any of it have to do with whether or not what Epic is doing is a good thing?
Holy crap, amen to this and hats off to you sir.
Posted on Reply
#119
Dexiefy
NRANM said:
I'm wrong about what exactly? That the core functionality of a client is to allow users to purchase, download, and play games? That the Epic client does not allow you to do one or more of those three?

Yes, Epic's features are currently lacking compared to Steams's. I agree completely.
So EGS is worse than Steam.
However, Steam didn't have all these features from the get-go. They were added throughout its lifetime. Refunds for example were added in 2016 if I'm not mistaken, which is rather late, but I don't remember a lot of people being outraged about that.
Who cares what Steam came with? It matters what they have right now and that is WAY more than Epic offers. If you had new smartphone company comming to the market and their phones were as good as idk, Samsung Galaxy S2, would you call them competitve with other manufacturers in 2019? No, you would not, because they would not be competitve, just as Epic does not offer enough to be considered competitve and they know it themselves, thats why they go for bribes. Epic is not competing with Steam from 15 years ago, they (want to) "compete" with Steam today.
Also, support is a tricky subject. Steam is notorious for having bad support. My personal experience on numerous occasions has been mostly negative. Now, that is no excuse for Epic to not have support, or to have just as bad of a support, but it's important to keep things in perspective.
What is tricky about it? Steam has it, Epic does not, there is nothing to discuss. Just because your personal experience with Steam support is mostly negative does not mean it is bad in general. I personally had 2-3 reasons to actually contact Steam support in total in ~15 years that I am using Steam. That alone should speak about quality of their platform in general. As for those 2-3 times I had to contact them, my issues were resolved within a day or so.
Again, so many people just can't wait to jump on the hate bandwagon the first chance they get. Is it that hard to keep a cool head, and react like adults?
The hate bandwagon was created by Epic the moment they started bribing developers. Noone cares which platform is gonna be dominant one, seriously noone... People will use what is the best. Epic practices prevent people from using what is the best and forces them to use something they don't want to use cause it is simply FAR inferior product to Steam.
I wouldn't call that "screwing" the consumer. "Screw" is a very strong word, whereas what you described is nowhere near those levels.

Yes, if a game is released at the same time on multiple platforms, that could cause its price to drop a bit more quickly due to competition for prices, however based on my observations most games, when released only on Steam, do not really go down in price all that quickly or that significantly. A discount of 5-15% isn't that much of a discount in my opinion.
You like being in denial.
First you say Epic has no feature set matching Steam's and try to talk about steam from 15 years ago as if Epic was competing wih Steam from 15 years ago, trying to show how Epic is not that bad.
Second you talk how Epic has no support whatsoever, but your personal experience with Steam support was mostly negative (or so you claim) so obviously its okay for epic to have none and Steam support existance can be disregarded.
And now appearently no discounts is better than 15% discounts... Do you even read what you are posting, or are you just trying to disagree for the sake of disagreeing.
Ask yourself 3 yes or no questions:
Is having support better than having no support whatsoever?
Is having rich feature set on a platform better than having poor feature set?
Is having ability to buy something at 5-15% discount better than paying full price?
If you answered "no" to any of those questions, you are stupid.
Again, yes, I would prefer if games were released to all platforms at the same time. But I also understand that Epic has the right to offer exclusivity deals to publishers/developers, and those publishers/developers have the right to accept or decline said deals. I am not thrilled about these exclusivity deals per se, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me that is kind of glad that someone (Epic) isn't at least trying to compete with Steam.
They are not competing with steam. They offer garbage product and try to force everyone to use it through exclusivity bribes. We, consumers, ARE NOT GAINING ANYTHING FROM IT! We are the ones who are getting screwed. It is the same shit as with PS and Xbox. If there were no exclusives, people would be able to purchase the better platform and enjoy full library of games, instead there are exclusives that block people from enjoying certain games (without purchasing another system) or force them into buying certain system. If someone loves Uncharted they HAVE TO buy Playstation if they want to play it, they can't buy an Xbox and get Xbox release. Just as it is with consoles, so it is with EGS, it is us, the consumers that are getting shafted and yet, there are people like you, trying to defend shitty practices and advocate giving companies like epic a chance...
Epic has every right to offer exclusivity deals (or bribes as they should be called) and we have every right to hate them for bringing those shitty practices on PC platform. If they want to keep their games on EGS exclusively, they can, but bribing other deves to be EGS exclusive is bad and they deserve every bit of hate, insults and all you can think of for it.

It is simply sad to see anyone actually defending "exclusivity"...
Posted on Reply
#120
Vayra86
Dexiefy said:
So EGS is worse than Steam.
It matters what they have right now and that is WAY more than Epic offers.
What dó they have? We know about the featureset difference, but other than that? The games on offer are not at all representative of the entire marketplace like it used to be at some point a few years ago. They're missing a large part of the market. Blizzard/Activision, Ubisoft and EA most notably are best not accessed through Steam. Its double DRM and it has historically been plagued by problems. Its 'OK' these days, but preferable for sure it is not. Not in the least because these publishers also don't use the additional features like Workshop etc.

Another thing Steam dóes have is a large percentage of the products on offer being complete and utter junk. Not even budget bin material, but rather some middle school project of some random dude practicing with level editors. Then, one level higher than that you have the countless indie devs ripping off assets left and right to assemble something capable of tricking gullible young people into a purchase. They call that early access, and Greenlight. How did that work out again? ;) Even today you need serious experience and a very good bullshit sensor to avoid the early access titles that are not going to go anywhere anytime soon. Steam/Valve doesn't curate much, even when it was too late their response was questionable at best, there are many examples of it.
What is tricky about it? Steam has it, Epic does not, there is nothing to discuss. Just because your personal experience with Steam support is mostly negative does not mean it is bad in general.
Exactly that is what's tricky about it. EGS has support just like Steam does, they are required by law. The refund policy is the same, even. And you're right - just because your personal experience with EGS was mostly negative, that does not mean it is bad in general. There is indeed nothing to discuss, so just don't. You have no knowledge on the quality of support on either platform apart from your N=1 experience.
The hate bandwagon was created by Epic the moment they started bribing developers.
Ah yes, and war was created by the gun manufacturers. Sound logic!
It is simply sad to see anyone actually defending "exclusivity"...
Tell me now, what is not 'exclusive' about demanding content releases on Steam and Steam alone? Preferring that one store to the extent of excluding another is the exact same exclusivity. It is one you impose upon yourself as an individual. Store exclusivity is not an end-user exclusivity at all, unless you want it to be. Access to either storefront is free of charge.

By the way, did you notice that EGS also managed to get several console exclusives (real exclusives) to the PC platform? If you're all about gaming, that is something to applaud. That is a tangible, real reduction of exclusivity for a customer, however small.

If you take a step back and judge this at face value, can you seriously not see the irony of your statements? The very same applies on the other side of the fence, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever. Its just preference, and its easy to prefer Steam because of its quality of life features. Thát is what's going on here. Everything else is just trying to argue and hide that truth. People have to get out of their comfort zone to get a product they actually wanted to buy and that gets people all worked up. And guess what, if you like to wait a half year or a year and get your game on Steam, power to you. Thát is how the marketplace really works.
Posted on Reply
#121
64K
Well, Epic plans to add a Shopping Cart feature like every other online store on the internet already has but that's one of their long term goals for the store. Maybe later this year. They did add a Search Bar like every other online store on the internet already has 2 months after the store opened though so that's something.

Should we trust Sweeney to build a store "that will rival Steam one day"? He's making a half-assed attempt so far.

Remember this thread is about Sweeney saying Steam should match his cut and he would stop the exclusives nonsense.

Honestly, unemotionally compare Steam to Epic right now. Sweeney is making this statement right now. Compare the 2 stores right now. Do you believe that Steam should be taking the same cut as EGS right now?

There is something wrong with his thinking imo.
Posted on Reply
#122
oxidized
moproblems99 said:
Remember, art is in the eye of the beholder.
Not really, there's always multiple people praising and following one art. If you're alone...Well there are some problems.

rtwjunkie said:
You get one more chance. Explain yourself. You throw these insulting terms out at me without examples or explanation. You keep calling me that but it is also plain from all your posts that you know nothing about me. So please explain your font of wisdom about me and ability to label me as some kind of lesser gamer.

A true gamer plays a wide spectrum of games. You apparently have pigeonholed yourself into some kind of singular type of game that only in your tiny mind do you think that it is the opposite of casual gaming, whatever that is. The rest of the world knows what casual gamers are, and it is not a nice term. Grow up and stop trying to label people by what you think they are or what you think they know or what you think they play.

Also try visiting and contributing somewhere besides the news forum and you’d know a lot more about the people you are talking to.
Again with insults, where do you see insults? Lesser gamer? You're just a casual gamer, there's nothing wrong being that, it's not like you have some deficiency, it means you're not too serious with them, nothing more nothing less.

A true gamer plays a wide spectrum of games, but always maintaining a high standard, and using that standard (crafted with years of experience of playing videogames) to judge and analyze a videogame and its contents, and not lowering his standard in order to appreciate what's currently on the market and what's launching on it just because "i want to have fun" or just because "anything else is worse" because if you only seek fun and amusement time into a videogame that's exactly when you can be labelled as casual gamer, which is not a bad thing as you seem to think, it's just a group of people who decided to take a different approach at videogames compared to who's really interested to. And before you start doing that, no, it's not a matter of tastes, not always, actually, most of the time it isn't, it's actually a matter of appreciating the art and the passion put in a game, and being able to distinguish something we refer as good (just because we like it) from something we refer as bad (just because we don't like it) liking/not liking must be a completely different thing from good/not good, i have several videogames (also music and movies) i like, but they're not necessarily good, meaning, i can't go around saying they're good because i like it, because it's not true, i like it because i like it, and that's the end of the story, same with the opposite, what i don't like isn't necessarily bad, but of course there's also the case where, i like what's good, and dislike what's bad, and this is one of those situations. There's objectively bad and good, and it has to stay separate from subjectively bad and good.

I keep seeing the same people on this forum, especially in the news section, i'm more of a "disqus" guy, that's why i mostly comment on news, i don't bother with else unless i need it, besides i don't need to know you in person to understand your point of view on videogames, it's enough reading your position regarding this matter here, which gives me a pretty significant hint, and your previous avatar also gives me another hint. Stop thinking casual gamers are bad, they're just casual gamers, it's as simple as that.

robot zombie said:
WoT
Whew that took me 5 minutes

Anyway, i want to clarify a few things first. Number one, i'm not judging people about their life on anything except videogames, i'm only talking about videogames here, rtwjunkie can be the nicest guy in the world, i can't know that, but in this discussion here, i don't really care, what i care about is his point of view on this matter, and i'm judging that only, not else, that's why him, and you should take this much more lightly than what you are, because i don't intend to insult anyone, but if any of you feels insulted there's not much i can do honestly, i'm just not insulting. Second, videogaming is time passing for everyone essentially, but there's quality time passing, that which replaces (or is part of) even of the things considered to be of utmost importance in life, that's how serious i think videogames are it's not any tunnel vision.

"Get this... we are all here because we LOVE video games. Nobody who doesn't love video games puts in the time on forums or is even aware that conversations like this are happening "
Wrong, many people (i'm not saying it's necessarily this situation here) like to talk even if they're way out of their field or interests, because they like to be in the middle of the discussion and like to get all sort of attentions, and that is very common on forums especially, but also in real life, speaking just for the sake of it, to create a mean to exchange a few words, because there's either nothing better to do, or we want to prove anything either to us, or to others, or both.

What i think is that if someone truly likes something, anything really, it should be their main focus, and put as much time possible in it, very logical if you ask me.

What you do determines partly who you are, and you can determine a big part of a person's character by knowing their tastes in music in movies, in anything really, included videogames, but since we're not talking about anything else except videogames i'd maintain the focus on that.

A serious gamer simply wants as much of their time as possible to revolve around video games.
Exactly, but not anyone spends the same way this said time on them, and it's not the amount i'm talking about, it's the intensity and the passion which is equally, if not more important the the amount.

I'm just playing detective here, i'm using hints to understand people's taste, and i'm not using one hint, i'm using multiple, and until now i've been pretty much always right about my "preconceiving" and pretty much always i centered or gone very near my initial analysis. Of course i won't reveal my analysis here, it would be too easy to counter that just to make me look like a fool, no sir, i'm pretty sure i've centered 100% his character and tastes as a videogamer, we might have some favorite games in common, or some games we refer to as very high quality, but what matters is the average game.

Again what i'm talking about here is videogames only, and i can draw conclusions based on different hints, i'm not "judging" the guy on anything else except videogames, as i already said, he might even be the nicest person on the planet, but that's not the subject now. I have many friends i know in person, (and through internet) who are very casual gamers, everyone to a different degree, it's not like i'll stop being their friend just because they don't agree with what i think on this thing, but the fact they're casual gamers remains, and there's nothing wrong with that.

"That aside, the idea that somehow a real gamer should be more concerned about how the game is launched than actually playing the game sounds really, really uppity to me"
Not more, he should be equally concerned. What is it people, it works when the subjects of the discussion are intel, AMD and nvidia, and not when it's video game PC platforms/stores? Come on!

Many people have this mindset. It doesn't mean they don't care about games. It just means their passion for games steers them differently.
It steers in the casual direction - What matters is having fun, no matter how i do it, who i pay, and what i use, just fun.

All of this nitpicking going on... but what does any of it have to do with whether or not what Epic is doing is a good thing?
Oh it has much to do...Because until now, i've heard or read only a certain group of people defending epic, and all those shared the same mentality and way of thinking, that's what it has to do.


I ask you to be more concise next time, just because you've repeated yourself several times in this one, and you've answered stuff you misunderstood from my posts (the fault was probably mine, i'm not really that good explaining, especially in my non native language).

dicktracy said:
Comment section just proved that Steam fanboys are always angry and hates competitions.
Competition? :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#123
NRANM
oxidized said:
Competition? :laugh:
Yes. What Epic is doing is creating competition, which is beneficial for the consumer.

Of course, you may not like the way Epic is competing, but that doesn't change the fact that we are seeing a textbook example of competition being introduced to the market.

ADDED: Now that I think about it. I think this is the closest to an actual, true competitor to Steam that we have ever gotten.

You can huff and puff all you want, you aren't going to bring the house down. :)
Posted on Reply
#124
64K
NRANM said:
Yes. What Epic is doing is creating competition, which is beneficial for the consumer.

Of course, you may not like the way Epic is competing, but that doesn't change the fact that we are seeing a textbook example of competition being introduced to the market.

ADDED: Now that I think about it. I think this is the closest to an actual, true competitor that we have ever gotten.

You can huff and puff all you want, you aren't going to bring the house down. :)
Yes and no. Competition is being created but calling it a textbook example is a bit unusual. Maybe overall in a business sense it is but none of the other online game stores did what Epic is doing. None of them built up their store by paying other Publishers to make their games exclusive on their store. This is what people are "huffing and puffing" about.
Posted on Reply
#125
oxidized
NRANM said:
Yes. What Epic is doing is creating competition, which is beneficial for the consumer.

Of course, you may not like the way Epic is competing, but that doesn't change the fact that we are seeing a textbook example of competition being introduced to the market.

ADDED: Now that I think about it. I think this is the closest to an actual, true competitor to Steam that we have ever gotten.

You can huff and puff all you want, you aren't going to bring the house down. :)
Competition is useful and just when it offers advantages where the other part lacks, or when it offers something different, and Epic isn't doing any of it, there's no need to bring down anything, it'll fall itself with time.
Posted on Reply
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