Monday, May 20th 2019

After a 4 Year Leave, AMD Rejoins the Fortune 500 List

The Fortune 500 lists the top 500 companies in the worold in terms of revenue. These are the most significant movers in the markets, be it of real estate, mining, hedge fund, or semiconductor nature (among others). AMD was "kicked" out of the Fortune 500 back in 2015, when the company was struggling with its Bulldozer-based processors and had an increasingly small marketshare - and thus revenue - that Zen came on to save. Now, thanks to the efforts of everyone involved in the company, they've been listed again on the #460 spot.

The company has been winning minds and wallets when it comes to their CPU solutions in both the mainstream and professional segments, with the company making very important forays into the HPC world mostly thanks to the strength of their CPU lineup - which, in some cases, like with the Frontier Supercomupter (expected to be the world's fastest), can bring wins in the GPU computing department as well. For comparison's sake, Intel stands at a commanding #43, while NVIDIA enjoys a comfortable #268 place.
Source: Fortune 500
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28 Comments on After a 4 Year Leave, AMD Rejoins the Fortune 500 List

#1
danbert2000
If AMD gets Navi chips up and selling, they will have cemented a baseline of success for many years to come. If not, they will have to rely on Ryzen/Zen to be the breadwinners, and that will require continual R&D to never fall so far behind Intel again. I hope their research into Zen 3 and 4 is moving forward with that in mind. We can't have Bulldozer doldrums for a decade ever again, that would probably kill them dead next time.
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#2
Hardware Geek
Nice to see AMD isn't affected by the latest flaws too, so their processors will be more compelling with no need to disable SMT.
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#3
lexluthermiester
Hardware Geek, post: 4051035, member: 172426"
Nice to see AMD isn't affected by the latest vulnerabilities too, so their processors will be more compelling with no need to disable SMT.
Fixed that for you. The latest problems with Intel's CPU's are not flaws. They are vulnerabilities discovered in the normal process functionality of said CPU's. The distinction is subtle, but important.

Back on topic, it's good to see AMD back in this list. Suspect they're going to be there for a while.
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#4
crazyeyesreaper
Chief Broken Rig
danbert2000, post: 4051020, member: 165365"
If AMD gets Navi chips up and selling, they will have cemented a baseline of success for many years to come. If not, they will have to rely on Ryzen/Zen to be the breadwinners, and that will require continual R&D to never fall so far behind Intel again. I hope their research into Zen 3 and 4 is moving forward with that in mind. We can't have Bulldozer doldrums for a decade ever again, that would probably kill them dead next time.
I wouldn't call Navi a baseline for success its the last generation of GCN, what comes after Navi is whats important at this point.

Nvidia still isn't using 7nm either meaning they can easily take their already competitive lineup and shrink it once its mature.

Still its good to see AMD doing well again.
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#6
Hardware Geek
lexluthermiester, post: 4051043, member: 134537"
Fixed that for you. The latest problems with Intel's CPU's are not flaws. They are vulnerabilities discovered in the normal process functionality of said CPU's. The distinction is subtle, but important.

Back on topic, it's good to see AMD back in this list. Suspect they're going to be there for a while.
A lot of tech outlets are calling these flaws.

Semantics aside, my point stands.
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#7
Mussels
Moderprator
Worold, eh?

I worry what the flatat earthers will think
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#8
Sora
maybe if they had a competent GPU architect for those 4 years they wouldn't have ever left.
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#9
R-T-B
Mussels, post: 4051069, member: 1746"
Worold, eh?

I worry what the flatat earthers will think
...


I feel bad for abandoning raevenlord to the newsfeed right now. Typos like this are a clear sign of working too fast, for whatever reason. I think he's one of the better writers though, just needs to watch his time management maybe. Kudos dude.
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#10
Mussels
Moderprator
R-T-B, post: 4051072, member: 41983"
...


I feel bad for abandoning raevenlord to the newsfeed right now. Typos like this are a clear sign of working too fast, for whatever reason. I think he's one of the better writers though, just needs to watch his time management maybe. Kudos dude.
we'll bring out the paddles and teach him shame, you can watch

good to see AMD as one of the real big boys again
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#11
Fluffmeister
Definitely good news, the only underdogs worth supporting are on the fortune 500.
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#12
R-T-B
Mussels, post: 4051078, member: 1746"
we'll bring out the paddles and teach him shame, you can watch
lol, I always wanted to beat someone with a paddle.
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#13
R-T-B
Fluffmeister, post: 4051080, member: 101373"
Definitely good news, the only underdogs worth supporting are on the fortune 500.
Underdog... fortune 500... uh... confusion.

lexluthermiester, post: 4051043, member: 134537"
Fixed that for you. The latest problems with Intel's CPU's are not flaws. They are vulnerabilities discovered in the normal process functionality of said CPU's. The distinction is subtle, but important.
This is actaully true but the point is largely irrelevant to the consumer in end result. Still it does matter to those who think these are legit "engineered NSA backdoors" or something. That is absurdity.
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#14
Crackong
danbert2000, post: 4051020, member: 165365"
If AMD gets Navi chips up and selling, they will have cemented a baseline of success for many years to come. If not, they will have to rely on Ryzen/Zen to be the breadwinners, and that will require continual R&D to never fall so far behind Intel again. I hope their research into Zen 3 and 4 is moving forward with that in mind. We can't have Bulldozer doldrums for a decade ever again, that would probably kill them dead next time.
Don't forget PS5 / Next gen XBOX.
They are all Zen2 + Navi .
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#15
Mussels
Moderprator
Moderators can remove whatever they feel like.
I just removed my pants.
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#16
R-T-B
Sora, post: 4051070, member: 186096"
maybe if they had a competent GPU architect for those 4 years they wouldn't have ever left.
Honestly I think they were good to focus on CPU. It got us Ryzen. Focusing on GPU got us bulldozer and a generally weakened AMD market position. Just what I have observed.

Mussels, post: 4051123, member: 1746"
Moderators can remove whatever they feel like.
I just removed my pants.
You aren't very sneaky. But still, I'm not going to tell you what to do. Let it hang my man.
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#17
Nkd
danbert2000, post: 4051020, member: 165365"
If AMD gets Navi chips up and selling, they will have cemented a baseline of success for many years to come. If not, they will have to rely on Ryzen/Zen to be the breadwinners, and that will require continual R&D to never fall so far behind Intel again. I hope their research into Zen 3 and 4 is moving forward with that in mind. We can't have Bulldozer doldrums for a decade ever again, that would probably kill them dead next time.
zen 3 is already done and zen 4 is what they are working on. They are one step ahead in execution which is very important. Also I can bet right now right after zen 3 launches they will be working on zen 5. They know what they need to survive and that is to keep executing on the CPU side and that will also result in turnaround on the GPU side.
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#18
yotano211
Since they got relisted back on the 500 list, lots of mutual funds that track the S&P 500 charts will start buying it. So I think AMD stock will rise quite a bit over the next year.
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#19
londiste
Crackong, post: 4051094, member: 185495"
Don't forget PS5 / Next gen XBOX.
They are all Zen2 + Navi .
Consoles are a high volume, (very) low margin business. Besides, we do not know the deals AMD is making with Sony and supposedly Microsoft. Depending on the deal they reach, AMD may end up just taking the money while Sony/Microsoft deal with chip manufacturing etc.
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#20
JAB Creations
Sora, post: 4051070, member: 186096"
maybe if they had a competent GPU architect for those 4 years they wouldn't have ever left.
This is the type of arrogant ignorance that shouldn't be tolerated. Even if AMD had the near monopolistic 80% of the GPU market it would still only make up a small percentage of their total revenue. While AMD obviously cares about all of their customers they have to make sure that the lights stay on, that the debt is kept in check and keep the R&D moving forward all at the same time. No one in their right mind gives a damn what some petty arrogant person mouthing off on a website comment thinks.
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#21
londiste
How large a share is CPU and GPU business in AMD's revenue/income? How much larger are comparable numbers from Intel and Nvidia respectively?

Edit:
Tried googling a little, focused on first quarter of calendar year 2019 and consumer side of things:

AMD: http://ir.amd.com/static-files/64fc9ab8-d846-49c9-8dda-371e53a34552
$831M from Computing and Graphics (which seems to be mainstream segment considering enterprice/datacenter is listed separately), $1272M total.
Gross Margin 41%, this is surely lower in Computing and Graphics. Upwards trend.

Nvidia: https://s22.q4cdn.com/364334381/files/doc_financials/quarterly_reports/2020/Q120/Q1FY20-CFO-Commentary.pdf
This says Nvidia GPU business was $2B in Q1FY20, Gaming "market platform" is about $1B of this.
Overall Gross Margin is 59%, again, this is surely lower in the Gaming part of things with a downwards trend.

Intel: https://s21.q4cdn.com/600692695/files/doc_financials/2019/Q1/Q1-2019_EarningsRelease_Final.pdf
Client Computing Group $7.8B, but this includes a lot more than just processors and PCHs. Wifi, cellular, Thunderbolt and mobile stuff.
Overall gross margin 56.6%, lower in consumer things as usual, trend strongly downwards.
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#22
JAB Creations
londiste, post: 4051318, member: 169790"
How large a share is CPU and GPU business in AMD's revenue/income? How much larger are comparable numbers from Intel and Nvidia respectively?
I heard it on AdoredTV and while I doubt (though would love to see) 5GHz 16 core CPUs most of his information makes sense. I couldn't find any visual graph on an image search though you could piece it together. Effectively Microsoft and Sony are keeping AMD alive via their consoles which while not high margins do provide a steady revenue. AMD can make a ton of money selling server grade CPUs and with the rumored four threads per core they're going to absolutely slaughter Intel in the coming years. Obviously once they pay down the debt more (incurred from fighting Intel, very hostile and pro-monopolitic company) and have increased revenues from the server segment they'll be able to justify increasing the R&D on the GPU part of the industry. No, not what gamers want to hear right now but if we're to at least have a duopoly instead of a monopoly we need AMD to do exactly what they're doing right now. Frankly I can live with max settings at 60 FPS at 4K with the few games I have time to play right now on an all-AMD rig that is roughly seven years old. Granted I will upgrade this summer though it's more core and storage related. I would personally really like to see liquid cooling become mainstream for GPUs; regardless of whether it's been Nvidia or AMD I've always have had to deal with air cooling being insufficient and having to dial the clocks down. Regardless everything still plays fantastic for me.
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#23
londiste
JAB Creations, post: 4051322, member: 157241"
Effectively Microsoft and Sony are keeping AMD alive via their consoles which while not high margins do provide a steady revenue.
Looking at financial statements, this actually currently looks bleak for AMD. Numbers seem to be roughly the same across last few quarters but using the same first quarter of calendar year 2019. Trend for this should be upwards though, so that is a good thing.

AMD Data Center, Embedded and Semi-custom revenue (that includes both servers as well as consoles) is a little over 50% of what Computing and Graphics segment brings in.

For comparison, Nvidia gets 60% from Data Center (Teslas) and additional 25% from Professional Visualization (Quadro). This is revenue as percentage of Gaming segment revenue. Intel gets about 57% from Data Center (with downward trend). Again, revenue as percentage of Client Computing Group revenue.
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#24
JAB Creations
londiste, post: 4051328, member: 169790"
Looking at financial statements, this actually currently looks bleak for AMD. Numbers seem to be roughly the same across last few quarters but using the same first quarter of calendar year 2019. Trend for this should be upwards though, so that is a good thing.

AMD Data Center, Embedded and Semi-custom revenue (that includes both servers as well as consoles) is a little over 50% of what Computing and Graphics segment brings in.

For comparison, Nvidia gets 60% from Data Center (Teslas) and additional 25% from Professional Visualization (Quadro). This is revenue as percentage of Gaming segment revenue. Intel gets about 57% from Data Center (with downward trend). Again, revenue as percentage of Client Computing Group revenue.
Ah, I didn't catch the second to last reply, my bad. Nice catch, I have to work and I read tech news to warm up my mind for the day.

Unfortunately 'Computing and Graphics' is a very blanket/general term. I believe I've seen unit count numbers in reports in the past, maybe through HardOCP (RIP and damn Intel for killing off a damn good source of news). The challenge is putting a dollar price on the total unless they have a report with that break down too?

Obviously with the report you linked to they are slowly knocking down the debt and increasing their R&D costs. There isn't any way around it, they've got a ways to go. At the end of the day when I'm in a position to upgrade my GPU I'm going to buy the best I can with the money that I have which almost always is AMD. Liquid cooling is a must at this point though and I'd love to see upper-midrange and up to include at least some models. Plus I see way too many "high end" cards sporting part or even full aluminum heatsinks plus the fins point to the side instead of moving the heat out to the back of the case.

The problem with market share is mindset. Unfortunately most people don't use their brains for critical thinking. In example if Nvidia has the fastest video card then a very disproportionate percent of the market will buy a $100 GPU from Nvidia with 40% less performance than AMD because they're reading benchmarks for $800+ cards. The Radeon VII card isn't bad from the benchmarks middling between the 2070 and 2080 and people act like it's some great disappointment. I think HBM2 has it's place though realistically once AMD has more of a budget to work with I'm sure we'll see GDDR6 and HBM2 high end cards come out at the same time. Plus people doing video editing think 16GB cards are a boon since they keep running out of GPU memory on other cards (and Nvidia's wacky RAM numbers just make my roll my eyes, 11GB? Seriously?). So many people act like it's disappointment, doom and gloom but I don't see them standing in David's shoes fighting against a Goliath. AMD is still securing their place in the market, the only difference now though is that they have more of a long term grip on things.
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#25
londiste
You are overestimating mindset and underestimating different viewpoints or priorities. :)
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