Tuesday, May 21st 2019

Sapphire Reps Leak Juicy Details on AMD Radeon Navi

A Sapphire product manager and PR director, speaking to the Chinese press spilled the beans on AMD's upcoming Radeon Navi graphics card lineup. It looks like with Navi, AMD is targeting the meat of the serious gamer market, at two specific price points, USD $399 with a "Pro" (cut-down) product, and $499 with an "XT" (fully-fledged) product. AMD has two NVIDIA products in its crosshairs, the GeForce RTX 2070, and the RTX 2060. In the interview, the Sapphire rep mentioned "stronger than 2070", when talking about performance numbers, which we assume is for the Navi XT variant - definitely promising. The $399 Navi "Pro" is probably being designed with a performance target somewhere between the RTX 2060 and RTX 2070, so you typically pay $50 more than you would for an RTX 2060, for noticeably higher performance.

Sapphire also confirmed that AMD's Navi does not have specialized ray-tracing hardware on the silicon, but such technology will debut with "next year's new architecture". They also suggested that AMD is unlikely to scale up Navi for the enthusiast segment, and that the Vega-based Radeon VII will continue to be the company's flagship product. On the topic of Radeon VII custom designs, Sapphire commented that "there is no plans for that". On the other hand, Sapphire is actively working on custom designs for the Navi architecture, and mentioned that "work on a "Toxic" version of Navi is complete, and it is watercooled". Many people have speculated that AMD will unveil Navi at its Computex keynote address on May 27. Sapphire confirmed that date, and also added that the launch will be on 7th of July, 2019.
Source: Zhihu (Blog)
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119 Comments on Sapphire Reps Leak Juicy Details on AMD Radeon Navi

#76
dicktracy
Looks like price fixing to me. AMD is charging their GPUs according to Nvidia’s current pricing scheme. Investigate nvidia and AMD plz k thz bye.
Posted on Reply
#77
john_
I haven't read the comments but I guess most are put in two categories. Correct me if I am wrong.

1) Poor AMD, always behind Nvidia. HAHAHAHAHA
2) Why, why AMD don't you produce something better? I want to buy cheaper NVIDIA card.
Posted on Reply
#78
unikin
john_, post: 4051544, member: 137560"
I haven't read the comments but I guess most are put in two categories. Correct me if I am wrong.

1) Poor AMD, always behind Nvidia. HAHAHAHAHA
2) Why, why AMD don't you produce something better? I want to buy cheaper NVIDIA card.
I'm in
3) AMD get your FU GPU R&D team in order, stop relying on 7 yo GCN architecture already, do some actual R&D on gaming sagment and offer me something decent to buy.

I've been buying Red team since ATI, but stopped with HD 7870. I'd jump on buying anything Red with decent price/performance ratio and 4K capable. Sadly nothing on horizon, so I had to buy 2nd hand 1080TI for 390 bucks. I'd rather stop gaming than pay $700 to NGreedia for the same price/performance ratio in 4K GPU segment more than 2 years later (the same goes for AMD's Radeon VII). FU both!
Posted on Reply
#79
GoldenX
Vya Domus, post: 4051251, member: 169281"
You do know GCN is nothing more than a label, right?
Yes and no, Mesa drivers change after a big arch change. Radeonsi means Radeon Southern Islands, it will keep working as long as AMD keeps using GCN.
The previous driver is R600, meaning it covers all Terascale cards from HD2000 to HD6000.
Posted on Reply
#80
Casecutter
Am I the only one...
The only thing I might take away from to Chinese "whatever" translation... was that 7/7/2019 Release? I feel that this all super sketchy, either that or this guy no-longer has job... or AMD had blessed him to spill a bunch of FUD.
Posted on Reply
#81
unikin
Casecutter, post: 4051562, member: 94772"
Am I the only one...
The only thing I might take away from to Chinese "whatever" translation... was that 7/7/2019 Release? I feel that is all super sketchy, either that or this guy no-longer has job... or AMD had blessed him to spill a bunch of FUD.
Sapphire is AMDs biggest add-in-board partner so either this dude was drunk, wanted to be fired and sued or he's actually leaking out intentionally not to get overhyped about AMD saving the day when it comes to pricing. I'd say the last one is most probable scenario. Think about it overhyped VEGA and out of the blue RADEON VII were 2 DOA releases. If AMD doesn't want to/can't start price war with NVidia, overhyped NAVI will be DOA too. If that's the case smart move would be to lower expectations though leaks, so disappointment isn't so great to turn off even the most loyal Red buyers.
Posted on Reply
#82
jabbadap
Casecutter, post: 4051562, member: 94772"
Am I the only one...
The only thing I might take away from to Chinese "whatever" translation... was that 7/7/2019 Release? I feel that this all super sketchy, either that or this guy no-longer has job... or AMD had blessed him to spill a bunch of FUD.
Yeah that's bloody Sunday, an odd day to release anything. Either way bar is currently set quite low by nvidia, AMD has a great change to get back to high end laptop dgpu market(Let's face it Polaris actually never really cut it on laptops, Pascal's perf/W figures ran circles around it). And now with Ryzen they have a complete package to offer. I would love to see them release Navi to all platforms at once and at least with two different chips.
Posted on Reply
#83
Valantar
unikin, post: 4051555, member: 182654"
I'm in
3) AMD get your FU GPU R&D team in order, stop relying on 7 yo GCN architecture already, do some actual R&D on gaming sagment and offer me something decent to buy.

I've been buying Red team since ATI, but stopped with HD 7870. I'd jump on buying anything Red with decent price/performance ratio and 4K capable. Sadly nothing on horizon, so I had to buy 2nd hand 1080TI for 390 bucks. I'd rather stop gaming than pay $700 to NGreedia for the same price/performance ratio in 4K GPU segment more than 2 years later (the same goes for AMD's Radeon VII). FU both!
I sincerely hope they're channeling a serious chunk of that Ryzen cash into future GPU R&D. It's quite obvious they've been starved for resources for quite some time.
Posted on Reply
#84
64K
Valantar, post: 4051578, member: 171585"
I sincerely hope they're channeling a serious chunk of that Ryzen cash into future GPU R&D. It's quite obvious they've been starved for resources for quite some time.
AMD is doing better financially than they have in many years and have been showing a profit but they are also trying to pay down debt. That was strangling them for years.

With Intel entering the consumer discrete GPU arena next year it might not seem wise to AMD to put too much into RTG. If Intel makes a decent showing then they will surely take some market share away from Nvidia and AMD.
Posted on Reply
#85
Midland Dog
btarunr, post: 4051181, member: 43587"
You are assuming that Navi as an architecture is slower than Turing on the basis of Vega being slower than Turing?
who isnt? its confirmed GCN, vega was promised to have features to make it more competitive and the majority of those features are broken, also its a gddr card so its gunna be bandwidth starved anyway, im betting 12gbps which means it has lower bandwidth than the 2070
Posted on Reply
#86
Vayra86
cucker tarlson, post: 4051389, member: 173472"





I hope no one here has short terms memory loss to believe what reps say



updated may 19

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Grafikkarten-Grafikkarte-97980/Specials/Rangliste-GPU-Grafikchip-Benchmark-1174201/2/




this has ddr6,less cu,lower clocks and worse performance per cu than R7 which beats 2070 by 6%.
stronger than 2070,yeah,right.


come on,let's not pretend that 90% of such channels cater for anything more than one or the other fanbases exclusively."this video is nothing new from what you've already seen a hundred times" doesn't earn clicks.look at pcgh test above.or the one that computerbase.de recently updated too.
worthless videos.but you go ahead and believe what they tell you.and don't forget to like and subscribe :)

they're gonna have to throw in one hell of a game bundle for people to defend this.
Dude you forgot the totally revamped GCN! Its going to change everything. Not at launch though, shit needs to mature first until its obsolete.

All in good fun ofcourse ;)
Posted on Reply
#87
cucker tarlson
Vayra86, post: 4051613, member: 152404"
Dude you forgot the totally revamped GCN! Its going to change everything. Not at launch though, shit needs to mature first until its obsolete.

All in good fun ofcourse ;)
this one always gets what's going on.
Posted on Reply
#88
bug
Valantar, post: 4051578, member: 171585"
I sincerely hope they're channeling a serious chunk of that Ryzen cash into future GPU R&D. It's quite obvious they've been starved for resources for quite some time.
64K, post: 4051582, member: 148270"
AMD is doing better financially than they have in many years and have been showing a profit but they are also trying to pay down debt. That was strangling them for years.

With Intel entering the consumer discrete GPU arena next year it might not seem wise to AMD to put too much into RTG. If Intel makes a decent showing then they will surely take some market share away from Nvidia and AMD.
I'm pretty sure AMD knows better what they need to do. And they have been executing admirably lately.
But they bought ATI at seemingly the worst possible time and have been trying to recoup from that ever since. It's almost a miracle they kept afloat since.
Posted on Reply
#89
cucker tarlson
unikin, post: 4051537, member: 182654"
If leak turns out to be true, this is how I would describe AMD - PC gamers relationship:


Jeeeezuz Christ dude

:roll:
Posted on Reply
#90
efikkan
Navi, if we assume it will ship in volumes in Q3, will be 1.5 years behind the original schedule. Polaris, Vega and Navi were intended to be quick iterative changes of GCN. There is always a balancing act between doing too small and too large changes, and it seems AMD this time have wasted too much time on too many cycles of small changes. Let's hope they don't fall into this pit with Zen 3 … Zen 5.

bug, post: 4051638, member: 157434"
But they bought ATI at seemingly the worst possible time and have been trying to recoup from that ever since. It's almost a miracle they kept afloat since.
I believe AMD's situation in graphics is their own fault.
ATI managed to focus development and compete with most of Nvidia's lineup despite very limited resources. After AMD took over, they shifted too much resources around, focused too much on APUs and custom chips, plus dead end projects like ARM Opterons, project "skybridge" and K12. Then decided to "milk" GCN for far too long.
Posted on Reply
#91
bug
efikkan, post: 4051661, member: 150226"
I believe AMD's situation in graphics is their own fault.
ATI managed to focus development and compete with most of Nvidia's lineup despite very limited resources. After AMD took over, they shifted too much resources around, focused too much on APUs and custom chips, plus dead end projects like ARM Opterons, project "skybridge" and K12. Then decided to "milk" GCN for far too long.
It was really more complicated than that. Riding on K8's success, AMD spent a crapload of money to buy ATI. As soon as the acquisition was complete, Intel hit them with Core, while AMD only had K10. Strapped for cash and outgunned in the CPU market, AMD had to sell Imageon at a moment when mobiles were taking off, severing another source of income.
K8 (and probably Bullldozer) were a done deal by then, but luckily ATI various "islands" cards were up to the task for a while. And when their GPU designs were getting long in the tooth, we got Zen and now everybody looks at the CPU division to keep things afloat.
In short, I would like to emphasize two things:
1. While it may look like, at times, one division or the other was incompetent, it really comes down to 1 or 2 uninspired designs for each division.
2. The whole point of having several product lines is that you expect one line to underperform at times and you don't want to have to close shop when that happens.
3. Remember AMD has done all they've done for more than a decade, while in the red.
Posted on Reply
#92
Casecutter
efikkan, post: 4051661, member: 150226"
were intended to be quick iterative changes of GCN.
I think on that you're right, although I think GloFlo, mining and memory (shortages) and GDDR6 production all got in the way. And the biggest was then lack of money, Lisa Su coming to RTG taking focus off gaming cards (Raja departure) and making AI and professional compute a growth initiative. I think Navi was a 12nm GDDR6 card and not the 7nm "pipe cleaner" it is today. I think GloFlo had told AMD a line of goods on what they could produce and when it was going off course, AMD finally was able to pull -stakes and move back to TSCM.

Wanted to add this...
efikkan, post: 4051661, member: 150226"
Navi, if we assume it will ship in volumes in Q3, will be 1.5 years behind the original schedule
Imagine if Navi was on a better 12nm (slightly better than what GloFlo got with RX 590), had Navi GCN improvements (incremental), and with all of GDDR6 goodness. And they had all that culminate in Q1 2018. That would have been like 1.5 years after the GTX 1070 in the market, if a Navi got 20% more that the RX590 it could have placed pressure GTX 1070 pricing.
Posted on Reply
#93
IceShroom
unikin, post: 4051537, member: 182654"
If leak turns out to be true, this is how I would describe AMD - PC gamers relationship:


It is the other way around. Gamer shited on AMD when they had competative product. As a result AMD got less money to spend on R&D and their product became less competative on certainsegment.
But now Gamers are wanting competative product from from AMD!!! Where is the R&D money for that??

efikkan, post: 4051661, member: 150226"
I believe AMD's situation in graphics is their own fault.
ATI managed to focus development and compete with most of Nvidia's lineup despite very limited resources. After AMD took over, they shifted too much resources around, focused too much on APUs and custom chips, plus dead end projects like ARM Opterons, project "skybridge" and K12. Then decided to "milk" GCN for far too long.
You guys forgetting that, it was AMD's Semi-custom division that keepet AMD alive not CPU or GPU division. If AMD didn't buy ATI back then, we would still running(and still running) cheese Intel cpu with 2-4 Cores.
Posted on Reply
#94
unikin
IceShroom, post: 4051699, member: 175457"
It is the other way around. Gamer shited on AMD when they had competative product. As a result AMD got less money to spend on R&D and their product became less competative on certainsegment.
But now Gamers are wanting competative product from from AMD!!! Where is the R&D money for that??
AMD had shitty marketing retail GPU strategy since they bought ATI. If you don't advertise your product correctly, you won't sell it, period. We're 0.1 % of population following IT development, read reviews, compare price/performance, performance per watt ratio etc. 99.9 % of potential consumers does not. That's why marketing makes or breaks the product, no matter how good it is.
Posted on Reply
#95
IceShroom
unikin, post: 4051706, member: 182654"
AMD had shitty marketing retail GPU strategy since they bought ATI. If you don't advertise your product correctly, you won't sell it, period. We're 0.1 % of population following IT development, read reviews, compare price/performance, performance per watt ratio etc. 99.9 % of potential consumers does not. That's why marketing makes or breaks the product, no matter how good it is.
AMD's marketing division is not the brightest out there, I can agree with that.
But can't say AMD shited on "Gamers", as they had/has competative product but couldn't market it properly.
And I am still saying, "Gamers" shited AMD not the other way around.
Posted on Reply
#96
londiste
efikkan, post: 4051516, member: 150226"
The fact remains that AMD have plenty of computational performance, while Nvidia manages to squeeze more gaming performance out of less theoretical performance, because AMD chose to focus on "brute force" performance rather than efficiency.
Something that is overlooked in recent few generations - Nvidia's GPU Boost. TFLOPS and other stats are based off base and boost clocks. While AMD GPUs still run generally at boost-ish clocks as GPUs have been doing for a while, Nvidia's GPUs are running considerably above boost clock. Radeon VII is kind of following the same idea but not to the same extent.

Take Radeon VII and RTX2080, for example:
- Radeon VII is specced to 1400/1750MHz and 10.7/13.4 TFLOPS at these clocks. In games it opportunistically runs a little above boost, roughly 1775MHz and 13.6 TFLOPS. 1-2% above spec boost.
- RTX2080 is specced to 1515/1710MHz and 8.9/10.1 TFLOPS at these clock. In games it opportunistically runs in the range of 1920MHz, if not higher. This is 11.3 TFLOPS. 12% above spec boost.

There is still a difference but smaller than you would expect from specs alone.

dicktracy, post: 4051540, member: 173119"
Looks like price fixing to me. AMD is charging their GPUs according to Nvidia’s current pricing scheme. Investigate nvidia and AMD plz k thz bye.
This would not be the first time. They were accused of price fixing in 2008, with actual evidence in form of emails. It was settled out of court :)
Posted on Reply
#97
xkm1948
I can think of a few folks here that may buy Navi, they are always loyal AMD supporters and are always the first to jump up defending AMD for any critism. But again they may keep using their Nvidia card. :)
Posted on Reply
#98
erocker
*
Somebody at Sapphire really likes that gold pitted cooler design.... Reminds me of a car's exhaust shield or something like that.
Posted on Reply
#99
Minus Infinity
Not at all interested, I'll wait for Navi+ or Ampere. Vega II was huge let down to suck down that much power from 7nm and Navi is still GCN so don't expect much improvement. Navi+ is the clean sheet tech we've been waiting for a long time so now another 18 months at least. More likely Ampere will ship before that.
Posted on Reply
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