Monday, June 17th 2019

Intel Turns to Samsung in Order to Resolve CPU Shortage on the 14 nm Process

Intel has seemingly partnered with Samsung, one of the largest manufacturers of Integrated Circuits, in order to help reduce the CPU shortage currently affecting the PC market. It is the first time ever that Intel turned to Samsung for it's CPU manufacturing given that, historically, Intel's Client Computing Group (CCG) has always relied on Intel's internal fab to manufacture all of its components. But as resources in those fabs became constrained, Intel CCG started looking at other resources, such as TSMC, to manufacture the chipsets used in Intel-based motherboards.

In a report prepared by Sedialy, a South Korean news media, Intel turned to Samsung specifically to meet demand on its 14 nm products. This unexpected move came after negotiations which, if you believe the rumors before the news, were in progress for quite some time already. Samsung has formally agreed to manufacture Intel's CPUs of the microarchitecture code-named 'Rocket Lake', which will serve as processors for mini PCs, planned to be released in 2021.
According to the source, Samsung will begin mass production of 14 nm Intel CPUs in the fourth quarter of 2020, which means that Intel still will not feel any relief from the off-loaded manufacturing, and will have to put up with it for a while longer. Also, according to the source, Intel's 14 nm manufacturing shortage has been worse than reported, which this partnership with Samsung further hints towards.

Although Intel laid out plans to build a new factory, it will take years to finish it given it is a huge investment which pays off in the long run. There are possibly many reasons why Intel went with Samsung for its CPU manufacturing, with number one being the trade war between China and the US. While TSMC is available, it is also connected with AMD as it manufactures most of its silicon products. Another thing to consider is that Samsung is very much looking forward to accommodating Intel's CPU manufacturing, as its own thriving memory business is tied closely to Intel CPUs as far as the overall market is concerned. Source: Sedaily
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35 Comments on Intel Turns to Samsung in Order to Resolve CPU Shortage on the 14 nm Process

#2
Bones
Hmmmm......

Making me think Samsung could, one day be tempted into thinking about sinking it's teeth into Intel's neck.
You never know.
Although right now that's really a far-fetched thought it's still a possibility as time passes and things change - And you'd better believe Samsung is one that could do it IF they ever wanted to.
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#3
Tomgang


Just confirms the released slides leaked in april/may 2019. That Intels 10 NM fabrik will only be in small amounts of pieces available for ultra low power laptops and next year maybe for servers. 10 NM might not even come for desktop as intels 10 NM fabrication has had problems along the way and rumors even say that intel drops 10 NM for desktop and goes directly to 7 NM. But that means it will take longer to get dekstop CPU´s with lower than 14 NM. Slides leaked said 14 NM for all of 2020 and maybe even a long time in to 2021. So intels will still need a lot of 14 NM die´s the next year or two and with the Shortage of 14 NM, this comes as NO BIG SURPRISE they are forced to call reinforcements in form of Samsung this time around.

And if its true intel only will release 14 NM desktop CPU´s again for the rest of 2019 and 2020 maybe even into 2021. Yeah my money will go to team red and Ryzen 3000 that really looks like a pretty desent CPU for what i have seen so far this time as i am tired of Intels bullshit with 14 NM release after 14 NM release + with 14 NM the next CPU line up will properly only have a pretty low IPC gain over 9000 series cpu´s.
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#4
jabbadap
Uhm what? Samsung's 14nm is inferior to intel's 14nm in every specifications. Does this mean Intel will outsource some of 14nm products on comparable Samsung node or what?
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#5
oxidized
jabbadap, post: 4066259, member: 148195"
Uhm what? Samsung's 14nm is inferior to intel's 14nm in every specifications. Does this mean Intel will outsource some of 14nm products on comparable Samsung node or what?
Whatever, 14nm is at its dawn, no big deal honestly.
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#6
Tomgang
oxidized, post: 4066263, member: 170038"
Whatever, 14nm is at its dawn, no big deal honestly.
Agreed to thant. Intels 14 nm came out in 2014/2015, so i will say its way past last expiry date. And now they want to run 14 nm for two more years.

thats why i am getting amd this round. Intel has really been a down the drain exsperience the last two or three years now.
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#7
jabbadap
oxidized, post: 4066263, member: 170038"
Whatever, 14nm is at its dawn, no big deal honestly.
Well I tried to say one just can't make a 14nm intel product on 14nm Samsung process. Samsung's 10nm is quite close in density so maybe they could use that for some of 14nm Intel cpus.
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#8
oxidized
Tomgang, post: 4066275, member: 154607"
Agreed to thant. Intels 14 nm came out in 2014/2015, so i will say its way past last expiry date. And now they want to run 14 nm for two more years.

thats why i am getting amd this round. Intel has really been a down the drain exsperience the last two or three years now.
I think we'll have 10 or 7nm intel CPUs by the end of next year.

jabbadap, post: 4066277, member: 148195"
Well I tried to say one just can't make a 14nm intel product on 14nm Samsung process. Samsung's 10nm is quite close in density so maybe they could use that for some of 14nm Intel cpus.
Who knows, they might license their 14nm to samsung so that they can help them, i think what intel needs is just more fabs.
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#9
Tomgang
oxidized, post: 4066278, member: 170038"
I think we'll have 10 or 7nm intel CPUs by the end of next year.



Who knows, they might license their 14nm to samsung so that they can help them, i think what intel needs is just more fabs.
We might have that. But that dosent change that i whant a new pc before intel get there ass together and release some thing new, in sted of just keep making soap out of old meat.
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#10
HD64G
So, Raja's visit at Samsung a few months ago was indeed on purpose to build agreements for chip manufacturing for Intel by Samsung... And so, the big blue conceded and depends on another's fabs to allow them to stay relevant. Because imho, at least until 2021, Samsung will make in their node even the 7nm CPUs and GPUs for Intel. Shareholders of Intel will sell at once when the news go around. Big failure for the Intel fabs since 2016.
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#11
oxidized
Tomgang, post: 4066280, member: 154607"
We might have that. But that dosent change that i whant a new pc before intel get there ass together and release some thing new, in sted of just keep making soap out of old meat.
I feel you, i'm still with a 2600K, and i might need to pull the trigger before intel launches their new stuff, the choice would be Ryzen 3000, probably the 3800X, don't need any more cores than that, but i surely need higher frequency.
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#12
Tomgang
oxidized, post: 4066284, member: 170038"
I feel you, i'm still with a 2600K, and i might need to pull the trigger before intel launches their new stuff, the choice would be Ryzen 3000, probably the 3800X, don't need any more cores than that, but i surely need higher frequency.
Yeah X58 and my i7 980x has been great, but the cores ipc is just to low now for gaming even overclock to 4.4 ghz and the latest and most intense games like metro exodus and far cry new dawn have to many lag spikes now and fps deeps below 60 fps a bit to often now for even my taste. I cant and will not wait a year more for that matter deffently not 2 years for intel to get lower nm die's to the desktop. So just like you, i need some thing with better ipc/clock for clock performance than my current setup can give me.

Ryzen 3000 looks really good for what i have seen so far. But i will go all way on ryzen, so i am planning getting a ryzen 9 3950X.
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#13
ChrisGar
Remember that IBM plans to build their 7nm Processors at Samsung. Interesting times.
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#14
ZeppMan217
Wasn't Intel's Israeli plant development postponed a couple of days ago?
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#15
Mephis
Are Intel's yeilds so bad, that they need more capacity than they have or are they really selling that many chips? I would have figured that AMD's rebound would lessen the demand for Intel chips, I guess not.
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#16
king of swag187
jabbadap, post: 4066259, member: 148195"
Uhm what? Samsung's 14nm is inferior to intel's 14nm in every specifications. Does this mean Intel will outsource some of 14nm products on comparable Samsung node or what?
Likely outsourcing chipsets to test the waters, then probably ULV or similar parts, but who knows
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#17
Caqde
Mephis, post: 4066317, member: 186806"
Are Intel's yeilds so bad, that they need more capacity than they have or are they really selling that many chips? I would have figured that AMD's rebound would lessen the demand for Intel chips, I guess not.
Well the die size for skylake was about ~123mm which would allow for a maximum of about 468 chips on a 300mm wafer. Kabylake was ~126mm in size yielding a maximum of the same maximum of 468 chips on a 300mm wafer. The 6 core Coffee lake is about ~150mm yielding about 380 chips per 300mm wafer about 81% of the chips possible vs skylake and kabylake. And finally 8 core Coffee lake is ~174mm yielding 324 chips per 300mm wafer about 69% of skylake and kabylake.

Now keep in mind I did not include any loss from defective chips so the precise yields will likely be lower than what I stated and even then some of the defective dies likely go to lower cored variants. But this is a big part of why Intel is having issues AMD being competitive drove them to bring higher core chips to the market and as such cut down their chip yields due to the size of those chips. Because Intel's 10nm is so far behind they were unable to take advantage of a die shrink to increase yields so they are now in the position they are currently in until they can get another factory built or a decently working 10nm process that can produce high performance chips.

So basically the yearly increase in demand from consumers/businesses + lower yields per wafer = shortages for Intel.
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#18
TheLostSwede
Let's not forget that Intel has also set aside quite a bit of production capacity for the modem chips they make for Apple.
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#19
Midland Dog
dont buy rocket lake then, it will have a worse clock to voltage curve than skylake i bet
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#20
Steevo
Good for Intel, moving forward with the future, they are sucking at node advancement, and if they can leverage Samsung for chips and stay competitive good on them.
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#21
londiste
TheLostSwede, post: 4066392, member: 3382"
Let's not forget that Intel has also set aside quite a bit of production capacity for the modem chips they make for Apple.
Didn't that deal fall through?

I suppose the good question here is what is happening in Intel's own fabs? They seem to have less and less capacity. Are they going to make a heavy move towards 10nm/7nm?

Samsung deal is a logical step. Whether the current 12nm deal works out or not (these could be chipsets or something, not necessarily CPUs) they need to get well acquainted with the process and tools as Intel has said their GPUs will be manufactured by Samsung. On the 7nm EUV, but it is smaller jump from Samsung's 14nm to 7nm EUV in terms of tools and process than from Intel's own.
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#22
TheLostSwede
londiste, post: 4066405, member: 169790"
Didn't that deal fall through?

I suppose the good question here is what is happening in Intel's own fabs? They seem to have less and less capacity. Are they going to make a heavy move towards 10nm/7nm?

Samsung deal is a logical step. Whether the current 12nm deal works out or not (these could be chipsets or something, not necessarily CPUs) they need to get well acquainted with the process and tools as Intel has said their GPUs will be manufactured by Samsung. On the 7nm EUV, but it is smaller jump from Samsung's 14nm to 7nm EUV in terms of tools and process than from Intel's own.
That was for 5G modems, they're still making Apple's 4G modems and are contractually obliged to do so until Apple has had their fill...

In addition to that, they also make FPGA parts now, which surely must take up some production capacity as well.

Intel has already said that they're working on a second 10nm manufacturing process that will somehow be different to the first one that didn't work out and I'm guessing this will be used for their first "proper" 10nm parts.
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#23
Vayra86
Bones, post: 4066248, member: 144474"
Hmmmm......

Making me think Samsung could, one day be tempted into thinking about sinking it's teeth into Intel's neck.
You never know.
Although right now that's really a far-fetched thought it's still a possibility as time passes and things change - And you'd better believe Samsung is one that could do it IF they ever wanted to.
Remember how we speculated at some point in the past about AMD's graphics going to Samsung... ;)
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#24
kings
Q4 2020 still with CPUs at 14nm? Oh boy, let's hope it's just a few low-end versions...

Incredible as the lack of strong competition for nearly a decade has made Intel so careless.
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#25
Imsochobo
jabbadap, post: 4066277, member: 148195"
Well I tried to say one just can't make a 14nm intel product on 14nm Samsung process. Samsung's 10nm is quite close in density so maybe they could use that for some of 14nm Intel cpus.
I think 14NM for FPGA, Chipsets and other non performance chips where intel's 14nm ++++++++++++++ is required.
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