Monday, August 12th 2019

Intel "Tiger Lake" Supports PCIe Gen 4 and Features Xe Graphics, Phantom Canyon NUC Detailed

Intel is working on its next generation gaming-grade NUC, codenamed "Phantom Canyon." When it comes out some time in 2020-21, it will feature Intel's 10 nm+ "Tiger Lake" SoC. Intel detailed this and more in a leaked presentation to industry partners. It describes the launch of of the company's "Ghost Canyon" NUC in Fall 2019 to succeed the current "Hades Canyon" gaming NUC. This box features a Core i9-9980HK processor and discrete graphics options. It will be succeeded in 2020-21 (late 2020 or sometime 2021), by the "Phantom Canyon" NUC that's in development.

The "Phantom Canyon" NUC is powered by a 28 W 10 nm+ "Tiger Lake-U" SoC that features PCI-Express gen 4. The package also implements Intel's "Gen 12" graphics processor that's derived from the Xe architecture it's currently working on, according to Chinese publication PTTWeb. The NUC will also feature discrete graphics options in the price-range of the current GTX 1660 Ti and RTX 2060 ($299 to $349). In related news, we see subtle hints that Intel will give its chipset bus a major update in future generations of its desktop and mobile platforms. Apparently, future platforms could feature DMI spread over 8 lanes as opposed to 4 on current platforms, besides the update to PCIe gen 4. This quadrupling in bandwidth compared to DMI 3.0 (PCIe 3.0 x4) is necessitated by the growth in bandwidth-hungry devices such as NVMe SSDs, external Thunderbolt 3 graphics cards, USB 3.2 flash drives, etc.
Sources: ChipHell, FanlessTech, PTTWeb
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22 Comments on Intel "Tiger Lake" Supports PCIe Gen 4 and Features Xe Graphics, Phantom Canyon NUC Detailed

#1
R0H1T
ICL also feature PCIe 4.0 does it not(?) also another lake :slap:
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#2
TheLostSwede
Waiting for the people claiming Intel would go straight to PCIe 5.0 to comment...
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#4
Crackong
I remembered someone said PCI-E 4.0 has no real usage....who is that?
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#5
Dammeron
Crackong, post: 4096754, member: 185495"
I remembered someone said PCI-E 4.0 has no real usage....who is that?
For a normal everyday user - currently there are no advantages over PCIe 3.0 (no GPUs need full 16x bandwidth and new PCIe 4.0 nVME disks give You no real performance boost over the earlier products).

For industrial, server etc. purposes - the increased bandwidth is helpful.
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#6
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
TheLostSwede, post: 4096687, member: 3382"
Waiting for the people claiming Intel would go straight to PCIe 5.0 to comment...
This is what I call damage control.
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#7
fynxer
Intel's solution to the "Holy Grail" of real true SLI/CrossFire is CLX (if it really works) is based on PCIe 5.0 but that will premier in Server 2021/22, workstation and desktop 2022/23.

What they are talking about here is mobile platform and PCIe 4.0 will probably be the go to bus for mobile devices for a little while.

Although PCIe 5.0 has much better power optimizations so i do not believe they will stay on PCIe 4.0 very long.
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#9
fynxer
Dammeron, post: 4096786, member: 150201"
For a normal everyday user - currently there are no advantages over PCIe 3.0 (no GPUs need full 16x bandwidth and new PCIe 4.0 nVME disks give You no real performance boost over the earlier products).

For industrial, server etc. purposes - the increased bandwidth is helpful.
PCIe 4.0 saves a lot of power in mobile platform and PCIe 5.0 even more so, faster computer and longer battery life.

Regarding SSD that will change fast, new controllers releasing late 2020 or early 2021 doing up to 8GB/sek and with far more IOPS also nvme 1.4 have some very interesting additions.

Same mambo jambo every time something new is introduced, sure it take a little while before the speed of new standards can be fully realized BUT that is nothing new.
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#10
HwGeek
TheGuruStud, post: 4096821, member: 42692"
More 1ghz 10nm, how cute.
Don't forget the 700Mhz models like back in 2000 :).
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#11
bug
TheLostSwede, post: 4096687, member: 3382"
Waiting for the people claiming Intel would go straight to PCIe 5.0 to comment...
I was one of them, but I only said Intel may go straight for 5.0. If I wanted to be mean, I would say twice the number of PCIe 4.0 lanes is just as good as the same number of PCIe 5.0 lanes. But I'm not :D

From this article, I understand two things:
1. Apparently you can (will be able to?) do PCIe 4.0 with out a fan on the southbridge.
2. The discrete GPU options do not include Xe.
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#12
voltage
TheLostSwede, post: 4096687, member: 3382"
Waiting for the people claiming Intel would go straight to PCIe 5.0 to comment...
you really think those people made that up? the press reported that as fact on many sites. that said, they should go straight to 5.0 and get on with DDR5 support already. the industry is too SLOW to release new tech.
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#13
TheLostSwede
I know they didn't make it up, but they bought some vague news post, hook, line and sinker and were calling me names for saying it won't happen...
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#14
goodeedidid
The way I see it, maybe in 10 years everything like RAM, GPU, and CPU will be integrated in the motherboard, which will be really cool because we wouldn't have to bother with buying parts and assembly. Also probably everything will be super mobile, no more chunky and hideous PC cases.
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#15
Reaperxvii
goodeedidid, post: 4097006, member: 165582"
The way I see it, maybe in 10 years everything like RAM, GPU, and CPU will be integrated in the motherboard, which will be really cool because we wouldn't have to bother with buying parts and assembly. Also probably everything will be super mobile, no more chunky and hideous PC cases.
That would be a terrible idea! It would remove any kind of upgrade ability it a system. Want to buy a nice board and CPU but dont have the money for top tier gpu? Buy a cheap one and upgrade later. With your idea youd have to buy all the top tier stuff and be limited to whatever components they add to a system. Look at how much crap pre built systems get, and rightfully so.
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#16
goodeedidid
Reaperxvii, post: 4097024, member: 189569"
That would be a terrible idea! It would remove any kind of upgrade ability it a system. Want to buy a nice board and CPU but dont have the money for top tier gpu? Buy a cheap one and upgrade later. With your idea youd have to buy all the top tier stuff and be limited to whatever components they add to a system. Look at how much crap pre built systems get, and rightfully so.
Right now I agree of course, but in near future I think things would go to that direction. Integration for me is good, everything can be centralized compact with a small footprint and at the same time very very powerful. This is where things are going. Probably in 20 years people would have forgotten about geeky stuff like buying CPUs and GPUs, that stuff will be ancient!
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#17
lukedriftwood
Phantom Canyon will be the successor to Hades Canyon. Not Ghost Canyon.

Ghost Canyon and Quartz Canyon are new desktop style form factor and internal PSU. Phantom Canyon will remain flat with external PSU.

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#18
cyrand
I thought there was a few references to Tiger Lake being PCIe Gen 4 already and Sapphire Rapids coming after Tiger Lake being PCIe Gen 5. Never thought Intel would skip Gen 4 but rather it would only be only for one generation before moving to Gen 5 (assuming they don't run into issues like in the past and force to put refreshes in between Tiger Lake and Sapphire Rapids like the many many many they did (and still doing) between skylake and ice lake because of the 10nm issues.
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#19
prtskg
bug, post: 4096873, member: 157434"
1. Apparently you can (will be able to?) do PCIe 4.0 with out a fan on the southbridge.
I thought x570's chipset uses a lot of power as AMD is using a single chipset at 14 and 12nm for AM4, threadripper and server platform, disabling and enabling few things here and there according to their need.
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#20
Prima.Vera
Dammeron, post: 4096786, member: 150201"
For a normal everyday user - currently there are no advantages over PCIe 3.0 (no GPUs need full 16x bandwidth and new PCIe 4.0 nVME disks give You no real performance boost over the earlier products).
Yeah...no. I prefer having only nVME disk in my station (4+) without the ancient SATA crap. Together with x2 Video Cards, PCIe Sound Card, PCIe 4K TV tunner with live capture and streaming, x4 Thunderbolt 3.0 with x8 USB 3.2 or 4.0 ports over PCIe; etc.

Still think PCIe 3.0 is enough? ;)
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#21
Dammeron
Prima.Vera, post: 4097250, member: 98685"
Yeah...no. I prefer having only nVME disk in my station (4+) without the ancient SATA crap. Together with x2 Video Cards, PCIe Sound Card, PCIe 4K TV tunner with live capture and streaming, x4 Thunderbolt 3.0 with x8 USB 3.2 or 4.0 ports over PCIe; etc.

Still think PCIe 3.0 is enough? ;)
Yes. You know why? Cause You're an exception. 99% users have 1 GPU + 1 nVME, usually not even a separate sound card. And a few years' old mobo with PCIe 3.0 is more than enough for a typical machine with 1 GPU, 1 NVMe, 1 additional card and 1-2 SATA drives.

You quoted my post starting with "For a normal everyday user..." - that says it all.
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#22
Octopuss
I give up on Intel's stupid product naming. They couldn't have thought of better way of making it as incomprehensible as possible.
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