Tuesday, December 3rd 2019

AMD X570-successor to be Third-Party Sourced

AMD X570 chipset is the industry's first PC platform core-logic to support PCI-Express gen 4.0, but has proven to be expensive and hot. Its 600-series chipset successor will be third-party sourced much like its 400-series predecessor, according to a MyDrivers report citing sources in the motherboard industry. AMD is reportedly sourcing its 500-series mid-range chipset, the B550, from ASMedia. The B550 uses PCI-Express 3.0 x4 as its chipset bus, and puts out eight PCIe gen 3.0 downstream general purpose lanes, however, B550 motherboards could still feature PCI-Express 4.0 x16 slots from the socket AM4 SoC (provided a 3rd gen Ryzen processor is installed), and at least one of the M.2 NVMe slots on B550 motherboards could have PCI-Express 4.0 x4, since they're wired to the SoC instead of the chipset.

The MyDrivers report predicts that the successor to X570, the supposed "X670," could be sourced from a third-party firm, much like the B550, and implement PCI-Express gen 4.0, not just as chipset-bus, but also putting out PCI-Express gen 4.0 general purpose lanes. A possible design goal of the X670 could be to implement PCIe gen 4.0 switching fabric without running too hot, resulting in a cooler chipset than can make do with fanless cooling solutions, much like the X470. AMD will continue to make "chipsets" in the form of I/O controller dies for use in its MCM processors, although the relatively low-margin motherboard chipset business could be axed.
Source: MyDrivers
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28 Comments on AMD X570-successor to be Third-Party Sourced

#1
jeremyshaw
If the “B550” is just PCIe 3.0, why is it taking so long to arrive?
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#2
prnsforum
jeremyshaw
If the “B550” is just PCIe 3.0, why is it taking so long to arrive?
Its business, like other company like intel and nvidia high end first and lower later
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#3
Tomorrow
jeremyshaw
If the “B550” is just PCIe 3.0, why is it taking so long to arrive?
Ask ASMedia why it's taking so long. Im glad AMD decided to produce X570 themselves. Otherwise we would not have PCI-E 4.0 for years.
As for the chipset cooling i feel like most manufacturers have gone overboard with their chipset fans on X570. Personally i see no reason for active cooling on X570 and tests by Der8auer for example have shown as much.

On my X570 Aorus Master i replaced the stock thermal pad with Kryonaout and unplugged the chipset fan cable. Never have i seen temps exceeding 45c.
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#4
dj-electric
X470 should have just been re-used, with one main PCIE 4.0 X16 slot and one PCIE 4.0 M.2 X4 slot routed from CPU as a feature across the chipsetboards.
Call it B550, call it whatever. It would have been great to have.
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#5
silentbogo
jeremyshaw
If the “B550” is just PCIe 3.0, why is it taking so long to arrive?
Just a speculation, but maybe the issue lies with AsMedia's 32nm manufacturing capabilities.

But realistically, there's no need for B550. In order to make it easier for OEMs and consumers, AMD pushed for "ryzen 3000 - ready" instead. Most of the stuff on shelves today is Zen2-compatible(B350/450, x370/470). AsRock even pushed as far as updating their A320 lineup and DeskMini A300 (which recently gave me a headache due to cut-down Bristol Ridge support).
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#6
TheLostSwede
silentbogo
Just a speculation, but maybe the issue lies with AsMedia's 32nm manufacturing capabilities.

But realistically, there's no need for B550. In order to make it easier for OEMs and consumers, AMD pushed for "ryzen 3000 - ready" instead. Most of the stuff on shelves today is Zen2-compatible(B350/450, x370/470). AsRock even pushed as far as updating their A320 lineup and DeskMini A300 (which recently gave me a headache due to cut-down Bristol Ridge support).
ASMedia is a fabless company, but ok...
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#7
cucker tarlson
x570 is a fail from a price to value standpoint.
boards are super expensive,and only thing they offer is pci-e 4.0,which in turn also has a huge markup for the nvme drives and provides zero returns except for copying files between two such drives.

x470 was cheaper,if they upgraded it for the ability to run two 3.0 nvme drives at the same price point it'd be a hit.
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#8
IceShroom
I highly doubt that AMD will outsource their flagship chipset. And also AMD still has to fulfil WSA with GoFlo.
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#9
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
IceShroom
I highly doubt that AMD will outsource their flagship chipset. And also AMD still has to fulfil WSA with GoFlo.
WSA will be taken care of by growth in demand for Ryzen and EPYC (their I/O controller dies).

dj-electric
X470 should have just been re-used, with one main PCIE 4.0 X16 slot and one PCIE 4.0 M.2 X4 slot routed from CPU as a feature across the chipsetboards.
Call it B550, call it whatever. It would have been great to have.
The B550A chipset in some OEM desktops is essentially that (a rebranded B450). Rebranding Promontory-LP as B550 could have presented a PR problem (the SoC puts out gen 4.0 lanes, but the chipset is limited to gen 2). So they at least want gen 3 before they could roll out B550. Until then push 400-series chipsets.
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#10
R0H1T
Wouldn't the X570 successor be x6xx or something like that?
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#11
InVasMani
Seems kind of understandable while x570 isn't a flop it's not what people would deem as a ideal chipset at this point in time in the tech industry to run as hot as it does with cooling fan. It's not as huge a deal as it's made out to be by many, but it's still something people can, will, and do quip about and the yeah margins are low to begin with it's a bit of a waste of resources. On the other hand I see this also as AMD's way of signaling that they intend to integrate more chipset features to the CPU SoC itself negating the need for chipset eventually or reducing the dependence on it. I think eventually at least with APU's they might be able to integrate everything directly and still be able to cool it sufficiently. The advantage of that is pretty obvious as well obviously it's going to be more power efficient and lower latency with the shorter more direct traces right on the CPU, but not just that if they they can integrate everything directly and no longer need a bridge chipset on the motherboard itself it free's it up so they could in place of it.

I think x570 was ambitious, but not necessarily a ideal chipset at this point in time in the tech industry given how hot it runs requiring a cooling fan. It's not a huge deal, but just enough for people to quip about and if margins are already low to begin with it makes sense to kind of axe the custom motherboard chipset's. To me it seems like AMD's way of signaling they intend to integrate more chipset features directly to the CPU SoC itself which makes more sense for efficiency and latency. I think eventually at least with APU's they might be able to integrate everything directly and still be able to cool it sufficiently. Integrating everything to the CPU SoC itself also free's up the motherboard chipset area to both shrink down the board size for SFF PC cases and more enthusiast level ones with dual sockets perhaps with twin crossfire APU's or having a CPU SoC that's heavily multi-core and another CPU SoC on another socket that's more geared for single thread high performance high frequency scaling giving the best of both. It probably wouldn't cost a "abundance" more for a dual socket board if you axe out the motherboard chipset itself. At that point the difference might be negligible.

AMD could even use the vacant motherboard chipset space to place a I/O die to control discrete AMD Crossfire MCU-GPU's and tweak the I/O die itself further when they shrink it to 7nm. It's hard to say what AMD will do. Another thing I had thought of recently is AMD could utilize that extra die chip space on certain CPU SoC's and integrate a PCIe express microSD slot on it and just have a open slot in the heatspread to insert the microSD into it prior to installation though I'm not sure how worthwhile it would be though see it as a interesting option none the less.

I really feel AMD will continue to integrate more features to the CPU SoC itself over time freeing up the need for a motherboard chipset entirely or requiring a smaller more efficient one that occupies less motherboard space to further shrink the PCB size down.
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#12
Deathy
implement PCI-Express gen 4.0, not just as chipset-bus, but also putting out PCI-Express gen 4.0 general purpose lanes
Considering this is how it is right now with X570, it would be weird if they went a step back, right? AMD went straight from PCIe 2.0 lanes downstream to 4.0 downstream with their chipsets. A B550 which isn't stingy with PCIe lanes and has 3.0 ones downstream was all I wanted. Ended up with an open box X570 was wasn't too expensive. B450 is really hindered in the age of NVME storage and 10G ethernet.
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#13
Vayra86
cucker tarlson
x570 is a fail from a price to value standpoint.
boards are super expensive,and only thing they offer is pci-e 4.0,which in turn also has a huge markup for the nvme drives and provides zero returns except for copying files between two such drives.

x470 was cheaper,if they upgraded it for the ability to run two 3.0 nvme drives at the same price point it'd be a hit.
Yeah its quite the irony to see nearly HEDT level pricing on those boards while the whole point for Ryzen is to bring HEDT-like performance to the mainstream... sans quad channel that is. Especially because there is absolutely no need to have gone extreme like this. In fact I (too) feel AMD is missing a mainstream performance bang/buck chipset. What we have now is bog standard or totally overboard (pun intended). They're now trying to cover that with B450, but it feels a bit meh if you want to be serious, while the jump to x570 is a big one.

Another irony is that now that AMD actually has good CPU progress to offer, the whole idea of keeping old boards and upgrade from there is starting to turn sour quickly. There's a pretty sudden progress in standards and features on these boards and we've already had reports of the necessity to upgrade a board regardless.

Oh well, can't have it all I guess.
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#14
Tomorrow
Vayra86
Yeah its quite the irony to see nearly HEDT level pricing on those boards while the whole point for Ryzen is to bring HEDT-like performance to the mainstream... Especially because there is absolutely no need to have gone extreme like this. In fact I feel AMD is missing a mainstream performance bang/buck chipset. What we have now is bog standard or totally overboard (pun intended).

Another irony is that now that AMD actually has good CPU progress to offer, the whole idea of keeping old boards and upgrade from there is starting to turn sour quickly. There's a pretty sudden progress in standards and features on these boards and we've already had reports of the necessity to upgrade a board regardless.

Oh well, can't have it all I guess.
Well since you can use Ryzen on a A320, B350, X370, B450 and X470 board then you can still have HEDT like performance in mainstream. So i fail to see how AMD does not have mainstream performance bang/buck chipset. That's what B450 is for. For around $100 MSI's B450 Mortar or Tomahawk MAX boards come with out of the box support for Ryzen 3000 and several good features + good VRM's.

And if you really want fast storage then X570 exists. For example ASUS TUF X570 costs around 200$ and is a decent X570 board according to many.
I have no problem with X570 pricing. People sometimes act like X570 starts at $500 or something.
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#15
prtskg
jeremyshaw
If the “B550” is just PCIe 3.0, why is it taking so long to arrive?
ASMedia was supposed to provide PCIe4.0. Most probably they fucked up. I think initial launch time was Q4, this quarter.
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#16
Vayra86
Tomorrow
Well since you can use Ryzen on a A320, B350, X370, B450 and X470 board then you can still have HEDT like performance in mainstream. So i fail to see how AMD does not have mainstream performance bang/buck chipset. That's what B450 is for. For around $100 MSI's B450 Mortar or Tomahawk MAX boards come with out of the box support for Ryzen 3000 and several good features + good VRM's.

And if you really want fast storage then X570 exists. For example ASUS TUF X570 costs around 200$ and is a decent X570 board according to many.
I have no problem with X570 pricing. People sometimes act like X570 starts at $500 or something.
What's missing is Intel's feature complete Z slot at 100-150 eur, really. Only a few B450's cover that, somewhat.

Its not a big miss, but could do with some offerings.
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#17
kapone32
cucker tarlson
x570 is a fail from a price to value standpoint.
boards are super expensive,and only thing they offer is pci-e 4.0,which in turn also has a huge markup for the nvme drives and provides zero returns except for copying files between two such drives.

x470 was cheaper,if they upgraded it for the ability to run two 3.0 nvme drives at the same price point it'd be a hit.
There was 1 X470 board that could do that. To be honest with you that is why I stuck with X399 or I should build and X399 build instead of X570. There are decently priced boards out there for X570. I think I will wait for the B550 boards to be released before I jump into AM4 again. By that time the 3600 should be under $200 Canadian.
Posted on Reply
#18
Tomorrow
Vayra86
What's missing is Intel's feature complete Z slot at 100-150 eur, really. Only a few B450's cover that, somewhat.

Its not a big miss, but could do with some offerings.
What features does Intel Z series offer that B450 does not?
I did find this article but it's out of date right now and does not consider Ryzen 3000 improved memory controller: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-x470-intel-z390-showdown,38212.html
Posted on Reply
#19
Vayra86
Tomorrow
What features does Intel Z series offer that B450 does not?
I did find this article but it's out of date right now and does not consider Ryzen 3000 improved memory controller: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-x470-intel-z390-showdown,38212.html
Generally you'd find more USB, more 'gamer' features, maybe more SATA (questionable use) and other storage features, x8/x8 PCIe, Wireless AC, but also generally a more premium feel board. That and the amount of choice available. The article does also point those out.
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#20
cucker tarlson
kapone32
There was 1 X470 board that could do that. To be honest with you that is why I stuck with X399 or I should build and X399 build instead of X570. There are decently priced boards out there for X570. I think I will wait for the B550 boards to be released before I jump into AM4 again. By that time the 3600 should be under $200 Canadian.
they're same price as x299,and while x299 does not offer 4.0 lanes,getting a 9800x with x299 is a better otption than 3800x and x570 to my mind.They're the same price,you get 44 3.0 lanes so you can run whatever gpus,audio devices,drives and expansion cards you desire plus it can take 4 high speed ram stick in quad channel no problem.
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#21
Tomorrow
cucker tarlson
they're same price as x299,and while x299 does not offer 4.0 lanes,getting a 9800x with x299 is a better otption than 3800x and x570 to my mind.They're the same price,you get 44 3.0 lanes so you can run whatever gpus,audio devices,drives and expansion cards you desire plus it can take 4 high speed ram stick in quad channel no problem.
You also get worse IPC and future patches that further lower performance on X299. Sure it's a more mature platform and has quad channel RAM plus more PCI-E lanes but if you really need those things and don't care about IPC then i would say X399 is the way to go not X570.
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#22
cucker tarlson
Tomorrow
You also get worse IPC and future patches that further lower performance on X299. Sure it's a more mature platform and has quad channel RAM plus more PCI-E lanes but if you really need those things and don't care about IPC then i would say X399 is the way to go not X570.
haven't seen any 9800x vs 3800x tests,link them please.
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#23
Jism
The X570 heat is caused by power delivery of the M2 NVME SSD's. Not by the actual chipset itself.
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#24
HisDivineOrder
Jism
The X570 heat is caused by power delivery of the M2 NVME SSD's. Not by the actual chipset itself.
If true, too bad they don't have the fan stay off until it hits a certain load/heat level.
Posted on Reply
#25
Tomorrow
Jism
The X570 heat is caused by power delivery of the M2 NVME SSD's. Not by the actual chipset itself.
Nope sorry but that's not true. The chipset always runs at full speed and has no power saving features or downclocking. That's why it gets slightly warm. But a fan is still massive overkill as the actual power consumpion never exceeds 10 watts.

But assuming you have decent airflow in your case it's not a problem. I can't speak for other manufacturers but on my Gigabyte X570 there is chipset fan control setting in BIOS and you can make your own fan curve.

14:00

16:54


And also this:
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