Wednesday, May 13th 2020

Epic Games Gives Mesmerizing Look at Unreal Engine 5 Running Real Time on PlayStation 5

Epic Games has just released a trailer for version 5 of their industry/acclaimed Unreal Engine. Dubbed "Lumen in the Land of Nanite", the demo they've shared is nothing short of mindblowing when it comes to the amount of environment and character detail. Unreal Engine 5 will feature a new geometry processing engine Epic is calling Nanite, which the company promises will virtually eliminate polygon budgets for developers, with automatic stream and scaling, thus eliminating the need to develop LOD levels for particular assets. Another addition, and an as impressive one, is the Lumen global illumination engine, which will save developers the need to manually bake lightmaps accounting for every little change in a scene's lighting - the global illumination system makes these changes in lighting conditions as seamless and integrated as they can be. This among other features already introduced with version 4.25 such as Niagara VFX and Chaos destruction systems.

Unreal Engine 5 is pegged for an early 2021 release; Epic Games has already announced they will be porting their popular Fortnite videogame into the engine, which makes sense, considering it's being particularly optimized for PC and next-generation consoles. These will become the backbone of games development - and an important source of Epic's Fortnite revenue stream. Take a look at the trailer after the break - and remember this was all running real-time in a PlayStation 5 console.

This demo previews two of the new core technologies that will debut in Unreal Engine 5:
Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry frees artists to create as much geometric detail as the eye can see. Nanite virtualized geometry means that film-quality source art comprising hundreds of millions or billions of polygons can be imported directly into Unreal Engine—anything from ZBrush sculpts to photogrammetry scans to CAD data—and it just works. Nanite geometry is streamed and scaled in real time so there are no more polygon count budgets, polygon memory budgets, or draw count budgets; there is no need to bake details to normal maps or manually author LODs; and there is no loss in quality.
Lumen is a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes. The system renders diffuse interreflection with infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections in huge, detailed environments, at scales ranging from kilometers to millimeters. Artists and designers can create more dynamic scenes using Lumen, for example, changing the sun angle for time of day, turning on a flashlight, or blowing a hole in the ceiling, and indirect lighting will adapt accordingly. Lumen erases the need to wait for lightmap bakes to finish and to author light map UVs—a huge time savings when an artist can move a light inside the Unreal Editor and lighting looks the same as when the game is run on console.
Numerous teams and technologies have come together to enable this leap in quality. To build large scenes with Nanite geometry technology, the team made heavy use of the Quixel Megascans library, which provides film-quality objects up to hundreds of millions of polygons. To support vastly larger and more detailed scenes than previous generations, PlayStation 5 provides a dramatic increase in storage bandwidth.

The demo also showcases existing engine systems such as Chaos physics and destruction, Niagara VFX, convolution reverb, and ambisonics rendering.
Source: Epic Games
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117 Comments on Epic Games Gives Mesmerizing Look at Unreal Engine 5 Running Real Time on PlayStation 5

#101
rvalencia
Decryptor009
This is not system wars Ron, it is just stating that these consoles are up there with PC, the hardware spec is of a much better and much more potent ability than PS4 or XBOX One was in retrospect to the hardware availible on PC.

But because people like to throw around 0.001% usage components as a counter-argument i call them out on how stupid they sound when literally no one buys them.
Ryzen 3000 Threadripper for gaming? get real.

2080Ti.. again a card that is very fast, great card, but for the cost.. no one is really going to buy it save for the top tier elitists who need that performance and have the money to go with it, the every day consumer will be eating up equivelent spec to these consoles.

Now back to you Ron, with your need to insult without using your brain.
You're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.
Decryptor009
Challenge = troll.

So you give up but want to win even though you can't back up anything you say.

So passive - aggressive, you are a troll, off loads responsibility from you so you look better..

Whatever you wish for mate, good luck.
The argument of envy is not a technical argument. Try again.
Posted on Reply
#102
Decryptor009
rvalencia
You're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.


The argument of envy is not a technical argument. Try again.
Yes i am really envious of a £1200 - 3000 CPU...

You really are trying so hard, it's terrible, the price is just insane for any sane minded person who only wants to game. For that reason it is shit, benchmarks are not everything, and most PC enthusiasts and gamers are not going to spend 1 - 3k on a CPU.


I can't help it if you dislike my choice of words, but to me anything is shit if i can't afford it, it may aswell be, it's just an inanimate object..
I would not say that to someone who owns one, that's not how i think, i just use the word shit as a shortened way of explaining why i won't buy it, less for me to say, easier for moe to move on, which is what would be nice, if you would let people move on Ron.

Or do you need to try yet more manipulation?



Posted on Reply
#103
rvalencia
Decryptor009
Yes i am really envious of a £1200 - 3000 CPU...

You really are trying so hard, it's terrible, the price is just insane for any sane minded person who only wants to game. For that reason it is shit, benchmarks are not everything, and most PC enthusiasts and gamers are not going to spend 1 - 3k on a CPU.


I can't help it if you dislike my choice of words, but to me anything is shit if i can't afford it, it may aswell be, it's just an inanimate object..
I would not say that to someone who owns one, that's not how i think, i just use the word shit as a shortened way of explaining why i won't buy it, less for me to say, easier for moe to move on, which is what would be nice, if you would let people move on Ron.

Or do you need to try yet more manipulation?
Again, you're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.



I source my PC components from USA e.g. pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu/#F=79&sort=price&page=1
Posted on Reply
#104
Decryptor009
rvalencia
Again, you're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming and productivity. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.


You just added stuff in there, i said it's shit for gaming, my wallet says so, learn what opinions are jerk.

Great for productivity yes, did anyone mentioned that? no... adding crap as you see fit Ron.

As i stated before though, you are this stupid on Gamespot. I don't have an account on there by the way, i read the place quite a lot.
Posted on Reply
#105
rvalencia
Decryptor009
You just added stuff in there, i said it's shit for gaming, my wallet says so, learn what opinions are jerk.

Great for productivity yes, did anyone mentioned that? no... adding crap as you see fit Ron.

As i stated before though, you are this stupid on Gamespot. I don't have an account on there by the way, i read the place quite a lot.
You're still wrong and stupid. You go back to gamespot. Hypocrite, Hint: I Joined TPU on Nov 4, 2011.
Vayra86
No, you are becoming a troll

Well done, sir. Ticket confirmed.
Decryptor009 has arguments about wealth envy and has departed from the technical discussion.
Posted on Reply
#106
Decryptor009
There is nothing more to say, i added a laughing emoticon to your post because i genuinely laughed at how stupid your post is.

Wearing a time stamp of when you joined as some badge of honor or way of making you seem smarter than you actually are, you have trolled and tried to throw me off the entire time with manipulative tactics, now you are stringing a person that you hope has the same view because his prior opinion was me being a troll, well done on the social manipulation Ron, still no where near intelligent enough to understand the dynamics of the market and what PC gamers are truly going to be buying through statistical means.

This is my last post to you, because you are a lost cause and a very sour person.
Posted on Reply
#107
Shatun_Bear
The PS5 SSD, to use Sweeney's words, is 'god-tier'. Not just the speed but the I/O and how closely integrated it is to the rest of the system (memory, GPU, CPU).

I really hope PC gaming hardware slowly moves closer to the tight integration of currently disparate components into one super efficient package. Brute forcing can only go so far. We'll only likely get this in an APU.
Posted on Reply
#108
londiste
Shatun_Bear
The PS5 SSD, to use Sweeney's words, is 'god-tier'. Not just the speed but the I/O and how closely integrated it is to the rest of the system (memory, GPU, CPU).
I really hope PC gaming hardware slowly moves closer to the tight integration of currently disparate components into one super efficient package. Brute forcing can only go so far. We'll only likely get this in an APU.
Based on what we know so far, the drives are standard NVMe drives connected over PCIe 4.0 x4. This is very standard approach. When it comes to "closely integrated", there are two things:
1. Hardware data compression for increasing bandwidth;
2. Priority queues for moving data (seem to be mainly aimed at getting data latency down for asset streaming to VRAM).
Posted on Reply
#109
Rahnak
@londiste The PS5 internal SSD has a proprietary 12 channel custom controller with a bunch of extra features. It is hooked over PCIe 4.0 x4 but it's far from standard. Expandable storage is for regular m.2 NVMe SSDs though. They will need higher read speeds to compensate though (in other words, expensive as heck)
Posted on Reply
#110
londiste
The fact that expandable storage is regular M.2 NVMe tells you it can't be that special :)
Probably special controller firmware plus the hardware compression hardware. Needs little to no change on the actual drive.
Posted on Reply
#111
Rahnak
londiste
The fact that expandable storage is regular M.2 NVMe tells you it can't be that special :)
Probably special controller firmware plus the hardware compression hardware. Needs little to no change on the actual drive.
The expandable storage is regular m.2 NVMe because the slot is wired to the custom flash controller as well. The SSD was one of the main points of the PS5 technical talk a while back. You can read all about it in Digital Foundry's deep dive as well. No doubt it would've been simpler for Sony to package their tech into a proprietary external SSD, but allowing for off the shelf parts just earns them good points with players.
Posted on Reply
#112
londiste
www.tweaktown.com/news/71340/understanding-the-ps5s-ssd-deep-dive-into-next-gen-storage-tech/index.html
Controller firmware is what seems to be the key here. They also say there will be SSDs on the market that are fast enough that can be put into PS5.
Again, controller firmware plus hardware compression. Pretty standard stuff.

Remember that all the talk and marketing are against PS4's HDD. Compared to that, its leaps and bounds faster. Compared to a fast NVMe drive it's pretty good but not that unusual.
Posted on Reply
#113
Rahnak
londiste
www.tweaktown.com/news/71340/understanding-the-ps5s-ssd-deep-dive-into-next-gen-storage-tech/index.html
Controller firmware is what seems to be the key here. They also say there will be SSDs on the market that are fast enough that can be put into PS5.
Again, controller firmware plus hardware compression. Pretty standard stuff.

Remember that all the talk and marketing are against PS4's HDD. Compared to that, its leaps and bounds faster. Compared to a fast NVMe drive it's pretty good but not that unusual.
Had to look up the definition of standard to make sure it was what I thought it was. :laugh: Yeah, still not a standard SSD. If it were they'd just chuck in an off the shelf unit, call it a day and save some money in the process. It has extra spice (besides the hardware decompression). And again, the only reason you can expand the storage with a regular NVMe drive is because the slot is wired to the internal SSD's custom controller. And again, the read speeds have to be even faster than 5.5GB/s to offset the lack of features (like the NVMe spec standard 2 priority states versus the internal SSD's 6).

Don't get me wrong, my point isn't that this is the fastest thing on the block, we'll probably have SSDs reaching 7GB/s reads later this year or early next year, just that this isn't a standard unit.
Posted on Reply
#114
ARF
PS5's SSD runs at 5.5 GB/s, while Xbox Series X at 2.4 GB/s :eek:

Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5’s SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC’s
wccftech.com/tim-sweeney-explains-exactly-why-the-ps5s-ssd-and-i-o-architecture-is-way-more-efficient-than-pcs/

The latter component is particularly relevant because Microsoft already confirmed plans to bring it to Windows PC, too. According to Microsoft, DirectStorage can significantly reduce CPU overhead for I/O operations (such as those happening in the background to load the next parts of the world) from several cores to a small fraction of a single core. Needless to say, this could severely diminish the PC I/O issues mentioned above by Tim Sweeney.
Posted on Reply
#115
Shatun_Bear
londiste
Based on what we know so far, the drives are standard NVMe drives connected over PCIe 4.0 x4. This is very standard approach. When it comes to "closely integrated", there are two things:
1. Hardware data compression for increasing bandwidth;
2. Priority queues for moving data (seem to be mainly aimed at getting data latency down for asset streaming to VRAM).
No be logical.

The PS5 SSD is far from standard from what I've read. For a start, it has a 12-channel memory controller. Fastest PC NVMe drives have only 4-channels. Secondly, its flash memory is placed physically very close to the processor, allowing for far greater efficiency than is possible from disparate PC components clumsily communicating with each other in your average rig (SSD, memory and CPU/GPU).

Now I'm a PC gamer not a console gamer and always will be, but there doesnt need to be this insecurity when it comes to consoles. They lift the baseline and help move PC gaming forward. A general purpose machine, even if we call it a 'gaming PC', is still general purpose and made up of separate parts. We will never see the type of PS5 efficiency and I/O communication speed between all components on PC as all parts are separate. The console is built for one purpose and all its parts completely integrated.

Brute force approach on PC can alleviate some of these problems.
Posted on Reply
#116
londiste
Most NVMe drives are 8 channels. High end is 12 channels (although these models are probably datacenter stuff and prohibitively expensive, Intel's DC45xx for example).
Sony has confirmed some standard SSDs will be supported and rumors say Sony is working with Samsung on this, so Samsung next-gen SSDs will use the same 12-channel controller.
Physically very close has almost no meaning in this context.

PS5 is a PC in terms of hardware. It being special is basically firmware and mostly software.
All the parts, buses and integration are standard affair that you get in a PC.

Edit:
Consoles used to be special - considerably different types of hardware, processors and accelerators. This was the case in early generations where computers were not standard stuff anyway and most notably 5th and 6th gen where most consoles had custom hardware. Think PS/PS2 and contemporaries that were very different from what PCs were doing at the time (and consoles really did have features and capabilities that PCs could not do for a couple years). 7th gen with PS3 and XBox 360 is interesting middle ground where both went for more standard components but in slightly different directions - XB360's Tri-core Xenon vs PS3's Cell and R520-based Xenon (with some R600 parts) vs G70/G71 hybrid RSX. Last gen and the upcoming one are starkly different from how things used to be done. There are some special ASICs here and there but CPU and GPU along with the system architecture is bog standard x86 PC. 8-core Jaguar and GCN GPU in the previous gen and Zen2 + RDNA2 in the upcoming one. It's x86, uses the standard buses and solutions for almost everything.

The only special integration I can think of in last gen and the next one is memory controller configuration. There are pros and cons to shared memory controllers but the decision to use them is not about being special but for both simplicity and lower cost when CPU and GPU are integrated into the same die or package anyway.
Posted on Reply
#117
Shatun_Bear
londiste
Most NVMe drives are 8 channels. High end is 12 channels (although these models are probably datacenter stuff and prohibitively expensive, Intel's DC45xx for example).
Sony has confirmed some standard SSDs will be supported and rumors say Sony is working with Samsung on this, so Samsung next-gen SSDs will use the same 12-channel controller.
Physically very close has almost no meaning in this context.

PS5 is a PC in terms of hardware. It being special is basically firmware and mostly software.
All the parts, buses and integration are standard affair that you get in a PC.

Edit:
Consoles used to be special - considerably different types of hardware, processors and accelerators. This was the case in early generations where computers were not standard stuff anyway and most notably 5th and 6th gen where most consoles had custom hardware. Think PS/PS2 and contemporaries that were very different from what PCs were doing at the time (and consoles really did have features and capabilities that PCs could not do for a couple years). 7th gen with PS3 and XBox 360 is interesting middle ground where both went for more standard components but in slightly different directions - XB360's Tri-core Xenon vs PS3's Cell and R520-based Xenon (with some R600 parts) vs G70/G71 hybrid RSX. Last gen and the upcoming one are starkly different from how things used to be done. There are some special ASICs here and there but CPU and GPU along with the system architecture is bog standard x86 PC. 8-core Jaguar and GCN GPU in the previous gen and Zen2 + RDNA2 in the upcoming one. It's x86, uses the standard buses and solutions for almost everything.

The only special integration I can think of in last gen and the next one is memory controller configuration. There are pros and cons to shared memory controllers but the decision to use them is not about being special but for both simplicity and lower cost when CPU and GPU are integrated into the same die or package anyway.
I'm sorry but this is pure nonsense. Both consoles are highly custom, especially the PS5 and it's SSD with its integration into the rest of the system, extensive work on I/O to remove all bottlenecks etc. I dont get the insecurity at all, embrace it, our cumbersome and brute force PCs will only copy some of the features in the future but if they don't, its not the end of the world as I use my PC for many other things other than gaming, which there is too much focus on these days.

And most SSDs are not 8-channels. You think most SSDs are NVMe Samsung Evos?
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