Thursday, June 11th 2020

AMD Ryzen 5 4400G Desktop "Renoir" 6-core APU Put Through 3DMark11

It looks like AMD's Ryzen 4000G line of socket AM4 desktop APUs based on the 8-core 7 nm "Renoir" silicon will be a lot wider than just a couple of SKUs. We've seen plenty of material on the top Ryzen 7 4700G part that maxes out everything on the silicon, along with increased power limits and clock speeds. It looks like the Ryzen 5 4000G series will consist of 6-core/12-thread parts. One such chip, the Ryzen 5 4400G surfaced on the 3DMark database, as dug up by TUM_APISAK. They earlier brought you a 3DMark score comparison between the 4400G, the top 4700G, and the entry-level 4200G.

The Ryzen 5 4400G (possible OPN: 100-000000143) appears to be a 6-core/12-thread part based on "Renoir," with the CPU clocked at 3.70 GHz base and possibly 4.30 GHz boost. The "Vega" NGCU count of the iGPU is unknown, but its engine clock is set at 1.90 GHz (max). With the "P" (performance) preset, the 4400G allegedly scores 4395 points in the 3DMark 11 graphics test suite (graphics score); with 10241 points physics score.
Source: TUM_APISAK (Twitter)
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45 Comments on AMD Ryzen 5 4400G Desktop "Renoir" 6-core APU Put Through 3DMark11

#1
cucker tarlson
gonna be the same as 2200g/2400g if they're still using vega
zero progress for 2.5 years
Posted on Reply
#2
maxitaxi96
cucker tarlson
gonna be the same as 2200g/2400g if they're still using vega
zero progress for 2.5 years
weren't they changing some parts of the GPU to RDNA? Also going from 1250 Mhz (2400G) to 1700Mhz is literally a 36% increase in clock-speed... let's see what the CU count and architecture is and then judge progress...
Posted on Reply
#4
randompeep
cucker tarlson
gonna be the same as 2200g/2400g if they're still using vega
zero progress for 2.5 years
I'd rather estimate a GTX 1050 catch-up....making those lil guys obsolete, while some stores still keep selling these at astronomic prices SMH. The impact on the second hand market is gonna be intersting tho, as there we can actaully get 'beefy' GPUs under 100$ mark.
I miss the days when they had to concentrate on actually releasing something in the lower end side of things. Remember GTX x50/Ti & HD x790 for example. But here we are, people are selling used 1060 3GB @150$ !!!

And something is whispering in my head about this pricey Renoir they're about to drop. I'd rather see an early 2021 launch than a hella exploit over the market with these 'COVID consequences' D riding.
Posted on Reply
#5
Fouquin
cucker tarlson
it says vega in the OP
As a point of reference "Vega" has been applied to other generations in the past. Polaris for example has been called Vega. Because AMD is great at keeping their generations distinct and simple.
Posted on Reply
#6
cucker tarlson
Fouquin
Polaris for example has been called Vega.
where ?
Posted on Reply
#7
Fouquin
The "Vega M GL/GH" IGPs built for Intel (i7-8705G, others) are Polaris 22.
Posted on Reply
#8
cucker tarlson
how does that relate to this story ?
ryzen vega is vega
Posted on Reply
#9
Fouquin
Just pointing out that Vega isn't always Vega.
Posted on Reply
#10
BSim500
maxitaxi96
weren't they changing some parts of the GPU to RDNA? Also going from 1250 Mhz (2400G) to 1700Mhz is literally a 36% increase in clock-speed... let's see what the CU count and architecture is and then judge progress...
From what I saw they've reduced CU count across the board (8-11 down to 6-8). It makes sense for AMD to reduce die space, but I'm not sure what negative impact that will have on power consumption (these chips are far more likely to be used in slim SFF cases like Inwin Chopin with lower wattage PSU's). They need to get the prices right too. The only recent APU I've ever been interested in is the £79 3200G which makes sense for someone interested in older games but as soon as you start asking +£150-£200 for 4600G (or whatever they call 6/12 APU's) for the latest heavy AAA's, buying a cheap Ryzen 3100 + 2nd hand 1050Ti / RX470 gives double the fps for virtually the same money. If anything AMD should have given the low-end APU's the higher CU count for gaming, and admit the £300 top-end APU's are more for productivity users to avoid needing to buy a dGPU as literally no-one's gonna build a "budget gaming rig" consisting of a £300-£350 APU with GT1030 class performance vs a Ryzen 3100 + GTX 1650 Super / RX 5500 that gives 4x the fps with change to spare.
Posted on Reply
#11
Caring1
cucker tarlson
gonna be the same as 2200g/2400g if they're still using vega
zero progress for 2.5 years
Are you assuming 2200g/ 2400g is the same as 3200g/ 3400g?
Posted on Reply
#12
Taraquin
You can probably run 3800cl15 (micron E-die) with 4x00G, which should yield a bit of performance compared with 2x00G which usually topped out at 3200cl14-3400cl16. On a system I build I could easily run ram at 3600cl16 with dram calc fast on a 2400G, stable in ram test, cinebench etc, but iGPU refused to work in games above 3200cl14.
Posted on Reply
#13
cucker tarlson
Caring1
Are you assuming 2200g/ 2400g is the same as 3200g/ 3400g?
yes.they're the same.
Posted on Reply
#14
niemand
maxitaxi96
weren't they changing some parts of the GPU to RDNA? Also going from 1250 Mhz (2400G) to 1700Mhz is literally a 36% increase in clock-speed... let's see what the CU count and architecture is and then judge progress...
2200g is 8CU/1100Mhz and 2400G is 11 CU/1250Mhz.
3200g is 8CU/1250Mhz and 2400G is 11 CU/1400Mhz .

Based on Ryzen 4000 and forther APU model leaks:

4200G is 384SP/6CU/1900Mhz, 4400G is Vega 7 448SP/7CU/1900Mhz and 4700G is Vega 8 512SP/8 CU/2100Mhz.

iGPU is considerably faster (1200Mhz of 2400G vs. 1900Mhz of 4400G) but number of CUs are also considerably lower (11CU of 2400G vs 7CU of 4400G).

Looks like AMD decided to keep GPU performance coherent among AM4 APUs so far while introducing better CPU each time.

Since Ryzen 5000 APU (Cezanne) is also supposed to come with Vega based iGPU, according to leaks, we will wait for Ryzen 6000 APU for much better integrated graphics performance.

Ryzen 6000 Rembrandt APU will use RDNA/2 based iGPU. But these are all leaks so far.
Posted on Reply
#15
Caring1
niemand
2200g is 8CU/1100Mhz and 2400G is 11 CU/1250Mhz.
3200g is 8CU/1250Mhz and 2400G is 11 CU/1400Mhz .

Based on Ryzen 4000 and forther APU model leaks:

4200G is 384SP/6CU/1900Mhz, 4400G is Vega 7 448SP/7CU/1900Mhz and 4700G is Vega 8 512SP/8 CU/2100Mhz.

iGPU is considerably faster (1200Mhz of 2400G vs. 1900Mhz of 4400G) but number of CUs are also considerably lower (11CU of 2400G vs 7CU of 4400G).

Looks like AMD decided to keep GPU performance coherent among AM4 APUs so far while introducing better CPU each time.

Since Ryzen 5000 APU (Cezanne) is also supposed to come with Vega based iGPU, according to leaks, we will wait for Ryzen 6000 APU for much better integrated graphics performance.

Ryzen 6000 Rembrandt APU will use RDNA/2 based iGPU. But these are all leaks so far.
Exactly, to compensate for the reduction in CU's they increased clocks.
Posted on Reply
#16
ARF
Fouquin
Just pointing out that Vega isn't always Vega.
In this case it is Vega Enhanced. Can't tell the difference between Vega in Vega 64/56, Vega in Radeon VII and Vega in Ryzen 2000 series / Vega in Ryzen 3000 series.
Posted on Reply
#17
cucker tarlson
niemand
2200g is 8CU/1100Mhz and 2400G is 11 CU/1250Mhz.
3200g is 8CU/1250Mhz and 2400G is 11 CU/1400Mhz .

Based on Ryzen 4000 and forther APU model leaks:

4200G is 384SP/6CU/1900Mhz, 4400G is Vega 7 448SP/7CU/1900Mhz and 4700G is Vega 8 512SP/8 CU/2100Mhz.

iGPU is considerably faster (1200Mhz of 2400G vs. 1900Mhz of 4400G) but number of CUs are also considerably lower (11CU of 2400G vs 7CU of 4400G).

Looks like AMD decided to keep GPU performance coherent among AM4 APUs so far while introducing better CPU each time.

Since Ryzen 5000 APU (Cezanne) is also supposed to come with Vega based iGPU, according to leaks, we will wait for Ryzen 6000 APU for much better integrated graphics performance.

Ryzen 6000 Rembrandt APU will use RDNA/2 based iGPU. But these are all leaks so far.
hardly any difference in the end.
Posted on Reply
#19
Bansaku
BSim500
From what I saw they've reduced CU count across the board (8-11 down to 6-8). It makes sense for AMD to reduce die space, but I'm not sure what negative impact that will have on power consumption (these chips are far more likely to be used in slim SFF cases like Inwin Chopin with lower wattage PSU's). They need to get the prices right too. The only recent APU I've ever been interested in is the £79 3200G which makes sense for someone interested in older games but as soon as you start asking +£150-£200 for 4600G (or whatever they call 6/12 APU's) for the latest heavy AAA's, buying a cheap Ryzen 3100 + 2nd hand 1050Ti / RX470 gives double the fps for virtually the same money. If anything AMD should have given the low-end APU's the higher CU count for gaming, and admit the £300 top-end APU's are more for productivity users to avoid needing to buy a dGPU as literally no-one's gonna build a "budget gaming rig" consisting of a £300-£350 APU with GT1030 class performance vs a Ryzen 3100 + GTX 1650 Super / RX 5500 that gives 4x the fps with change to spare.
Let's not jump the gun here, and I quote from your source:

" The iGPU appears to come with eight Vega Compute Units (CUs) clocked at 2,100 MHz. Although not confirmed yet, this configuration would be a step backward in terms of CUs. "

Key words here being appears and not confirmed. I have no doubt that AMD could release a killer APU (i.e. PS4 Pro) and slay anything Intel pushes. Regardless, you are correct in saying the value isn't there compared to purchasing cheaper CPU coupled with a second hand dGPU, however while people do "game" on iGPUs they do not buy APU to exclusively game on. Think Intel's NUC or System-on-a-stick; Something's gotta drive the pixels, especially with today's media rich websites.
Posted on Reply
#20
MDDB
"AMD's Ryzen 4000G line (...) will be a lot wider than just a couple of SKUs. ".

3 SKUs? 4700G, 4400G and 4200G? That's certainly 50% more than 2, it may qualify as "a lot wider" :roll:
Posted on Reply
#21
Sykobee
3200G has 8CUs, not 11CUs. 3400G has 11CUs.

So the 4200G will have 6CUs, which is 25% lower, but the clocks will be far higher.
And the 4400G will have 7CUs.

But yes, they're not exactly generational leaps - probably due to the memory bandwidth problem when using shared system memory for graphics as well. Renoir might have faster memory support, but it also has 6 or 8 CPU cores now. DDR5 in a couple of years will help this level of APU, so hopefully we will see 12-16CUs in a future DDR5 APU. Otherwise, on-package memory is needed (IMO a single GDDR6 die would be more than enough to feed even 20CUs) but this is only useful for area-constrained devices - a discrete GPU is a better option otherwise.

Pricing is key, and part of the reason the CU count is low is to save die space so AMD can make a lot, so hopefully AMD have some room to be competitive (with themselves!).
Posted on Reply
#23
thevoiceofreason
Can it play Witcher 3 (which is now a 5y old game) at 1080p/high? Probably once again not.

We won't see decent APU performance before DDR5.
Posted on Reply
#24
mechtech
randompeep
I'd rather estimate a GTX 1050 catch-up....making those lil guys obsolete, while some stores still keep selling these at astronomic prices SMH. The impact on the second hand market is gonna be intersting tho, as there we can actaully get 'beefy' GPUs under 100$ mark.
I miss the days when they had to concentrate on actually releasing something in the lower end side of things. Remember GTX x50/Ti & HD x790 for example. But here we are, people are selling used 1060 3GB @150$ !!!

And something is whispering in my head about this pricey Renoir they're about to drop. I'd rather see an early 2021 launch than a hella exploit over the market with these 'COVID consequences' D riding.
Same
www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-rx-460-strix-oc/

Almost 1000 shaders, 4GB for ~$140, est. 3% inflation per year (very conservative) and that's 12% more. Cards in that price range are this www.newegg.ca/asus-geforce-gt-1030-ph-gt1030-o2g/p/N82E16814126209 (384 shaders)

I fix up pc's as a hobby for freinds and family, many are/were using systems with radeon 6850 and earlier gen and equiv nvidia cards. I remember updating more than a few to windows 10 and having no drivers or driver issues. Try and find a current (within 1 year) gpu in the $100 ish range now.
Posted on Reply
#25
Darmok N Jalad
I suspect they stayed with Vega because the architecture is more proven, and these chips will likely go to OEMs. Recall the struggles with RDNA at launch, and that would have been a tough sell to get design wins in laptops and desktops.
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