mtcn77I'm sure you know much of the EUV scaling has been on the backing of laser mask validation tools newly available to the market. Sources say the japanese company is booked for literally years at this time.
I haven't seen such straight-faced announcements, maybe you have more experience.

Oh come on, I was commenting his attempt to reply to a specific forum member.. I'm not questioning anything.

mcraygsxI do not find anything wrong with how people choose to name their kids.
I have twin Cousin's named Zen and Zane. People should not judge how others choose to live their lives.

Kids with weird names are likely to end up with a life of torment.

At school, they can become a target for bullying.
For random people, they may have to justify, defend or help pronounce their name countless times.
When applying for work, their CV may get thrown out simply on the name alone.

It's a sad reflection of their parents.

Kids are human beings; they are not pets, farm animals or racehorses.

ARFI'd agree that the first version of Zen cost money. The latter versions, including Zen 4 are just evolutionary improvements, and mostly just not so significant optimisations of the slow parts in the design.
They don't cost money except the salaries and the masks, which I am quite sure AMD returns in no time.

I think there are usually a few designs being developed concurrently. Bleeding edge semiconductor development is astronomically expensive.

steve360Someone named their kid Ryzen...WTF?

Parents of this generation are clearly on brain killing drugs.

I feel sorry for that one kid in class who has a normal name.

I shit you not, I know a girl who's older sister has had 3 kids, boys. She and her husband named kids as such:
The first kid - Tae.
The second kid - Kwon.
The third kid - Do.

Hmmmmmmm. New motherboard and CPU and reuse ram. Might be able to swing it.....................if the Cnd $ doesn't drop anymore :(

I think Zen 3 is the real Intel killer on gaming.

HugsNotDrugsI think there are usually a few designs being developed concurrently. Bleeding edge semiconductor development is astronomically expensive.

I think it is cheaper. It doesn't have to be too cheap, the costs no longer compromise the timeline. You don't have a mask ready? Why not order three, see which one works and recycle the defectives.
Compare it to the past: one has to wonder how electical engineers lasted thus far without any safety net in early ramp up. They must have relied on instinct at some point... that doesn't sound professional.

Tom YumYou think that even the yearly updates don't cost valuable R&D dollars? Those optimisations aren't just sitting there waiting to be 'turned on' when the yearly update comes around. Bottlenecks have to be analysed, solutions found and then reanalyzed to check what the second and third order effects of the change are to catch any reversions. Papermaster's comments are more about the need at some point to lock the design lest they suffer the Osborne effect. That always means some optimisations are left out, either because they aren't ready to commit to a configuration baseline or the 2nd/3rd order effects are getting worked out. Given AMD is still 'chasing' Intel in certain performance areas, it would be extremely unlikely that AMD are sitting on optimisations that could resolve that performance shortfall just to milk existing designs.

CPU's and architectures are incredibly complex systems, and you can never produce the optimal solution on the first past. That's why an architecture will typically only be redeveloped every 3-4 generations, with every other update being an optimisation (at the architectural level, not at the silicon level).

HugsNotDrugsI think there are usually a few designs being developed concurrently. Bleeding edge semiconductor development is astronomically expensive.

Nvidia uses the right process with the best possible IPC architectural improvements.
AMD uses the best process with the right IPC improvements.

Nvidia revenue 3 billion $, AMD revenue 0.9 billion $.

ARFNvidia uses the right process with the best possible IPC architectural improvements.
AMD uses the best process with the right IPC improvements.

Nvidia revenue 3 billion $, AMD revenue 0.9 billion $.

Glad someone is pulling numbers out of their ass without a link to back it up. Intel still looks strong because of their saturation they have in the market. Takes time to take that away from them. Intel wins in some areas and amd wins in others, multi core is amd and they bet on multi core being a big demand and i think they are right. Even tho they dont win in every area, they win in enough and right areas to outsell there competition. Nvidia and amd gpus are different. Nvidia wants top end, ai, other which wins in alot of areas. Amd wants mid range and work enviorments that only need mid range. They want to come back to high end and i want that too. I think they found out that it was a mistake and are now directing more attention to it. All in all competition is good for us and the prices too.

ARFNvidia revenue 3 billion $, AMD revenue 0.9 billion $.

1.97b not 0.9

amd's net income is pretty low tho.less than 1/10th the total revenue.for nvidia it's 1/3rd.

steve360Kids with weird names are likely to end up with a life of torment.

At school, they can become a target for bullying.
For random people, they may have to justify, defend or help pronounce their name countless times.
When applying for work, their CV may get thrown out simply on the name alone.

It's a sad reflection of their parents.

Kids are human beings; they are not pets, farm animals or racehorses.

Sure, but Ryzen isn't particularly strange of a name. It's not like they're called Ben Dover or something like that.

kayjay010101Sure, but Ryzen isn't particularly strange of a name. It's not like they're called Ben Dover or something like that.

It's strange. As strange as Core, Geforce or Radeon.

Tomorrow there will be no Ryzen anymore and the poor kid will have to explain that he is a thing from the past.

Why not Athlon, Phenom or Sempron ?

cucker tarlson1.97b not 0.9

amd's net income is pretty low tho.less than 1/10th the total revenue.for nvidia it's 1/3rd.

To be honest though, if I was running AMD I'd be investing every dollar I made into R&D because eventually Intel will get their act together and with the amount Intel invests in R&D, keeping up will them will require some serious investment in future product development. They've done it so far so I have hope they can (because we all want a competitive CPU market), but if they want to continue eating into Intel's marketshare they are going to need to invest everything they have into growing the company through R&D.

That is why for companies like AMD, success will be continuing to grow revenue while keeping small but positive net income (not unlike Amazon for years). Companies like Intel measure success based on net income because their size makes revenue growth hard to maintain.

Tom YumTo be honest though, if I was running AMD I'd be investing every dollar I made into R&D because eventually Intel will get their act together and with the amount Intel invests in R&D, keeping up will them will require some serious investment in future product development. They've done it so far so I have hope they can (because we all want a competitive CPU market), but if they want to continue eating into Intel's marketshare they are going to need to invest everything they have into growing the company through R&D.

That is why for companies like AMD, success will be continuing to grow revenue while keeping small but positive net income (not unlike Amazon for years). Companies like Intel measure success based on net income because their size makes revenue growth hard to maintain.

Intel will not fight back. Eventually, soon all the x86-64 will be replaced by super efficient RISC ARM.

ARFIt's strange. As strange as Core, Geforce or Radeon.

Tomorrow there will be no Ryzen anymore and the poor kid will have to explain that he is a thing from the past.

Why not Athlon, Phenom or Sempron ?

Core isn't particularly strange either. Geforce is, but that's mostly because it contains the word 'force'. Radeon isn't too strange either. Athlon, Phenom and Sempron could all be legitimate names, they just sound latin so a bit pretentious.
Kid doesn't have to explain that his name is from somewhere. Most people aren't clued up on computer hardware. Worst case he does come across someone who, 10-15 years from now, remembers Ryzen and is clued up on what it is. That's pretty cool, IMO.
Maybe I'm the weird one. I just don't think it's a big deal. I've seen kids with way worse names that didn't get bullied. I'd get it if they called their kid like "Poopoo Farthead the Third, jr.". But 'Ryzen'? Nah, not that big a deal. Not my favorite choice, but not a big deal.

ZEN3 on schedule for a 2020 release.
At least AMDs CEO came out and said it again to quiet those that claim its delayed till 2021.
There's absolutely no reason for AMD to delay ZEN3's launch, and if they did it would be greed? I assume?
AMD has the advantage, and they need to continue applying as much pressure and CPU dominance as much as possible all while Intel is asleep.

Super XPZEN3 on schedule for a 2020 release.
At least AMDs CEO came out and said it again to quiet those that claim its delayed till 2021.
There's absolutely no reason for AMD to delay ZEN3's launch, and if they did it would be greed? I assume?
AMD has the advantage, and they need to continue applying as much pressure and CPU dominance as much as possible all while Intel is asleep.

Especially given that the vast majority of the OEMs and other companies continue to buy Intel's systems, thus continuing to execute some contracts, maybe ? :banghead:

steve360Someone named their kid Ryzen...WTF?

Parents of this generation are clearly on brain killing drugs.

I feel sorry for that one kid in class who has a normal name.

What, Skylake? :p

ARFEspecially given that the vast majority of the OEMs and other companies continue to buy Intel's systems, thus continuing to execute some contracts, maybe ? :banghead:

You know, this concept keeps being regurgitated apparently in the absence of much data. Intel is not defeated in all, and in fact arguably wins, on productivity.

Let's take this review:
www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-10700k/

I'm looking at the green bar in these charts. This is the 10700K with DDR4-3200 RAM. Not the overclocked bars.
The Ryzen is represented up to the 3900X

I'm going to skip over the rendering / synthetics, because for one no one runs synthetics for productivity and for another rendering and encoding are very rare in corporate offices. Lets just say Ryzen wins in these categories.

Software Development:
Unreal Engine 4 Bake Lighting development with rendering : 10700K beats every Ryzen
C/C++ Compiling with Visual Studio 2019 : 10700K beats every Ryzen

Web:
Google Octane : 10700K beats every Ryzen

Mozilla Kraken: 3600X/3700X/3900X all beat the 10700K

WebXPRT : 10700K beats every Ryzen

Science:
Tensorflow AI test : 10700k beats every Ryzen

Euler3D structure / fluid flow simulation: 3900X beats the 10700K, while 10700K wins over all other Ryzen

Digicotex brain neuron sim : 10700k beats every Ryzen

Office:
Word 2019 : 10700K beats every Ryzen

Excel 2019 : 10700k beats every ryzen

Powerpoint : 3700X beats the 10700k (by < 1%)

Image editing:
Adobe Photoshop CC : 10700K beats every Ryzen

Adobe Premier Pro : 10700K beats every Ryzen

Photogrammetry (creating 3D models from photos) : 10700K beats every Ryzen

Tesseract OCR convert image to text : 10700k beats every Ryzen

VMWare Workstation 15: 10700k beats every Ryzen

MySQL : 3900X wins, 10700K is higher than all other Ryzens

Java : 3900X wins, 10700K beats all other Ryzen

Even on the encoding benchmarks, you need a 3900X+ to beat the 10700K on h.264/h.265. 10700K wins on Mp3 encoding.

I think the benchmarks speak for themselves. There are also repeated wins from Intel at various other sites on PCMark 10, which includes office apps, web browsing (including social media, map pan/zoom, page load times), image editing, video conferencing, face recognition, and rendering.

Now sure, run Cinebench multi-threaded or any well threaded video editor and Ryzen will win.

But the other aspects of "productivity" are most definitely *not* a clean sweep for Ryzen even now unless one is solely focused on rendering and video editing.

RandallFlaggYou know, this concept keeps being regurgitated apparently in the absence of much data. Intel is not defeated in all, and in fact arguably wins, on productivity.

You are wrong because you compare a 125-watt heavily overclocked Intel vs 65-watt Ryzens.
I am actually quite sure that the 35-watt Ryzen 9 4900HS is as fast as the 125-watt Core i7-10700K.

And has no security issues.


www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+9+4900HS&id=3694



www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-10700K+%40+3.80GHz&id=3733

ARFYou are wrong because you compare a 125-watt heavily overclocked Intel vs 65-watt Ryzens.

Re-read my post. I stated at the beginning I was looking at the green bar which is *NOT* overclocked.

RandallFlaggRe-read my post. I stated at the beginning I was looking at the green bar which is *NOT* overclocked.

It is heavily overclocked in the factory.

ARFIt is heavily overclocked in the factory.

If it does, it still has more OC headroom than any Ryzen.

And on the corporate front, which is what I was replying to, for reliability they would want to stick to JEDEC standard memory. Pretty much every Ryzen system has overclocked RAM, since JEDEC doesn't go beyond 2933. My DDR4-3200 RAM is running > 3300 but the chips are only certified to 2133.

But on a corporate system, look for yourself, OEM desktops bound for business environments do stick to the standard. Even the Ryzen ones.

Now how does a Ryzen perform when it isn't running OC RAM? Hmmm....

AMD needs to push Renoir and Cezanne 25-watt, 35-watt, 45-watt and 65-watt parts with iGPU for all the segments up to the 8-core/16-thread offering, and use the chiplets approach for more offers starting from 12-core, 16-core, and higher.

Renoir has higher efficiency than Matisse, and it's about time the desktop parts begin to pursue laptop-level of efficiency, instead of nuclear reactors with industrial chillers, as is the case with all the Intel offerings.

ARFEspecially given that the vast majority of the OEMs and other companies continue to buy Intel's systems, thus continuing to execute some contracts, maybe ? :banghead:

The only reason why Intel continues to have a leg up over AMD is because Intel gives deep discounts on top of the Intel Fanboy IT professionals giving wrong advice to there place of work, and wrongfully recommend Inferior Intel products, despite AMD Ryzen being FAR MORE Supervisor in absolutely Everything.....

We got IT Fanboys running the joints lmao