Monday, May 31st 2021

AMD "Zen 3+" Microarchitecture is "Zen 3" with 3D Vertical Cache Technology, 15% Gaming Perf Gain

AMD CEO Dr Lisa Su, in her Computex 2021 Keynote address detailed what could very well be the "Zen 3+" microarchitecture that's been in the news lately, although the name "Zen 3+" was never used in the keynote address. AMD has collaborated with TSMC on developing a new die-on-die 3D stacking technology using TSVs (through-silicon vias) and structural silicon substrate, to place a 64 MB SRAM on top of the "Zen 3" CCD, which it calls 3D Vertical Cache. This cache die sits directly over the region that has the CCD's own 32 MB L3 cache, and the difference in height between the two dies is leveled using structural silicon. At this point we don't know how the cache hierarchy is changed, whether the 64 MB add-on cache is contiguous with the on-die L3 cache, or whether it's an L4 victim cache to the L3$. With it, the total cache amount of the CCD jumps to 100 MB (4 MB L2 caches + 32 MB L3 cache + 64 MB 3D Vertical Cache).

AMD has made some startling claims as to the performance impact of 3D Vertical Cache Technology. It claims that gaming performance improves by an average of 15%, which is akin to a generational performance impact in and of itself. With these gains, AMD hopes to make up whatever gaming performance deficit the "Zen 3" microarchitecture has against Intel's "Rocket Lake-S." The first processors implementing 3D Vertical Cache Technology will start arriving by the end of 2021, which means it could very well be the Ryzen 6000 series desktop processors, leaving the Ryzen 7000 series to be based on the 5 nm "Zen 4," on track to a 2022 release.
How AMD plans to release these updated dies on the client ecosystem remains a mystery. The prototype Dr Su showed in her keynote address clearly appears to be Socket AM4. If the new Socket AM5 is on course to later this year, it's very likely that these "Zen 3 + 3D VC" CCDs could be paired with an updated cIOD (client I/O die) that supports DDR5 memory, and packaged for AM5.
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54 Comments on AMD "Zen 3+" Microarchitecture is "Zen 3" with 3D Vertical Cache Technology, 15% Gaming Perf Gain

#1
nguyen
Oh boy I hope Ryzen 6000 is still on AM4, that would be awesome.
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#2
matar
Hats off AMD, But Just still bought an I9-10850k because NO stock and had to ridiculously over pay for a RTX 2060 GPU just to get my system running. Cant over pay for 2 items.
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#3
persondb
I wonder if this mean that Rembrandt will also have this. It would certainly be a godsent to mobile and allow it to be more energy efficient, while also making the gap of mobile L3(16mb) vs desktop L3(32mb) less noticeable.
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#4
TumbleGeorge
Cache on top on cristal? Will got all heat from other working transistors below it and we will have a roasted cache.
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#5
Fouquin
TumbleGeorgeCache on top on cristal? Will got all heat from other working transistors below it and we will have a roasted cache.
SRAM can be this dense because it doesn't get hot. No need to worry about thermals changing any significant amount. Go check out Fritz's videos with the bare die CPUs and watch the cache blocks barely change temp as cores fire up all around.
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#6
Mussels
Moderprator
Oh hell yeah, one last hurrah for AM4
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#8
evernessince
matarHats off AMD, But Just still bought an I9-10850k because NO stock and had to ridiculously over pay for a RTX 2060 GPU just to get my system running. Cant over pay for 2 items.
What country do you live in? 5800X and 5600X have been in good stock for awhile now. Even below MSRP.

If you goal was the cores, AMD 8 cores are as good as Intel 10 core in multi-thread.
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#9
MWK
AMD have finally done it I'm getting another processor update from zen 2 3950x to this.... THE LAST AM4 PROCESSOR CANT WAIT!!!!! :clap::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:
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#10
evernessince
This is why thinking that 3D stacking was going to give Intel an edge didn't make sense. AMD can do 3D stacking and MCM. I'm sure there are thermal considerations for 3D stacking as well, like not stacking high power chiplets on top of each other.

"With these gains, AMD hopes to make up whatever gaming performance deficit the "Zen 3" microarchitecture has against Intel's "Rocket Lake-S.""

We're talking about Intel 11xxx series right? The one that's slower in gaming than last gen Intel products?
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#11
matar
evernessinceWhat country do you live in? 5800X and 5600X have been in good stock for awhile now. Even below MSRP.

If you goal was the cores, AMD 8 cores are as good as Intel 10 core in multi-thread.
USA
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#12
ratirt
matarUSA
Plenty of stock bro and discounts. How could you've missed it?




One more refresh for AM4 would have been nice. I got a CPU but if it turns out to be 15% better as they claim, might pull a trigger on this one as well.
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#13
evernessince
matarUSA
Stock in the US has been good for months....
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#14
Raendor
evernessinceThis is why thinking that 3D stacking was going to give Intel an edge didn't make sense. AMD can do 3D stacking and MCM. I'm sure there are thermal considerations for 3D stacking as well, like not stacking high power chiplets on top of each other.

"With these gains, AMD hopes to make up whatever gaming performance deficit the "Zen 3" microarchitecture has against Intel's "Rocket Lake-S.""

We're talking about Intel 11xxx series right? The one that's slower in gaming than last gen Intel products?
last question is such bs. Couple games that should be updated or a microcode update to allow correctly use the architecture. In everything else rocket lake competes more tha nicely with 5600x and 5800x thanks to 11400 and 11700 (non-k) with far better price.
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#15
Sora
nguyenOh boy I hope Ryzen 6000 is still on AM4, that would be awesome.
Zen3+ will only be seen in APU's for AM4 and notebooks.
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#16
AusWolf
FouquinSRAM can be this dense because it doesn't get hot. No need to worry about thermals changing any significant amount. Go check out Fritz's videos with the bare die CPUs and watch the cache blocks barely change temp as cores fire up all around.
OK, it doesn't get hot, but what about the CCD itself? With its offset location and high density, it gets hot enough as it is, not to mention with a layer of cache sitting on top of it.
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#17
Caring1
MusselsOh hell yeah, one last hurrah for AM4
I doubt it, it's a prototype using the AM4 substrate, I believe it will be AM5 only.
But we live in hope.
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#18
Tomgang
Oh nice news. Hope this is for AM4, as that will give me one upgrade path from Zen 3 in a few years.
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#19
cyberloner
TomgangOh nice news. Hope this is for AM4, as that will give me one upgrade path from Zen 3 in a few years.
i just buy new am4 with 5800x
pray to lisa su ..... hope she can hear........... lol
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#20
z1n0x
Cool stuff. That rock on the first screenshot though. ;)
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#21
RealKGB
So...
They took Zen 3 and glued more cache on top.
Cool.

This is cool, though. The tech ideas that AMD have worked on are crazy. Infinity Fabric, chiplets, stacking chiplets, Infinity Cache, their FX glue-two-cores-together thing.
I wonder if this is how they'll make it to 128+ core chips? Take a current Threadripper, stick another Threadripper on top, wire it all together.
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#22
Midland Dog
"structural sillicon" why not just copper or aluminium so you can move the heat not block it, yes im right your wrong otherwise die lapping would do nothing and comet lake and coffee will be the same temps
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#23
Legacy-ZA
evernessinceWhat country do you live in? 5800X and 5600X have been in good stock for awhile now. Even below MSRP.

If you goal was the cores, AMD 8 cores are as good as Intel 10 core in multi-thread.
In South-Africa we always have stock of these CPU's however, though supply is no longer an issue, their prices remain the same, these stores run purely on so-called "discounts", as everything is discounted all the time (not really, they just look discounted, but it is just the normal price to fool people that think they are getting a great deal)
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#24
TheoneandonlyMrK
Much better than a IHS pr piece, less jaded today, a little excitement has creeped back in.
Looks good.
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#25
TechLurker
I'm in the camp hoping for an AM4 6000 series mini-refresh; was planning to buy a 5900X or 5950X, but I can wait for a 6900X or 6950X. It would also be the best send-off for AM4 if AMD could squeeze out one final ;P at Intel as well.
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