Tuesday, October 12th 2021

AMD Celebrates 5 Years of Ryzen...and Insomnia at Intel

AMD disrupted a decade of $350 quad-core from Intel with its path-breaking Ryzen processor and the "Zen" microarchitecture, which enters 5th year in the market (5 years since tapeout). AMD went into the Ryzen processor launch as a company that had been written off in the CPU space by PC enthusiasts, and "Zen" was at best expected to give AMD another round of processors to sell around $250. Boy was everyone wrong. The Ryzen 7 1800X eight-core processor brought HEDT-levels of performance to the mainstream desktop form-factor, and its HEDT counterpart, the Threadripper, dominated Intel's Core X series ever since.

Intel's first response to the 1800X was a 50% increase in CPU core counts calculating that AMD would only see marginal IPC increases going forward, and the superior IPC of "Skylake" cores, along with a 6-core/12-thread setup in the Core i7-8700K would see things through. This is roughly when Intel faced severe supply shortages that spiraled prices out of control, giving AMD space to come out with the Ryzen 7 2700X with a 4% IPC increase, and improved multi-threaded performance, but more importantly, predictable pricing at around $330. Months later, Intel refreshed its lineup with the 9th Gen, and finally attained parity with AMD in core counts, with the Core i9-9900K.
The i9-9900K put Intel back into the hands of the enthusiasts on account of high IPC and core-counts. AMD responded with the unthinkable—doubling CPU core counts to 16, and the "Zen 2" microarchitecture posting a double-digit % IPC increase. These took the performance crown away from Intel, which could only clutch on to the slightly higher IPC of its CPU cores, which resulted in higher gaming performance. The 10th Gen i9-10900K dialed core-counts up to 10 and no further, as Intel had hit the upper limits of how many cores it could cram into a 14 nm silicon that fits on Socket-Hx. AMD's posted a consecutive double-digit IPC gain with "Zen 3," which finally took the performance crown away from Intel. Having ceded the multi-threaded performance space squarely to AMD, Intel thought it could develop a gaming powerhouse processor despite being limited to 14 nm, and came up with the 11th Gen "Rocket Lake." Its gaming performance fell short of expectations, and AMD remains the brand of choice for PC enthusiasts. Intel is once again looking to change this, with the 12th Gen Core "Alder Lake." We'll know soon enough if it succeeded.
Source: Andreas Schilling (Twitter)
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26 Comments on AMD Celebrates 5 Years of Ryzen...and Insomnia at Intel

#1
Outback Bronze
Congrats AMD. I'm pretty sure most people thought you were dead and gone.
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#2
windwhirl
Outback BronzeCongrats AMD. I'm pretty sure most people thought you were dead and gone.
Yeah, the prediction was that AMD would be bankrupt in 2020... Heh, that was one hell of a change of direction
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#3
DeathtoGnomes
windwhirlYeah, the prediction was that AMD would be bankrupt in 2020... Heh, that was one hell of a change of direction
schills are still nay-saying AMD.
btarunrWe'll know soon enough if it succeeded.
Intel is, again, shooting themselves in the foot with embellished PR's on performance, not like they havent done that before this iteration. So yea, reviews will show if they have succeeded or not.
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#4
AnarchoPrimitiv
windwhirlYeah, the prediction was that AMD would be bankrupt in 2020... Heh, that was one hell of a change of direction
I remember a month before Ryzen was released, people (especially on WCCFTech which I don't go to anymore since most of the commentors are fascist trolls) were predicting AMD would be bankrupt in six months!

That being said, I don't think AMD's presence is completely guaranteed in the future as they have a huge, uphill battle with a resurgent Intel. I've said this way too much on here, but Intel has an R&D budget 6.5x greater than AMD (2020 R&D budget is $13.65 billion vs $1.98 Billion....Nvidia's is $3.9 Billion just as an FYI) and a revenue stream nearly 8x greater than AMD (2020 Revenue $77.87 billion vs $9.76 billion), and this is a huge disadvantage for AMD to contend with, and makes it all that more impressive to consider that AMD has been not only able to compete, but best Intel the last few years (and compete with Nvidia while their R&D budget is basically double that of AMD's and is basically only spend on GPU tech versus GPU and x86 for AMD). Unfortunately for AMD, it has not had nearly enough market penetration in the mobile x86 market and enterprise, which have substantially larger T.A.M.'s than Desktop OEM x86 and desktop DIY (which is probably the smallest).

While things look good for AMD right now, their presence is definitely not guaranteed in the x86 space in the future...."enthusiasts" can be either extremely fickle, so just two consecutive generations of AMD only reaching parity or being slightly behind Intel could have serious consequences, or they're stubbornly loyal, with many never even contemplating trying AMD over the past few years despite being the better option in most use cases....this is especially true in the lucrative market of mobile x86. The vast majority of consumers only ever consider buying a laptop, and literally probably don't even associate a desktop with the word "computer" in their mind. That said, the overwhelming majority of these consumers basically instinctively buy an Intel based laptop, and probably either don't even know of AMD's existence, or never bother to do any research (as most people abstain from doing when purchasing any item) and don't even understand AMD as a viable option that offers better performance and battery life in many use cases. Part of this probably has to do with OEMs keeping AMD out of their mid to top tier laptop designs up until recently so that they didn't get the exposure they needed, but also the large amount of inertia AMD had to and has to overcome with respect to the "mentia" of consumers with respect to their brand.

Perhaps I'm being too worried, but I'm concerned that AMD didn't achieve enough market penetration over the past several years while they were in a position of complete domination (the chip shortage really hurt AMD in this respect, as they haven't been able to move nearly as much product as they undoubtedly would have with Zen3 and RDNA2 since Covid. With Intel resurgent, which was only inevitable, the next 3-5 years will be the ones that define not only the future of AMD, but of the prospects of continued, legitimate competition in the x86 space for general consumers and x86 enthusiasts alike. It would have been preferable for AMD to at least have another three years of dominance with a completely unhindered supply chain to achieve 15%-20% share in enterprise and perhaps 30% in mobile in order to build top of mind awareness amongst general consumers and to accumulate financial resources large enough to effectively combat Intel in the future.....all for the sake of ensuring continued competition in the long term.

Prelimary reports, including one on this very website, have rumored Zen4 IPC increases to be at 29%, which would easily overcome any alderlake advantage, add into this other improvements such as switching to 5nm, V-cache, frequency increases, etc and Zen4 could definitely achieve 35%+ (the v-chache on Zen3 has been claimed to increase overall performance by 15% alone) core for core performance improvements over Zen3....but if this is another year away, it'd be facing raptorlake (I think) and that's a whole different story. Either way, Lisa Su will do everything possible with the resources available to her, but the question is whether that's enough to overcome Intel's extreme advantage in financial resources
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#5
TheinsanegamerN
AMD responded with the unthinkable
And began selling their 6 core CPU for $300, a 90% price increase over their zen 2 6 core, for a 20% performance increase, promptly abandoning the low end market that had kept them alive for years. They also jacked up the price of their 8 core to $450, wiping out any potential perf/$ arguments, while refusing to support their older chipsets until public outcry forced them to backtrack and support X470. X300 users were still left with buggy beta firmware.

The student has become the master.
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#6
Bomby569
ZoneDymotrolling is a art
why, for speaking the truth?
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#7
seth1911
There are a few CPU but there isnt a GPU till 250€,
sure yeah a RX 550 with 2GB for 130€ even a RX 550 with 4GB for 240€.

Bad times to buy a new GPU for sure but from Nvidia i can get a 1030 GDDR5 for 90€, a 1050TI for 160€ and a 1650 for 230€.
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#8
Bomby569
seth1911There are a few CPU but there isnt a GPU till 250€,
sure yeah a RX 550 with 2GB for 130€ even a RX 550 with 4GB for 240€.

Bad times to buy a new GPU for sure but from Nvidia i can get a 1030 GDDR5 for 90€, a 1050TI for 160€ and a 1650 for 230€.
in GPU's MSRP isn't a thing anymore and retail prices are dictated by what is avaiable not by what AMD or Nvidia marks them i think anyway.
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#9
Turmania
TheinsanegamerNAnd began selling their 6 core CPU for $300, a 90% price increase over their zen 2 6 core, for a 20% performance increase, promptly abandoning the low end market that had kept them alive for years. They also jacked up the price of their 8 core to $450, wiping out any potential perf/$ arguments, while refusing to support their older chipsets until public outcry forced them to backtrack and support X470. X300 users were still left with buggy beta firmware.

The student has become the master.
I would sign this. spoken the truth. They completely showed the middle finger to the customer base that kept them afloat. but they get away with it for reasons that border woke incidents in todays geo political environment.
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#10
ZoneDymo
TurmaniaI would sign this. spoken the truth. They completely showed the middle finger to the customer base that kept them afloat. but they get away with it for reasons that border woke incidents in todays geo political environment.
"woke" "geo political enviroment", that kinda person
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#11
defaultluser
TheinsanegamerNAnd began selling their 6 core CPU for $300, a 90% price increase over their zen 2 6 core, for a 20% performance increase, promptly abandoning the low end market that had kept them alive for years. They also jacked up the price of their 8 core to $450, wiping out any potential perf/$ arguments, while refusing to support their older chipsets until public outcry forced them to backtrack and support X470. X300 users were still left with buggy beta firmware.

The student has become the master.
It's a 50% price bump. the $200 3600 * 1.5 = $300 5600x

And, the prices were intentionally increased to reduce demands during the Pandemic - 6 months later, and demand was finally sated.

While I will agree the 5600x is overpriced, the $239 5600G gives new life to Zen 3
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#12
Tomorrow
TheinsanegamerNAnd began selling their 6 core CPU for $300, a 90% price increase over their zen 2 6 core, for a 20% performance increase, promptly abandoning the low end market that had kept them alive for years. They also jacked up the price of their 8 core to $450, wiping out any potential perf/$ arguments, while refusing to support their older chipsets until public outcry forced them to backtrack and support X470. X300 users were still left with buggy beta firmware.

The student has become the master.
Dont forget rapidly increasing Threadripper prices with the 3000 series and breaking backward compatibility with 2000 series and X399. Instead requiring a new TRX40 and even WRX80 boards in addition to more expensive 3000 series models. This is what lack of competition does. And TRX will be obsolete anyway once DDR5 Threadrippes will come in 2023.

The bare minimum Alder Lake will do is hopefully force AMD to lower 5000 series prices and introduce 3D cache models at no higher price points than what the 5000 series launched with.
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#13
defaultluser
TomorrowDont forget rapidly increasing Threadripper prices with the 3000 series and breaking backward compatibility with 2000 series and X399. Instead requiring a new TRX40 and even WRX80 boards in addition to more expensive 3000 series models. This is what lack of competition does. And TRX will be obsolete anyway once DDR5 Threadrippes will come in 2023.

The bare minimum Alder Lake will do is hopefully force AMD to lower 5000 series prices and introduce 3D cache models at no higher price points than what the 5000 series launched with.
They had to do that because External Memory Controller made a lot more sense than trying to scale up to 64 cores versus NUMA.

When your existing memory controllers are already laid-out, it's going to take a lot of hacking to make it all work under unified memory map - so, they just made new motherboards!!
Posted on Reply
#14
Tomorrow
defaultluserThey had to do that because External Memory Controller made a lot more sense than trying to scale up to 64 cores versus NUMA.

When your existing memory controllers are already laid-out, it's going to take a lot of hacking to make it all work under unified memory map - so, they just made new motherboards!!
Good theory. But it falls apart as soon as you realize that they did NOT break compatibility on EPYC. First gen boards continue to support 3rd gen CPU's unlike Threadripper.
That's because unlike HEDT where AMD achieved utter dominance they could not do the same with their paltry ~15% market share. Breaking backward compatibility there would have pissed off their enterprise customers.
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#15
Bomby569
seth1911The price increase from Threadripper 19xx and TR4 Boards to TRX is insane :laugh:

Atm its cheaper to get a XEON 3647 or Epyic:wtf::fear:


Amd know what they do, a fucking Workstation Plattform (TRX) ist much more expensive than Xeon and Epyic for Server,
Amd should burn in hell retarded Company:rolleyes:
AMD was selling their products insanely cheap at the beginning if you consider what the market was before Ryzen. It's natural for them to increase prices now, not fair for us, but natural.
On the other hand Intel was sucking all our blood with their prices before Ryzen, now all their products are so cheap.

This isn't as simple as one is the devil and the other angels and then flipped. This is how the competition works. If there is no competition they go crazy, if they are down they lower prices, if they are on the upper hand they increase prices.

They are just companies, max profits. They couldn't care less about us, just our money.
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#16
seth1911
Thats true thats the point why ill never buy AMD anymore.
I have only AMD APU till now Godavari for FM2+ but in future ill never buy anything from them.

Oligopol or Monopol fuck off :shadedshu:
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#17
windwhirl
seth1911but in future ill never buy anything from them.
I hope you're also ready to relinquish any idea of having any x86 processor, because guess what:

Intel did the exact same thing before, and will likely do it again if they ever get the throne back.

Get used to it, drop any fanboyism or brand loyalty you may have. Those are just silly ideas when the two brands are massive corporations that act only to keep the profits going and shareholders happy. Buy what's convenient for you, end of the story.
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#18
windwhirl
seth1911Yeah im Fanboy of Intel with only Amd, for sure, such kind of an stupid human :sleep: :kookoo:
And for sure you either do not understand what "may" means or you should try not to speed-read things.
windwhirlGet used to it, drop any fanboyism or brand loyalty you may have.
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#20
ZoneDymo
seth1911Not speed read :oops:
speed reading or normal reading does not matter much when the comprehensive part never comes into play.
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#21
amarthar
It's kinda funny how an article about AMD talks mainly about Intel...
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#22
GURU7OF9
I should have just said, its been such a long hard road, with so many obstacles along the way, and an even harder road ahead, but geez they sure have done a great job so far !

CONGRATS 5 YEARS of RYZEN !
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#23
TheoneandonlyMrK
TheinsanegamerNAnd began selling their 6 core CPU for $300, a 90% price increase over their zen 2 6 core, for a 20% performance increase, promptly abandoning the low end market that had kept them alive for years. They also jacked up the price of their 8 core to $450, wiping out any potential perf/$ arguments, while refusing to support their older chipsets until public outcry forced them to backtrack and support X470. X300 users were still left with buggy beta firmware.

The student has become the master.
Seems like you are new to tech , whoever is on top has the top price since X86 inception and including all brands.
Regardless of public opinion.
Posted on Reply
#24
trieste15
seth1911Thats true thats the point why ill never buy AMD anymore.
I have only AMD APU till now Godavari for FM2+ but in future ill never buy anything from them.

Oligopol or Monopol fuck off :shadedshu:
Yes so you'll keep buying Intel until they become an unassailable monopoly and you'll never have cheap CPUs again.
windwhirlI hope you're also ready to relinquish any idea of having any x86 processor, because guess what:

Intel did the exact same thing before, and will likely do it again if they ever get the throne back.

Get used to it, drop any fanboyism or brand loyalty you may have. Those are just silly ideas when the two brands are massive corporations that act only to keep the profits going and shareholders happy. Buy what's convenient for you, end of the story.
When AMD was down, I saved my money until AMD came back up, and then paid for a Ryzen 3600.
If AMD had gone 6 feet under, I wouldn't know if I could have afforded a decent gaming computer... or maybe a mediocre 4-core one.

I can't say the same the same for laptops though... due to market dominance... but I don't expect many people to understand what this means.
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