Tuesday, January 11th 2022

AMD's Lisa Su Confirms Zen 4 is Using Optimised TSMC 5 nm Node, 2D and 3D chiplets

Anandtech asked AMD during a meeting at CES about the production nodes used to make its chips at TSMC and the importance of leading edge nodes for AMD to stay competitive, especially in light of the cost of using said nodes. Lisa Su confirmed in her answer to Anandtech that AMD is using an optimised high-performance 5 nm node for its upcoming Zen 4 processor chiplets, which there interestingly appears to be both 2D and 3D versions of. This is the first time we've heard a mention of two different chiplet types using the same architecture and it could mean that we get to see Zen 4 based CPUs with and without 3D cache.

What strikes us as a bit odd about the Anandtech article, is that they mention the fact that several of TSMC's customers are already making 4 nm and soon 3 nm chips and are questioning why AMD wouldn't want to be on these same nodes. It seems like Anandtech has forgotten that not all process nodes are universally applicable and just because you can make one type of chip on a smaller node, doesn't mean it'll be suitable for a different type of chip. For the longest of times, mobile SoCs or other similar chips seem to always have been among the first things being made on new nodes, with more complex things like GPUs and more advanced CPUs coming later, to tweaked versions of the specific node. The fact that TSMC has no less than three 7 nm nodes, should be reason enough to realise that the leading edge node might not be the ideal node for all types of chips.
In related news, TSMC is said to have accepted advanced payments of US$5.44 billion from at least 10 of its clients, of which AMD, Apple, Nvidia and Qualcomm are all mentioned. The payments have been done to secure production capacity, although for exactly how long time into the future isn't clear. TSMC saw advanced payments of US$3.8 billion in the first three quarters of last year and it's likely that these kinds of deals will continue as long as there's more demand than supply.
Sources: Anandtech, @dnystedt, WikiChip
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28 Comments on AMD's Lisa Su Confirms Zen 4 is Using Optimised TSMC 5 nm Node, 2D and 3D chiplets

#26
ratirt
Kohl BaasAFAIK, APUs are still monolithic, so no chiplets there...
And you know these 7000 series will be monolithic as well? From where you know this?
sillyconjunkieCrystal Ball......0

3DV for some number of skus not requiring an IO chiplet. ie..6 and 8 core. Multi-chiplet skus will all be non-3DV
Why not? From OP's info the chiplets will be with Vcache and without. And that comes from AMD's CEO.
Posted on Reply
#27
sillyconjunkie
ratirtAnd you know these 7000 series will be monolithic as well? From where you know this?

Why not? From OP's info the chiplets will be with Vcache and without. And that comes from AMD's CEO.
Correct. Both types of core chiplets but not IO chiplets. A few reasons..

Extra cache is not a fix-all.

Chiplets with 3DV will run hotter and require more power than those without.

Placing an IO chiplet with an entire layer of fill silicon (no 3D structure) just to work with 3DV core chiplets is hot mess of a bad idea.
Posted on Reply
#28
ratirt
sillyconjunkieCorrect. Both types of core chiplets but not IO chiplets. A few reasons..

Extra cache is not a fix-all.

Chiplets with 3DV will run hotter and require more power than those without.

Placing an IO chiplet with an entire layer of fill silicon (no 3D structure) just to work with 3DV core chiplets is hot mess of a bad idea.
Why would IO get a Vcache? I thought this is as clear as the sky the core chiplets get a Vcache only.
AMD is moving to a new node 5nm and adds a new improvement. It is not supposed to fix-all but rather improve performance. There is nothing to fix in my opinion. Zen4 will have also new cores and you have no idea of their power requirement thus you dont know if they will run hot or not.
You have no idea how the new Zen4 will work and what it offers. I'm tired of people turning their guesses or assumptions into facts.
Why would you say only the CPU without IO chiplet will get vcache?
Where are you getting this from btw?
Posted on Reply
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