Tuesday, May 3rd 2022

Club 3D Unveils PD 240W USB Type-C Cables

Club 3D is proud to present to you the next important step in USB-C technology. Less than a year after the official launch of the new USB Type-C Cable and Connector Specification Revision 2.1 and USB Power Delivery Specification 3.1, we can introduce the first 3 cables following the new standards.

The above just means: With our new cables it is possible to charge with up to 240 W, made possible by the Extended Power Range (EPR), which offers now up to 48 V voltage supply at a remaining 5 A. This is a huge step forward and will help f.e. to charge power hungry gaming notebooks and other devices who were suffering from the limitation of 100 W on previous standard.
Here are the products:
  • CAC-1573 USB2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable, Data 480 MB, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR, M/M 2 m/6.56ft
  • CAC-1575 USB4 Gen2x2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable 4K60Hz, Data 20 Gbps, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR, M/M 2 m/6.56ft
  • CAC-1576 USB4 Gen3 x2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable 8K60Hz, Data 40 Gbps, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR, M/M 1 m/3.28ft
All 3 products are already USB IF certified Cables and will be available by next week. For more information please read the detailed news below or click on the item codes above, to be directed to the respective product pages.

Club 3D USB2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable, Data 480 Mb, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR, M/M 2 m/6.56ft
The Club 3D CAC-1573 USB2.0 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable, Data 480Mb, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR, Extended Power Range M/M 2 m/6.56ft connects your Notebook, Tablet or Phone with USB Type-C output to your favorite existing Peripherals, Accessories and Chargers. It enables Data and Power over a single cable and both ways. This cable supports USB2.0 data up to 480 Mbps and up to 240 Watt (48 V/5 A) output for Downstream charging or powering your Notebook, Tablet or Smartphone.

Club 3D USB4 Gen2x2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable 4K60Hz, Data 20 Gbps, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR, M/M 2 m/6.56ft
The Club 3D CAC-1575 USB4 Gen2x2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable, Video up to 4K60Hz, Data 20 Gbps, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR, Extended Power Range M/M 2 m/6.56ft connects your Notebook, Tablet or Phone with USB4 Type-C output to your favorite existing Peripherals, Accessories and Chargers. It enables Video, Data and Power over a single cable and both ways. This cable supports USB4 Gen2x2 data up to 20 Gbps, Video up to 4K60Hz and up to 240 Watt (48 V/5 A) EPR (Extended Power Range) output for Downstream charging or powering your Notebook, Tablet or Smartphone.

Club 3D USB4 Gen3x2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable 8K60Hz, Data 40 Gbps, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR M/M 1 m/3.28ft
The Club 3D CAC-1576 USB4 Gen 3x2 Type-C Bi-Directional Cable 8K60Hz, Data 40 Gbps, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR M/M 1 m / 3.28ft connects your Notebook, Tablet or Phone with USB4 Type-C output to your favorite existing Peripherals, Accessories and Chargers. It enables Video,Data and Power over a single cable and both ways. This cable supports USB4 Gen 3x2 Type-C Bi-Directional Video 8K60Hz, Data 40 Gbps, PD 240 W (48 V/5 A) EPR M/M 1 m / 3.28ft output for Downstream charging or powering your Notebook, Tablet or Smartphone.
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36 Comments on Club 3D Unveils PD 240W USB Type-C Cables

#1
zlobby
Can't wait for when we'll need jumper cables for 'mobile devices'!

If it draws more than 100W it should remain stationary and use regular power cord.
Posted on Reply
#2
Tigger
I'm the only one
Wonder if them cables get warm
Posted on Reply
#3
Dredi
TiggerWonder if them cables get warm
Why would it? It’s the same amps as before.
Posted on Reply
#4
Tigger
I'm the only one
240w through a very thin cable seems a lot to me. though i suppose the internal PC power cable can supply more than that.
Posted on Reply
#5
Fishymachine
zlobbyCan't wait for when we'll need jumper cables for 'mobile devices'!

If it draws more than 100W it should remain stationary and use regular power cord.
If you mean "gaming" laptops than yeah, just pair a 3070/6800(XL) with a 5600X and throw it in a SFF case. But then again a creators' laptop (Dell XPS, Zenbook Duo, MBP) can saturate 180W, so I welcome Power Delivery 3.1
Posted on Reply
#6
zlobby
DrediWhy would it? It’s the same amps as before.
Same amps but voltage is doubled, so power also rises twice! And do tell me how amps stay the same with doubling the voltage? Yes, by increasing the resistance. And what does Joule says about that?

In general, if power rises, so does the heat!
Posted on Reply
#7
Valantar
Tigger240w through a very thin cable seems a lot to me. though i suppose the internal PC power cable can supply more than that.
240W is at 48V, so it's still just 5A - the same as current 100W USB-C chargers. PC PSUs transfer a lot more than 5A internally, though they also use more and thicker wires to do so since a) everything is still 12V, and b) unlike USB-C PD, that power transfer is entirely "dumb", with no real monitoring of cable losses or other potential issues.
zlobbySame amps but voltage is doubled, so power also rises twice! And do tell
So what? Cable losses are almost exclusively determined by the amperage passed through the wire (at any given wire gauge and length). There's a reason why long-distance power lines use thousands of volts - that way they can run much lower amperages and avoid needing meter-thick cables.
Posted on Reply
#8
zlobby
Valantar240W is at 48V, so it's still just 5A - the same as current 100W USB-C chargers. PC PSUs transfer a lot more than 5A internally, though they also use more and thicker wires to do so since a) everything is still 12V, and b) unlike USB-C PD, that power transfer is entirely "dumb", with no real monitoring of cable losses or other potential issues.


So what? Cable losses are almost exclusively determined by the amperage passed through the wire (at any given wire gauge and length). There's a reason why long-distance power lines use thousands of volts - that way they can run much lower amperages and avoid needing meter-thick cables.
You didn't let me finish my post.

Also, you're talking about the skin effect. Power lines are now exclusively AC. That's why they don't need extra thicc cable-chans.
Posted on Reply
#9
Valantar
zlobbyYou didn't let me finish my post.

Also, you're talking about the skin effect. Power lines are now exclusively AC. That's why they don't need extra thicc cable-chans.
... you posted it. It's not my responsibility to wait for your ninja edits. If you've got more to say, finish writing before you press "post reply".

Also, being AC is only part of that equation. Low voltage AC still needs thick cabling over long distances - it just happens to need thinner wires than DC would at the same distance.

As for the now-final (I hope?) form of your post above ... what? Increasing voltage in a circuit does not increase resistance - resistance is a physical characteristic of the circuit, of its materials and dimensions and physical construction.
Posted on Reply
#10
ixi
Club3d, better start reselling again gpu's with good cooling and new sector with mobos :D
Posted on Reply
#11
TheLostSwede
Tigger240w through a very thin cable seems a lot to me. though i suppose the internal PC power cable can supply more than that.
This is what the USB Type-C 2.1 connector spec says. (yes, there's a new-ish connector spec to go with this).
3.11 Extended Power Range (EPR) Cables
3.11.1 Electrical Requirements Extended Power Range cables have additional requirements to assure that these cables can deliver the full defined voltage and current range for USB PD EPR operation. EPR cables shall functionally support a reported 50 V and 5 A operation. The minimum functional voltage that a cable shall support is 53.65 V. The electrical components potentially in the path of VBUS in an EPR cable, e.g. bypass capacitors, should be minimally rated for 63 V. To control the impact of inductive kickback and ringing that can increase the chance of arcing between a USB Type-C plug and receptacle when a cable is removed while power is still applied, an EPR cable may include a snubber capacitor within the plug at each end of the cable. See Appendix H for more information.
3.11.2 EPR Cable Identification Requirements All EPR cables shall be Electronically Marked and include EPR-specific information in the eMarker as defined by the USB PD specification. As defined in the USB PD specification, EPR cables are marked as 50 V and 5 A capable. All EPR cables shall be visibly identified with EPR cable identification ic ons as defined by the USB-IF. This is required so that end users will be able to confirm visually that the cable supports up to as high of PDP = 240W as defined in the USB PD specification.
You'll have to download a zip file from the USB-IF if you want to read the full spec.
usb.org/document-library/usb-type-cr-cable-and-connector-specification-release-21
Posted on Reply
#12
trsttte
zlobbySame amps but voltage is doubled, so power also rises twice! And do tell me how amps stay the same with doubling the voltage? Yes, by increasing the resistance. And what does Joule says about that?

In general, if power rises, so does the heat!
Joule says he does not care because the current stays the same, power losses in a cable are R*I^squared , notice how there's no voltage there?
Valantarit just happens to need thinner wires than DC would at the same distance
Hmm does it though? I believe the requirement is the same for the same power (at the same voltage blablabla current is what heats), the AC would actually be the one needing a thicker "cable" in the form of extra isolation to handle peak voltage
Posted on Reply
#13
AnarchoPrimitiv
I'm curious to see the layout under the sheathing, and whether it's carrying the electrical over a single, solid core wire or a stranded wire....

It's pretty cool to see a 40Gbps USB4 cable, but I'm assuming this will be analogous to Thunderbolt 3/4, in reality it's 32Gbps for data and the 8Gbps is an accounting of bandwidth to carry DisplayPort over USB. I never liked how Thunderbolt 3/4 never conveyed that fact, and just left it open to interpretation that Tb3 could carry 40Gbps of data to, for example an external SSD or eGPU. BTW, does this mean that eGPUs could use USB4 now, or is there some other secret sauce that USB4 lacks versus Thunderbolt that won't allow it?

On another note, it's definitely past due for Thunderbolt 5 and the adoption of at least a PCIe 4.0x4 (64Gbps) link, but what would be better, especially for marketing, would be if Thunderbolt 5 adopts a PCIe 5.0x4 (128Gbps) link. With a PCIe 4.0x4 link, the eGPU bottleneck could be removed for many GPUs (I'm guess top end ones might still have a bottleneck), a new wave of PCIe 4.0 external SSDs and enclosures could be released.

PCIe 5.0x4 would allow for some crazy docks that could include integrated SATAIII and NVMe SSDs (even PCIe 4.0 drives), HDMI 2.1 ports, 10GBase-T ports (or 1/2.5/5/10 Multi-gig ports), even some niche products could have something like a QSFP+ port and allow for 25/40/50Gbps networking, and hopefully DisplayPort 2.0 is around the corner which will have 80Gbps of bandwidth in UBHR 20 spec. Personally, I think it'd be awesome to have a dock with a 2.5" SATAIII bay, an m.2 PCIe 4.0x4 bay, 10GBase-T, HDMI 2.1, USB4 (40Gbps) and a slew of USB3. 2 Gen2 (10Gbps ports). It'd be pretty cool to have a super slim ultra book with two hypothetical TB5 ports and have a dock like that to plug into.

Heck with a PCIe 5.0 128Gbps link you could have an eGPU with some serious additional I/O and never worry about bottlenecking the GPU, plus with all that bandwidth, I'm sure somebody would develop some applications we haven't even thought of yet
Posted on Reply
#14
Asni
The only difference between an old usb-c 100w* compatible cable and a new usb-c 240w compatible cable is the presence of capacitors inside the connectors to prevent them to create electric arc (due to higher voltage). But club 3d doesn't mention them.


*Despite already reaching 20v in the old 100w usb-c pd protocol.
Posted on Reply
#15
DeathtoGnomes
AnarchoPrimitivA few things will determine how well this cable works, for example, a solid core wire is a better conductor than stranded wire, the gauge, and it is the amperage that generates heat, so I would guess 5A shouldn't be too much. If it has all its certifications with respect to electricity, it should be good to go.
There are pros and cons of stranded wire vs solid core, it truly depends on the application. In a cable like these, stranded wire is preferred for the flexibility.
Posted on Reply
#16
TheLostSwede
AsniThe only difference between an old usb-c 100w* compatible cable and a new usb-c 240w compatible cable is the presence of capacitors inside the connectors to prevent them to create electric arc (due to higher voltage). But club 3d doesn't mention them.


*Despite already reaching 20v in the old 100w usb-c pd protocol.
That's factually incorrect.
A lot of things have changed, see link below.
plugable.com/blogs/news/what-is-240w-usb-extended-power-range-epr
Posted on Reply
#17
zlobby
Valantar... you posted it. It's not my responsibility to wait for your ninja edits. If you've got more to say, finish writing before you press "post reply".

Also, being AC is only part of that equation. Low voltage AC still needs thick cabling over long distances - it just happens to need thinner wires than DC would at the same distance.

As for the now-final (I hope?) form of your post above ... what? Increasing voltage in a circuit does not increase resistance - resistance is a physical characteristic of the circuit, of its materials and dimensions and physical construction.
I accidently pressed 'Post reply' before I finished the post. Being on mobile takes more time for me to edit and post the whole thing.
Seeing a post ending mid-sentance usually is a red flag.

As for the original argument - I'll just start a biiit back (with 6th grade physics classes).
Please, oh do please tell me how in a simple electrical circuit (power source, load, wires) you can have the same current while doubling the voltage, AND resistance staying the same? Pro tip - you can't. Nobody can't. That's not how it works.

If you can't grasp this, there is no sense to continue further.
Posted on Reply
#18
Valantar
AsniThe only difference between an old usb-c 100w* compatible cable and a new usb-c 240w compatible cable is the presence of capacitors inside the connectors to prevent them to create electric arc (due to higher voltage). But club 3d doesn't mention them.


*Despite already reaching 20v in the old 100w usb-c pd protocol.
@TheLostSwede links to some good stuff above, and one notable change that's worth pointing out is the redesign of the pins, pulling the power pins back slightly compared to the rest so that when inserting a cable you will always have a data connection before you get a power connection, which gives the controller ICs time to take measures to avoid arcing as well. If there's no voltage on the power pins when connected and disconnected, you won't have arcing either.
zlobbyI accidently pressed 'Post reply' before I finished the post. Being on mobile takes more time for me to edit and post the whole thing.
Seeing a post ending mid-sentance usually is a red flag.

As for the original argument - I'll just start a biiit back (with 6th grade physics classes).
Please, oh do please tell me how in a simple electrical circuit (power source, load, wires) you can have the same current while doubling the voltage, AND resistance staying the same? Pro tip - you can't. Nobody can't. That's not how it works.

If you can't grasp this, there is no sense to continue further.
... Resistance in the wire isn't the load in this circuit. The increased load is already there: a laptop requiring up to 240W of power. The increased load ("resistance", though PCs mostly aren't resistive loads) comes from the power draw of the PC, that is why the current doubles alongside the voltage without wiring resistance being affected.
Posted on Reply
#19
zlobby
Valantar@TheLostSwede links to some good stuff above, and one notable change that's worth pointing out is the redesign of the pins, pulling the power pins back slightly compared to the rest so that when inserting a cable you will always have a data connection before you get a power connection, which gives the controller ICs time to take measures to avoid arcing as well. If there's no voltage on the power pins when connected and disconnected, you won't have arcing either.


... Resistance in the wire isn't the load in this circuit. The increased load is already there: a laptop requiring up to 240W of power. The increased load ("resistance", though PCs mostly aren't resistive loads) comes from the power draw of the PC, that is why the current doubles alongside the voltage without wiring resistance being affected.
I usually don't leave thing unclarified but in this case - I can't even...
Posted on Reply
#20
Asni
TheLostSwedeThat's factually incorrect.
A lot of things have changed, see link below.
plugable.com/blogs/news/what-is-240w-usb-extended-power-range-epr
I think you did not read those (i mean both the article and my post). The article mentions the difference between the protocols, then the controller, not the cables.
The only difference in the cable is the capacitor

[B]EPR-compatible Cables[/B]

  • The original 5A rated cables are being deprecated
    • Eventually, original 20V/5A cables will no longer be certified by the USB-IF.
    • This is intended to move the market to a state where all 5A cables are EPR-capable
  • EPR cables must be visibly marked so that users can identify cable support of up to 240W in order to be certified (previously optional)
  • Along with the e-marker change, the bypass capacitor in a USB cable has a new minimum voltage rating (30V->63V) which may change its size
    • The higher voltage could have an impact on insulation in cables
Posted on Reply
#21
Valantar
zlobbyI usually don't leave thing unclarified but in this case - I can't even...
You're presenting this as if it's a simple circuit - say, a light bulb on two wires. It isn't; instead it's a highly complex circuit with multiple stages of AC-DC and DC-DC conversion, complex and dynamic loads that are mainly capacitive but also resistive, etc. So, for your question of how to describe this as a simple circuit: we have a DC source, two wires, and a load. In example A, the load is 100W and the DC voltage is 20V, leading to 5A current. In example B, the load is 240W and the DC voltage is 48V, meaning again 5A current. In either case, resistance in the wires is (unless the wires are very poorly made) negligible, leading to a minor voltage drop at worst. And, as resistance is an inherent physical trait of the materials, connections and construction of the conductors, it does not change if the other variables are changed. R for a given circuit is fixed; doubling U halves I, halving I doubles I. Doubling the load (which is then a new circuit) requires doubling U to maintain I at the same level. This really isn't difficult. And, to reiterate, R in the case of a charger-laptop circuit isn't resistance in the wiring, as that is utterly negligible compared to the load from the laptop.
AsniI think you did not read those (i mean both the article and my post). The article mentions the difference between the protocols, then the controller, not the cables.
The only difference in the cable is the capacitor

[B]EPR-compatible Cables[/B]

  • The original 5A rated cables are being deprecated
    • Eventually, original 20V/5A cables will no longer be certified by the USB-IF.
    • This is intended to move the market to a state where all 5A cables are EPR-capable
  • EPR cables must be visibly marked so that users can identify cable support of up to 240W in order to be certified (previously optional)
  • Along with the e-marker change, the bypass capacitor in a USB cable has a new minimum voltage rating (30V->63V) which may change its size
    • The higher voltage could have an impact on insulation in cables
That's still not true - the connectors are also changed. To quote Anandtech's coverage when this spec first launched:
Arcing is possible during unplug operations, and this is being mitigated by length differences between the CC and VBUS pins (allowing the detection of disconnect events early enough to get the source to reduce the current prior to the full disconnection). A snubber capacitor at either cable end is recommended to help with this feature.
Posted on Reply
#22
trsttte
zlobbyPlease, oh do please tell me how in a simple electrical circuit (power source, load, wires) you can have the same current while doubling the voltage, AND resistance staying the same? Pro tip - you can't. Nobody can't. That's not how it works.
What are you even saying!? Of course the load and voltage changed, it's now 240W and the voltage is 48V . The resistance in the cable is the same (given the same-ish cable), the current also stays the same (P = V * I, double power and double voltage = same current), so cable heat losses stay the same as well ( Ploss = R* I^square).
Posted on Reply
#23
TheLostSwede
AsniI think you did not read those (i mean both the article and my post). The article mentions the difference between the protocols, then the controller, not the cables.
The only difference in the cable is the capacitor

[B]EPR-compatible Cables[/B]

  • The original 5A rated cables are being deprecated
    • Eventually, original 20V/5A cables will no longer be certified by the USB-IF.
    • This is intended to move the market to a state where all 5A cables are EPR-capable
  • EPR cables must be visibly marked so that users can identify cable support of up to 240W in order to be certified (previously optional)
  • Along with the e-marker change, the bypass capacitor in a USB cable has a new minimum voltage rating (30V->63V) which may change its size
    • The higher voltage could have an impact on insulation in cables
Except it clearly isn't again.
As @Valantar pointed out, changes were made the physical connector as well.
On top of that, even the USB 2.0 cables now require the E-Marker chip, which wasn't a requirement for USB 2.0 cables previously.
So no, it's not "just" a capacitor that has changed.
Posted on Reply
#24
greybulut
Please keep arguing. It is so informative and fun to read... :)
Posted on Reply
#25
DeathtoGnomes
trsttteThe resistance in the cable is the same (given the same-ish cable)
Resistance is insignificant per foot, its actually measured per 1000 feet, we're talking less than .1 ohm per foot. I'm gonna guess that there is 28 guage wire wire in these cables, that works out to about 65 ohms per 1000 feet. Most commercial use wire is not pure copper anymore. That plus the size of wire, and length, temperature affect resistance, but its still minimal.

Current affects wire moreso than resistance, its movement causes the wire to heat up, and increases resistance, BUT it still does not affect resistance as much as you are implying. Which is why only load is measured in a circuit.
Posted on Reply
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