DarkholmPlease correct me if I'm mistaken.
New X870E is X670E with USB4 controller. B850 is B650E and B840 is B650. And we will have a small 20% price hike so if you would like post code debug display on-board which costs 3 cents, you will have to buy at least B850 board for lets say €400 as a midrange.
I think I will stay with AM4 and B550-E for a long long time.

B840 is A620.

Tek-CheckI looked at it yesterday. It reads that P2P IP networking is natively supported. On Windows 11 forum there are specific screenshots of IP networking drivers in device manager. It shows 20 Gbps of network traffic.

I was also puzzled by actual USB4 data mode. The wording of the spec of ASM4242 on their website suggests that the controller provides USB4 Gen 3 x 2 bandwidth for data traffic, mostly tunnelled, including up to USB 3.2 20 Gbps.

There is no mention that USB4 native data traffic is supported at 40 Gbps, unless I missed something obvious.

This might help explain it some more.
semiengineering.com/upgrade-your-soc-design-with-usb4-ip/

Also
t-2-m.com/semiconductor-ip-core/interface-usb-4-device-host-controller-silicon-proven-ip

As for the networking capabilities, maybe that has changed, but a certain company wanted to keep that thunderbolt exclusive.

Tek-CheckMany bigger boards still have 6 or 8 SATA ports

On AM5, I see only 14 boards with 6xSATA and two with 8xSATA. Of the 8xSATA-boards, the X670E Taichi deliveres 4 Porets by Asmedia-controllers and the MSI Godlike 6. Of the 6xSATA boards, seven MSI deliver two ports by ASM1061, three of them X670-boards. Only the Carbon delivers 6 ports from the PCH. On the two Gigabyte-boards with 6xSATA, two ports are shared witch a PCIe x2-slot.

It looks much better on Intel Z790 but even here, more than 4xSATA has become much rarer than with Z690.

LabRat 891Ex. those PROM21 x4 Add-In cards ASRock showed off, really tickled my fancy.

Mine too, at first, until I realized it wastes a precious PCIe x4-slot. Modern GPUs don't leave space for more than 2-3 usable slots.

Tek-CheckIf anyone wants even more, which is rarely the case, there are boards maximizing the connectivity and x4 AICs with USB4, SATA, NVMe, etc. Research also shows that the usage of secondary x8 GPU slot is low. And Gigabyte got rid off it.

See above. There are only two AM5-boards with two x4-Slots from PCH, very few with one x4 and one x1 and none with two x4 and one x1. It is a shame they decided to dirch the x8-slot in this gen. You could have put the GPU in one x8-Slot, two Gen5-SSD in the other x8 and two in the Gen5-M.2-slots.

Tek-CheckAsrock and Asus more often than not have two x16 slots, running at x8 idmf both are occupied, for those who need more connectivity.

Wrong, there are only seven AM5 boards with a Gen5x8 (and none with a Gen4x8), only one from Asrock (Taichi) and two from Asus (Hero and Creator).

csendesmarkIt would be nice to see the 10Gbps LAN became standard... beside USB4

TheLostSwede5 Gbps is likely to be be next step. The simple reason for this is power efficiency. 2.5 and 5 Gbps Ethernet is a lot less power hungry compared to 10 Gbps so far.
Then there's cost as well and with Realtek now having a low-cost 5 Gbps part which will be sub $5 vs Marvell/Aquantia at $20-25 for a 10 Gbps chip... You do the math.

I think so, too. I wonder why Intel has not yet released a 5GbE-only NIC and I always wondered why everybody apart from QNAP ignored Quantias 5GbE-NIC, but I bet they sell us 5GbE before 10GbE. Only thing speaking against that is WiFi7-routers often having 1-2 10GbE-ports. But the realtek-NIC and PHY should make 5GbE-switches more affordable than 10GbE, like it did with 2.5GbE.

Tek-CheckI looked at it yesterday. It reads that P2P IP networking is natively supported. On Windows 11 forum there are specific screenshots of IP networking drivers in device manager. It shows 20 Gbps of network traffic.

It's the same with TB3/4. It says 20Gbps, but will only deliver 10Gbps at best. Handy if your devices allready have TB or USB4, but if your main goal is a fast connection between devices, 10GbE or 25GbE is better.

AusWolfI'm wondering what some of you use all those drives for so that the PCI-e lanes offered by B650/B850 aren't enough.

I have two 2 TB nvme drives: one for games, the other for the OS. For storage, I have a 4 and an 8 TB spinner, which is plenty (I think), and I still have 2 SATA ports left empty. Oh, I also have an 8 TB external hard drive, but that doesn't count.

Solidigm P41+s in the Gen4x1 slots, Navi24 in the x570 Gen4x4, Vega10 in the x16.
Thinking about yanking the Type E/A WiFi+BT and adapt-riser the x1 lane to my Xonar Essence STX I was sad to pull (for P41+s).

TigerfoxOn AM5, I see only 14 boards with 6xSATA and two with 8xSATA.

- 16 boards with more than 4 SATA ports is plenty of choices
- there are dirt cheap SATA adaptors for anyone who needs more. It has never been as easy to add a few SATA ports
- relatively less SATA ports stems from the shift towards NVMe and external storage, such as NAS, cloud and other devices
- there is less need for more SATA drives as drive capacities have increased a lot
- it's enough to connect 1-2 traditional HDDs with 10-20 TB for all files, whereas in the past we used to load PCs with more drives that have less capacity

TigerfoxIt is a shame they decided to dirch the x8-slot in this gen.

Then you don't buy Gigabyte. If they do not sell enough, they might rethink their approach. My last Gigabyte board was Z68

TigerfoxYou could have put the GPU in one x8-Slot, two Gen5-SSD in the other x8 and two in the Gen5-M.2-slots.

You can do this on those seven boards that you mentioned. Plenty of choices. Intel will not have this option even on Arrow Lake.

TigerfoxIt's the same with TB3/4. It says 20Gbps, but will only deliver 10Gbps at best. Handy if your devices allready have TB or USB4, but if your main goal is a fast connection between devices, 10GbE or 25GbE is better.

Yes. I have both TB ports on multiple devices and 10 GbE switch. Enough for a few years.
More mainstream boards will move to 5 GbE in the next gen chipsets and a few more boards will have 10 GbE. It comes drop by drop as majority of people simply do not use as much bandwidth. Heck, most TVs and AV receivers still have 100 Mbps ports and you can bring more in unlikely case of need for more bandwidth for streaming via USB port adapter.

AusWolfThat's why I went with B650. X670 brings me no benefit whatsoever. I'm not interested in PCI-e Gen 5, either.

Almost no one in the world needs PCIe 5.0 on client devices, apart from a handful of Gen5 SSD enthusiasts. And those terrible passive heatsinks... Gosh... those look like monstrocities in the motherboard. Gen5 GPUs will not be widely available until nect year, so Gen5 GPUs slots have been 'gathering dust' since 2021...

AusWolfDouble of the same silicon saves money on the R&D side of things, I guess (you only make one design instead of two). Just like with chiplets, it is meant to benefit AMD, not us.

It benefits both sides. Connectivity on motherboards has never been as fast and advanced. The deeper you go into past chipsets, the less lanes for connectivity.

AnotherReaderLet's wait for the reviews before condemning them. With Zen 4, despite focusing on clock speed, AMD managed a respectable increase in average IPC. I would expect Zen 5 to do better than that on the IPC front, but I don't expect much increase in clocks which are already pretty high. I would be pleasantly surprised if they managed to increase clock speed by 5%.

Well... it's certainly going to be more interesting than Raptor Lake refresh "generation"

TigerfoxI think so, too. I wonder why Intel has not yet released a 5GbE-only NIC and I always wondered why everybody apart from QNAP ignored Quantias 5GbE-NIC, but I bet they sell us 5GbE before 10GbE. Only thing speaking against that is WiFi7-routers often having 1-2 10GbE-ports. But the realtek-NIC and PHY should make 5GbE-switches more affordable than 10GbE, like it did with 2.5GbE.

I can answer this. Aquantia's 5 Gbps solution was a castrated 10 Gbps chip and the price difference wasn't enough to make it appealing to consumers. An add-in card had a $10-15 price difference. The new Realtek chips you're looking at double the chip cost compared to their 2.5 Gbps solutions, making the total chip price less than the price difference between the old Aquantia 10 Gbps and 5 Gbps chips. Not sure what Marvell is charging for the more recent parts, so I can't really say how competitive those are.

Tek-Check- 16 boards with more than 4 SATA ports is plenty of choices

16 of ~130 isn't plenty by any means. There are more thand double that number on Z790.

Tek-Check- there are dirt cheap SATA adaptors for anyone who needs more. It has never been as easy to add a few SATA ports

See previous post, very few AM5-boards have more than two PCIe-slots from PCH, some don't at all. You don't want to waste those on SATA! I used an M.2-card with 6xSATA@PCIe3.0x2 (ASM1164). Plus, it's annoying to have to go to such lenght for something that was standard up till now.

Tek-Check- relatively less SATA ports stems from the shift towards NVMe and external storage, such as NAS, cloud and other devices

I get that many don't need more than one SSD at all, but I don't get why many need so many SSD at all. You don't store cold data on SSD.

Tek-Check- there is less need for more SATA drives as drive capacities have increased a lot
- it's enough to connect 1-2 traditional HDDs with 10-20 TB for all files, whereas in the past we used to load PCs with more drives that have less capacity

RAID? I have about 44TB in six drives, most of them filled. I would have to pay >600€ to replace the old drives.

Tek-CheckThen you don't buy Gigabyte

I didn't, but look above, only 7 boards.

Tek-CheckYou can do this on those seven boards that you mentioned. Plenty of choices. Intel will not have this option even on Arrow Lake.

7 out of ~130 is not plenty!

Tek-CheckHeck, most TVs and AV receivers still have 100 Mbps ports and you can bring more in unlikely case of need for more bandwidth for streaming via USB port adapter.

You can plug a USB-NIC into a smart-TV or AVR?

TigerfoxYou can plug a USB-NIC into a smart-TV or AVR?

Generally no, as the device has to be supported on a driver level and very few devices have support for USB dongles that provide Ethernet.

DV2FOXWhat they must do is also add TWO USB 3.2 headers along the Type C header into any newer motherboard. That way people who gets a tower with 4 USB 3.2 + Type C ports will be able to plug it all in without having limitations (Like the "Be Quiet! DARK BASE PRO 901").

Two USB-C 20 Gbps headers are not necessary for front I/O, as one USA-C 20 Gbps port is already used at the rear I/O.
I have Fractal Define 7 with 5 front ports, like Dark Base Pro 901 below, and all 5 ports are served well, 2x USB 2.0, 2x USB5 and USB-C.

What they can do on more advanced boards in future is to finally bring 40 Gbps USB4 port to the front I/O, so that we don't need to use the rear one with awkward cable hanging around to connect external SSDs or other devices.

TheLostSwedeGenerally no, as the device has to be supported on a driver level and very few devices have support for USB dongles that provide Ethernet.

So, what did @Tek-Check mean by that?

Tek-CheckHeck, most TVs and AV receivers still have 100 Mbps ports and you can bring more in unlikely case of need for more bandwidth for streaming via USB port adapter.

TheLostSwedeAquantia's 5 Gbps solution was a castrated 10 Gbps chip and the price difference wasn't enough to make it appealing to consumers. An add-in card had a $10-15 price difference.

You are right, while 2.5GbE starts at 20€ here in Germany, 10GbE starts at 80€ and the 5GbE-PCIe-NIC from QNAP I mentioned is slightly above 80€. AQC111C (5GbE) is PCIe3.0x1 and 8x8mm with 100-pin FCBGA while AQC113 (10GbE) ist Gen3x4, 12x14mm with 224-pin FCBGA. I don't know the size, but RTL8125 is 48-pin, while Intel i226 is 7x7mm.

TigerfoxYou are right, while 2.5GbE starts at 20€ here in Germany, 10GbE starts at 80€ and the 5GbE-PCIe-NIC from QNAP I mentioned is slightly above 80€. AQC111C (5GbE) is PCIe3.0x1 and 8x8mm with 100-pin FCBGA while AQC113 (10GbE) ist Gen3x4, 12x14mm with 224-pin FCBGA. I don't know the size, but RTL8125 is 48-pin, while Intel i226 is 7x7mm.

I'm talking chip pricing though, not finished retail products.
Courtesy of Intel, we know that the I226-V costs US$2.87 in bulk, most likely even less for the motherboard makers and Realtek will be cheaper than that.
ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/210599/intel-ethernet-controller-i226-v.html

So the Realtek 2.5 Gbps parts are most likely sub $2 and I was told at Computex that Realtek is expecting their 5 Gbps chips to be around $5 a pop. The old Aquantia parts were $25+.

Tigerfox16 of ~130 isn't plenty by any means. There are more thand double that number on Z790.

Irrelevant. Even if there are 200 boards, there are still 16 to choose from. Plenty for someone who has such specific need for more SATA ports. If they don't like any of those and don't wish to play with AICs and adapters, they can always buy any of Intel boards that offer what they need. No brainer.

Hardly anyone in the world ever maxes out on all available ports. Again, it had been said many times that it has never been as easy to add any adapter or AIC for more connectivity for those who need it. No reason to be hot-headed about this. There is no case here to win or lose one's head over 1-2 SATA ports. A non-topic.

TigerfoxRAID? I have about 44TB in six drives, most of them filled. I would have to pay >600€ to replace the old drives

Nowadays, such large arrays are often offloaded to NAS. I have one with 24 TB on two disks. Smaller storage is often portable too. Plus cloud. There are so many storage options that 1-2 SATA ports less on some motherboards is completely insignificant. Those who want more will make it happen in one way or another.

Tigerfox7 out of ~130 is not plenty!

It is for those who need such features. You have 7 choices for fast connectivity features that have never existed before in the history of mainstream PC. A little bit of humility, please. Most PC users do not need such premium features, therefore motherboard manufacturers will not waste their time with it on many designs. Less is more.

If anyone needs significantly more connectivity, we also have next tier, HEDT and workstation boards. Also, there's an option for crowd-funding for enough big group of users who need specific solutions. If there were only 2 options, I'd grant that it's limited, but it's still not one or none. When I was looking for a new board, I wanted Thunderbolt 4 dual port on AMD AM4 ATX board. There was none... until Pro Art B550 came out. And I bought it. One single board with what I want! Amazing! Sure, you can say that glass is half empty, but it's also half full at the same time. Something to be appreciated.

TigerfoxYou can plug a USB-NIC into a smart-TV or AVR?

Yes, USB2.0 adapter, like this one. You get ~300 Mbps. But again, very niche, almost no one in the world needs it apart from a few geeks tinkering with a handful of files with bit rate above 100 Mbps. For 4K streaming of audio-video content, 100 Mbps LAN ports are enough. Pragmatic engineers don't like to be wasteful. Besides, WiFi on TV is faster, need there be. Even some AVRs that costs $6,000-7,000 have old 100 Mbps ports. Nothing unusual if you are aware of the fact how content distribution and bit rate work on those devices.

TheLostSwedeNot sure if any of you remember this old leak, but this is pretty much X870E. Obviously this says PCIe Gen4 in a lot of places, which since this was leaked, we know is Gen 5.

I remember this one. Interestingly, none of board vendors have introduced one single board with DP 2.1 port at 40 Gbps from Zen4 iGPU. There is always more capability within CPUs than board vendors are willing to expose. If I am not mistaken, only Asrock exposed HDMI 2.1 FRL ports from iGPU at 32 Gbps and perhaps one Gigabyte board. Everybody else use old HDMI 2.0 at 18 Gbpps, which does not work with 4K/60Hz 10-bit RGB image and above on monitors, which needs ~20 Gbps over minimum FRL3 signalling.

TheLostSwedePricing was meant to be much lower originally, but everyone jacked them up due to increased shipping cost, increased material costs and what not. From Computex to launch that year, most boards went up by US$50 compared to the pricing I was given at Computex by one manufacturer.

It's complicated. Several new technologies were introduced, such as PCIe 5.0 and DDR5. Initially, materials and parts for new technologies are more expensive. Plus, let's not pretend that the global pandemic did not occur. It pludged many parts of the world into inflationary spiral whereby prices of most goods went up, especially energy, plus stagnating wages in many sectors, with lower increase than inflation rate. To be honest, my bread, milk and butter went up more in price than most new gen motherboards. My electricity and gas bills went much higher than motherboard prices. So, it's all relative.

Icon CharlieI would not worry too much actually. That chipset and series will be valid for years to come.

yeah it's just a bit of a boomer cause "not the newest and shiniest" thing xD

It's only that way with pc's now that I think about it

TheLostSwedeThis might help explain it some more.

Thanks. The article you gave me reads: "In USB4 mode, [device...] uses USB4 [bandwidth of data highway] to connect to a PCIe 4.0 embedded endpoint using tunneled PCIe. This mode enables the [device...] to take advantage of a low latency direct memory access (DMA) connection to the host system memory. In USB 3.x mode, this [device...] connects to the USB host using either legacy USB streaming (isochronous) or bulk traffic."

This is what I was confused about, but now I hope I get it. USB4 v1.0 does not support USB4 tunneling. Native USB4 tunneling is dubbed "USB3 Gen T 10-80 Gbps" for USB4 v2.0 spec.

Current host controller ASM4242 cannot be fed by native USB4 data lanes from CPU or chipset, as there is no such provision on ASM4242. The host controller data feeders on the motherboard are three types of native lanes: USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 at 20Gbps, PCIe 4x4 at 64 Gbps and DP 1.4 up to 32 Gbps. There is no "USB4 IN" sort to speak, like DP IN. I am skipping here Alt Mode support for the simpicity and focus on tunneling only.

So, in USB4 mode, USB data traffic cannot be tunneled at 40 Gbps as the v1.0 spec does not support more than 20 Gbps of USB tunelling.
Imagine future ASM8484. Such controller will have "USB3 Gen T 10-80 Gbps" feeder lanes or "USB4 IN" once CPUs and/or chipsets natively support USB4 Gen 3 x2 at 40 Gbps and Gen4 at 80 Gbps. This is the moment when 'USB4 tunnelling' will be possible. If so, Phoenix and future APUs, with integrated USB4, could directly provide "USB4 IN" lanes for such tunneling to occur, alongside DP and PCIe data within 80 Gbps data highway.

Have I got this right?

Here is info about USB4-NET for P2P networking at 10 Gbps. It looks like Intel is not exclusive with this feature on TB.
learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/component-guidelines/usb4-interdomain-connections

Hoping to see 2 independent 2x16 PCIE 5.0 slots on some of these boards.

AnotherReaderLet's wait for the reviews before condemning them. With Zen 4, despite focusing on clock speed, AMD managed a respectable increase in average IPC. I would expect Zen 5 to do better than that on the IPC front, but I don't expect much increase in clocks which are already pretty high. I would be pleasantly surprised if they managed to increase clock speed by 5%.

No increase in clocks at all, actually possibly a slight regression, but nothing like Arrow Lakes extreme clock speed regression down to mid to high 4GHz.

529thHoping to see 2 independent 2x16 PCIE 5.0 slots on some of these boards.

We already have several boards with such ports from Asrock, Asus and MSI that would work in x8 mode is both slots are occupied.

AnotherReaderWith Zen 4, despite focusing on clock speed, AMD managed a respectable increase in average IPC. I would expect Zen 5 to do better than that on the IPC front, but I don't expect much increase in clocks which are already pretty high. I would be pleasantly surprised if they managed to increase clock speed by 5%.

Zen3 to Zen4, a full node shrink, AMD managed to increase clock by 800 MHz, which was a lot.
Now, going to N4, they should be able to achieve ~6 GHz, which would be 5%. It's fine.

Tek-CheckZen3 to Zen4, a full node shrink, AMD managed to increase clock by 800 MHz, which was a lot.
Now, going to N4, they should be able to achieve ~6 GHz, which would be 5%. It's fine.

On the single-thread momentary turbo clock for a couple of milliseconds, maybe. It'll be a long while before we see proper 6 GHz chips from either company, if at all.

Tek-CheckI remember this one. Interestingly, none of board vendors have introduced one single board with DP 2.1 port at 40 Gbps from Zen4 iGPU. There is always more capability within CPUs than board vendors are willing to expose. If I am not mistaken, only Asrock exposed HDMI 2.1 FRL ports from iGPU at 32 Gbps and perhaps one Gigabyte board. Everybody else use old HDMI 2.0 at 18 Gbpps, which does not work with 4K/60Hz 10-bit RGB image and above on monitors, which needs ~20 Gbps over minimum FRL3 signalling.

It's all about cost and I guess the motherboard makers aren't expecting anyone buying these boards to use the iGPU.

Tek-CheckIt's complicated. Several new technologies were introduced, such as PCIe 5.0 and DDR5. Initially, materials and parts for new technologies are more expensive. Plus, let's not pretend that the global pandemic did not occur. It pludged many parts of the world into inflationary spiral whereby prices of most goods went up, especially energy, plus stagnating wages in many sectors, with lower increase than inflation rate. To be honest, my bread, milk and butter went up more in price than most new gen motherboards. My electricity and gas bills went much higher than motherboard prices. So, it's all relative.

It honestly doesn't relate to that. As I said, I was given pricing from one motherboard manufacturer at Computex and they jacked upp all the board prices by $50 or so between then and shipping. Some of it was blamed on the compeition having higher prices, some of it was blamed on increased costs to ship etc.

Tek-CheckThanks. The article you gave me reads: "In USB4 mode, [device...] uses USB4 [bandwidth of data highway] to connect to a PCIe 4.0 embedded endpoint using tunneled PCIe. This mode enables the [device...] to take advantage of a low latency direct memory access (DMA) connection to the host system memory. In USB 3.x mode, this [device...] connects to the USB host using either legacy USB streaming (isochronous) or bulk traffic."

This is what I was confused about, but now I hope I get it. USB4 v1.0 does not support USB4 tunneling. Native USB4 tunneling is dubbed "USB3 Gen T 10-80 Gbps" for USB4 v2.0 spec.

Current host controller ASM4242 cannot be fed by native USB4 data lanes from CPU or chipset, as there is no such provision on ASM4242. The host controller data feeders on the motherboard are three types of native lanes: USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 at 20Gbps, PCIe 4x4 at 64 Gbps and DP 1.4 up to 32 Gbps. There is no "USB4 IN" sort to speak, like DP IN. I am skipping here Alt Mode support for the simpicity and focus on tunneling only.

So, in USB4 mode, USB data traffic cannot be tunneled at 40 Gbps as the v1.0 spec does not support more than 20 Gbps of USB tunelling.
Imagine future ASM8484. Such controller will have "USB3 Gen T 10-80 Gbps" feeder lanes or "USB4 IN" once CPUs and/or chipsets natively support USB4 Gen 3 x2 at 40 Gbps and Gen4 at 80 Gbps. This is the moment when 'USB4 tunnelling' will be possible. If so, Phoenix and future APUs, with integrated USB4, could directly provide "USB4 IN" lanes for such tunneling to occur, alongside DP and PCIe data within 80 Gbps data highway.

Have I got this right?

Here is info about USB4-NET for P2P networking at 10 Gbps. It looks like Intel is not exclusive with this feature on TB.
learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/component-guidelines/usb4-interdomain-connections

Sorry, but why would you need to tunnel the native interface? USB4 tunnels non native interfaces.

TigerfoxThe problem is space on the board rather than lanes. With a modern GPU, that blocks 3-5 slots, there isn't much room left for PCIe-slots usable for AIC/soundcards/Storage-controllers/10GbE/videocapture/USB4/TB4.

Very low profile, angled riser cables apparently exist but sure they aren't easy to find, even if you find this inelegant solution acceptable.

www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?21901412430748

@Tek-Check That would mean they are not independent.

dgianstefaniI mean, my current X670E mobo already has two USB4 ports, so hopefully there's also other improvements or the refresh is pretty boring.

Mandating it is good I suppose, but surely there's more interesting stuff to improve.

Thunderbolt 4? WiFi 7? Better memory traces?

I currently have a ASRock B650E PG Riptide WiFi motherboard. Usually I prefer to buy slightly higher end motherboards but the overall pricing of these AM5 boards lead to a compromise on my part.

FWIW, I always assumed that such boards would easily support Thunderbolt 4 add-in cards or USB4 add-in cards. Therefore if a user really needed TB4 or USB4 it would be an option (not to suggest that TB4 and USB4 are the same or equivalent).

So yeah, ideally there would be more to X800 series chip sets like the X870E than just mandatory USB4.

TheLostSwedeSorry, but why would you need to tunnel the native interface? USB4 tunnels non native interfaces.

Well, if you send native USB4 and any other data at the same time, PCIe and/or DP, all protocols need to be tunneled together, right?
USB4 website reads that this is supported: "Tunneled USB3 Gen T (10–80 Gbit/s)"
"The USB4 2.0 specification named this USB3 Gen X tunneling and introduced optional support for a new USB3 Gen T tunneling that extends the USB3 protocol to be able to use the maximum available bandwidth."

So, in theory, USB4 data at 40 Gbps from CPU/PCH could be tunneled within USB4 mode of 80 Gbps together with DP and PCIe data, right?

529th@Tek-Check That would mean they are not independent.

Could you develop this, please?

OctaveanI currently have a ASRock B650E PG Riptide WiFi motherboard. Usually I prefer to buy slightly higher end motherboards but the overall pricing of these AM5 boards lead to a compromise on my part.

Except that X670 isn't any higher end than your B650. It's literally the same chipset, just two of them for slightly better connectivity. Don't be deceived by stupid model numbers. ;)

AusWolfExcept that X670 isn't any higher end than your B650. It's literally the same chipset, just two of them for slightly better connectivity. Don't be deceived by stupid model numbers. ;)

With respect to higher end I was referring more or less to the end user experience. For example, while Thunderbolt 4 or USB4 would be nice it’s less of a concern for my immediate use case then just having enough USB 3.x ports on the rear IO. The ASRock B650E PG Riptide WiFi has something like 6 USB 2.0 ports or more in the rear. I mean 2 or so USB 2.0 ports in the rear is fine but 6+ ?

AusWolfExcept that X670 isn't any higher end than your B650. It's literally the same chipset, just two of them for slightly better connectivity. Don't be deceived by stupid model numbers. ;)

It's not about high-end but about more versatile connectivity for those who need it. Both X670 and B650 chipsets could be on high-end, mid-range or entry platforms, depending on implemented features and quality of design too.

If you compare those the two chipsets, let's take two Taichi boards, you will see more connectivity options on PCIe, NVMe, SATA, USB4, etc on X670. If I do not need more connectivity, I'd buy B650. If I need more, I'd buy X670. Price, of course, also plays role.