🙄 One cannot disdain Nintendo enough...
I'm apparently a very rare person in having absolutely nearly* no nostalgic or other sentimental attachment to the company. On that note-
I really hope Nintendo manages to figure out a way to upset their most-adherent fans -ala Sony's discontinuation of physical media and open disregard to the mere concept of 'ownership'.

*I just remembered how awesome the R4 Cart. was on my NDS lite. -how I first played Chrono Trigger

LabRat 891🙄 One cannot disdain Nintendo enough...
I'm apparently a very rare person in having absolutely nearly* no nostalgic or other sentimental attachment to the company. On that note-
I really hope Nintendo manages to figure out a way to upset their most-adherent fans -ala Sony's discontinuation of physical media and open disregard to the mere concept of 'ownership'.

*I just remembered how awesome the R4 Cart. was on my NDS lite. -how I first played Chrono Trigger

Can't really blame Nintendo. They go after emulators of consoles that are still for sale. You also remove anything that tries to eat your own made cake.

Wonder if it would be better than Ryubing.

LabRat 891🙄 One cannot disdain Nintendo enough...
I'm apparently a very rare person in having absolutely nearly* no nostalgic or other sentimental attachment to the company. On that note-
I really hope Nintendo manages to figure out a way to upset their most-adherent fans -ala Sony's discontinuation of physical media and open disregard to the mere concept of 'ownership'.

*I just remembered how awesome the R4 Cart. was on my NDS lite. -how I first played Chrono Trigger

What did they do wrong here? I mean one of the emulator developers was literally bragging that they cracked and was distributing tears of the kingdom before the official release date of the game itself, which means they were engaging in piracy. All modern emulators are breaking encryption of current gen systems.

Emulators should only exist for systems that are no longer being sold.

Let3rWonder if it would be better than Ryubing.

For now Ryujinx (and based) are usually more accurate than yuzu (and based), but it comes at being hesvier to run. yuzu (and based) in the other hand tend to have more optimizations and have more customization for certain features, can be a bit less stable.

As development of projects continue and new projects arise in the future, that could change however.

I'm thinking they're pulling an UltraHLE where the developer released the emulator and then vanished in fear of Nintendo. From the sounds of it, the Suyu developers may have unlocked the ability to have decompiled Switch games. Can you imagine games like BOTW and TOTK running natively on PC? Mario Kart Wii is already working natively on PC. Since Suyu is open source, that means they left Pandora's box open.


Yep, I was right.

EMU is POS , it crashes with install of ANY firmware, stick to EDEN for now and pray that EDEN uses in future ALL gr8 stuff they made in SUYU!

Played all of TOTK with Ryujinx, it ran awesome, don't even remember a single crash. Love the name Suyu it's a shame to see the efforts archived. I liked Nintendo when I was a kid (mainly for Zelda games) but they have been massively superseded by the masterpiece Dark Souls trilogy and similar games that have much better third person combat, exploration, lore, ARPG features, build variety, itemization, replayability, online features like jolly coop and pvp, are cross-platform, runs better, etc. Nintendo can get f****d with all their lawsuits and low spec hardware.

HakkerCan't really blame Nintendo. They go after emulators of consoles that are still for sale. You also remove anything that tries to eat your own made cake.

CraptacularEmulators should only exist for systems that are no longer being sold.

Emulators are community/individual-developed efforts to allow execution of sofware on the system-platform of their choice. Where there's 0-question 'legal issue', is when another individual/company starts to try and make profits using Multibillion Dollar Company's Intellectual Properties.

Otherwise, most devs/users already Own the 1st Party Hardware and Own a Use License to the very software they wish to run on their preferred platform tl;dr, what I'm reading is The Meme:

CraptacularI mean one of the emulator developers was literally bragging that they cracked

Not piracy. Reverse Engineering and Intellectual Self-Enrichment are generally protected.

CraptacularAll modern emulators are breaking encryption of current gen systems.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

HakkerCan't really blame Nintendo. They go after emulators of consoles that are still for sale. You also remove anything that tries to eat your own made cake.

Nobody is eating their cake though. People that want a Switch, buy one.

Vayra86Nobody is eating their cake though. People that want a Switch, buy one.

Well... I think the rabid response Nintendo had with the Switch emulation is because people started playing Switch games on the Steam Deck. And if you can have in only one system Steam and Nintendo games... which portable would you chose?

BlosteWell... I think the rabid response Nintendo had with the Switch emulation is because people started playing Switch games on the Steam Deck. And if you can have in only one system Steam and Nintendo games... which portable would you chose?

Still... not remotely the same target audience

BlosteWell... I think the rabid response Nintendo had with the Switch emulation is because people started playing Switch games on the Steam Deck. And if you can have in only one system Steam and Nintendo games... which portable would you chose?

They were at war way before the steam deck was a thing. The "problem" is the first nintendo switch got cracked way too rapidly because of poor design decisions - which hey, fucking awesome!!! But it really hit a nerve with nintendo, that was not supposed to be remotely possible so early into the console lifecycle.

trsttteThey were at war way before the steam deck was a thing. The "problem" is the first nintendo switch got cracked way too rapidly because of poor design decisions - which hey, fucking awesome!!! But it really hit a nerve with nintendo, that was not supposed to be remotely possible so early into the console lifecycle.

Switch emulation matured long before Nintendo went after emulators. People forget that Nitnendo was just getting over the Wii U's failure and wasn't ready to spend money to go after people for emulation which Nintendo has gone to court over it and lost in the past. Nintendo even admits that emulation is legal. CEMU which is a Wii U emulator was able to play BOTW as soon as the game was released, because it was also released for the Wii U. Nintendo has a history of emulators working while the console itself was still in it's life cycle, but that's because Nintendo has a history of never porting their games to PC.

The only reason a Switch 2 emulator doesn't exist is because there isn't this killer game that people want on the Switch 2. Switch was released with Mario Oddssey and BOTW, where Switch 2 has Donkey Kong Bonanza and... Rome wasn't burnt in a day. The moment Nintendo has a killer game on the Switch 2 then it'll be hacked, modded, and emulated within a year.

The biggest problem with a Switch 2 emulator is it's going to require a $5000 GPU to run at a decent framerate.

Early Switch 1 emulators like ryujinx, yuzu and suyu also had pretty steep hardware requirements at the time, like an RTX 3090 card in a $3500 PC. It took modders about five years to get Switch emulators to the point that they ran reasonably well, but you still need to throw a fair amount of hardware at it, especially if you're outputting 4K video. It wasn't an instantaneous engineering exercise where everything was running beautifully 120fps at 4K.

Switch 2's killer game is coming in November, their remastered Ocarina of Time. The timing is no surprise, this (and GTA VI) are two of the biggest items on gamers' holiday wishlists this year. Also Duskblood might spurn more interest.

But it will take years for someone to crack Switch 2, write a decent performing emulator, crack OoT and get that to run well. And initially it'll probably require a $8500 PC.

This fight with Nintendo would likely be less of a problem for them if Nintendo would simply sell games on PC or other platforms.
A lot of people have no interest in buying an overpriced low spec console with very limited features, but would probably pay for games if they were on Steam. Then again, Nintendo goes after people for streaming games or uploading content to YT.

Vayra86Nobody is eating their cake though. People that want a Switch, buy one.

PC gamers are eating that cake.

cvaldesThe biggest problem with a Switch 2 emulator is it's going to require a $5000 GPU to run at a decent framerate.

We already have a PS5 emulator running at a nearly playable frame rate and you think the Switch 2 emulator will need an RTX 5090?

Early Switch 1 emulators like ryujinx, yuzu and suyu also had pretty steep hardware requirements at the time, like an RTX 3090 card in a $3500 PC. It took modders about five years to get Switch emulators to the point that they ran reasonably well, but you still need to throw a fair amount of hardware at it,

It took a little over a year to get Switch emulation working and it worked well in 2019 with a 1080 Ti. The problem was that Switch emulators used a shortcut to get GPU emulation going because Nvidia OpenGL worked well on Nvidia GPU's. So you needed an Nvidia GPU to even get it working, and when it did work on AMD GPU's it was slow. It wasn't until Vulkan was adopted when everyone had decent GPU performance. Most emulators now use Vulkan from the start like KytyPS5.

especially if you're outputting 4K video. It wasn't an instantaneous engineering exercise where everything was running beautifully 120fps at 4K.

Where did 4K come from? Most new games don't run well at 4K max settings on a RTX 4090.

Switch 2's killer game is coming in November, their remastered Ocarina of Time. The timing is no surprise, this (and GTA VI) are two of the biggest items on gamers' holiday wishlists this year.

A game from the 90's is going to be a killer game? I got some bad news for ya. Since Ocarina of TIme is now native on PC, guess what modders are going to do? I mean yes they'll make sexy mods but also graphic enhancement mods.

You should see what people have done with TOTK.

Also Duskblood might spurn more interest.

Not after the Elden Ring update.

But it will take years for someone to crack Switch 2, write a decent performing emulator, crack OoT and get that to run well. And initially it'll probably require a $8500 PC.

Lots of wishful thinking. The method I see of modding a Switch 2 will likely be through a mod chip. You may think that'll be hard to do, but the Switch 1 mod chips are just RP2040's that you solder into the Switch. I've installed a fair amount of RP2040's in Switch 1's myself. You can buy a pack of three for $10 on Amazon. You can't emulate the Switch 2 without it being properly hacked but once it is then you can bet people are going to race to emulate the Switch 2.

DukenukemxIt took a little over a year to get Switch emulation working and it worked well in 2019 with a 1080 Ti. The problem was that Switch emulators used a shortcut to get GPU emulation going because Nvidia OpenGL worked well on Nvidia GPU's. So you needed an Nvidia GPU to even get it working, and when it did work on AMD GPU's it was slow. It wasn't until Vulkan was adopted when everyone had decent GPU performance. Most emulators now use Vulkan from the start like KytyPS5.

The performance issue had more to do with AMD's implementation of OpenGL back then not being great as well as having completely terrible performance at that point in time, which has sinnce been improved. However regardless of, Vulkan is usually better suited for these kind of more modern emulation tasks and offers better performance and flexibility compared to OpenGL.

RulumiThe performance issue had more to do with AMD's implementation of OpenGL back then not being great as well as having completely terrible performance at that point in time, which has sinnce been improved. However regardless of, Vulkan is usually better suited for these kind of more modern emulation tasks and offers better performance and flexibility compared to OpenGL.

It's almost like Vulkan was made to help emulate consoles. SPIR-V and multi-threading makes Vulkan perfect for emulation. As for why OpenGL was better on Nvidia was because Switch authors made use of the similarity of Nintendo Switch's Tegra X1 hardware architecture to Nvidia's OpenGL extensions. It was lazy but it made emulating the Switch easier and faster. Nvidia is known to have custom OpenGL extensions that even to this day can be problematic for anyone who doesn't own an Nvidia card. Look at Nvidium which is a Minecraft mod that enhances the performance of Minecraft using Nvidia's OpenGL extensions. Once Minecraft moved to Vulkan then Nvidium became irrelevant.

AMD's OpenGL drivers do suck but only on Windows. On Linux it didn't make that much of a difference because Yuzu's OpenGL is made for Nvidia. On Linux the OpenGL performance is very competitive against Nvidia. When I still rocked my Vega 56 I couldn't play 3DS games through Citra because OpenGL performance sucked hard on Windows. When I switched to Linux then 3DS emulation ran fast. Modern Citra forks now have Vulkan support which again makes OpenGL problems a thing of the past.

If I had to take a guess of the system requirement to run a potential future Switch 2 emulator it would be basically any modern CPU made in the past 10 years, and an Nvidia RTX 2060 and AMD RX 6600 as the minimum GPU requirement. I'm not talking early Switch 2 emulation development but after a year or two of release. We just had KytyPS5 released months ago and it's still not able to emulate PS5 games 100% speed on modern powerful hardware.