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Help undervolting i7 8750h Throttlestop

Darwin121

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Hi there,

So I started not long ago studying about undervolting and I've been reading a lot of posts from this forum and tried some configurations, but I think I'm not achieving the results I expect.

I have a MI Gaming Laptop
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz
16GB RAM
GPU NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Build 19042

I already tried different Core/Cache undervolts, but mainly I have -125mV Cache and -150mV Core (also tried with -250, which gave me the best Cinebench20 Score of 2689)

I think I'm getting Power Limit Throttle as I see on "Limits" at ThrottleStop, but the odd thing for me it's the fact that I raised the Turbo Boost Long Power Max to 75, from the base 45, and as you can see from TS Log it runs for quite a while reaching 74.7W then Throttles to 45W showing PL1.

Also I think I'm getting to high temperatures.

Another question is that I can't run with higher multiplier than 32/33 when running Cinebench, while at TS Bench it runs at 39 then also drops to 33.

Any help would be appreciated.
 

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unclewebb

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which gave me the best Cinebench20 Score
If an undervolt of -250 mV on the core was working for you, why did you go back to -150 mV?

Check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option. There are multiple sets of turbo power limits. This feature takes care of the secondary power limits.

Some laptops use firmware that will force a 45W TDP limit regardless of any ThrottleStop setting. In this case, there is not much you can do when a laptop manufacturer forces their laptops to 45W. Some MSI laptops have access to an advanced BIOS feature where you can adjust the IMON Slope variable. This tricks the CPU into reporting less power consumption and can be used to get beyond the 45W barrier. Do a Google search to find out more.

Also I think I'm getting too high temperatures.
These are powerful CPUs. When fully unlocked, they consume a lot of power and produce a lot of heat. Some laptops get very hot when these CPUs are allowed to run at full speed.

Try switching to ThrottleStop 9.2.9. It includes a logo with a gray background.
Easier on the eyes for those that like the traditional gray theme.

1609009427136.png


This version also lets you double click on the monitoring table so you can see all of your threads at the same time.
 

Darwin121

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If an undervolt of -250 mV on the core was working for you, why did you go back to -150 mV?

Because I thought maybe I'm going to far, and reducing performance, because I like I said I'm only getting 3,2Ghz and that's my main question.

Check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option. There are multiple sets of turbo power limits. This feature takes care of the secondary power limits.

I really don't know why is that unchecked, last time e looked I always had it checked.

These are powerful CPUs. When fully unlocked, they consume a lot of power and produce a lot of heat. Some laptops get very hot when these CPUs are allowed to run at full speed.

I understand, but I see people getting lower temps, that's why I'm asking.

Another question I have is why I can't put my laptop in C8 state.

Thanks for the fast reply.
 

unclewebb

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why I can't put my laptop in C8 state.
Trying switch to battery power. Still no package C8?

Many laptops are poorly designed. One bad driver can interfere with a CPU using the low power C states. It is very difficult to track these problems down, especially if your laptop never worked correctly when it was new. When idle, what is C0 state activity like? Some users have too many apps running in the background which can prevent the CPU from entering the low power C states.


I'm only getting 3,2Ghz and that's my main question.
Your log file shows power limit throttling at 45W. Your CPU is being forced to slow down to 3300 MHz so it does not exceed 45W. If you check the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box and you are still getting throttling at 45W, there is not much you can do to fix this. Some manufacturers enforce the 45W TDP limit. Check that option and do some more testing.
 

jaceknokia

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Why right after starting the laptop, the power cpu is so much and after some time it suddenly increases by itself?
After on laptop:
1.png

But 1-5 hours later:
2.png
I I don play any games. I have hybrid uhd630 and 1660ti
 
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How is this possible? I'm reaching above 35 W on startup. Even on wake up it's higher than 11W. Either your system is tuned really good or I'm using lots of processes in the background. C0 state is about 3-6%, but I'm having tons of services.
 

jaceknokia

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My y540 is never turn off. Actualy after the night:
 

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unclewebb

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Power consumption is some sort of approximation, calculated within the CPU. It is not measured power consumption. All monitoring software reports the same data using the same Intel recommended method but this data is not 100% accurate. It is just a number used to control the Turbo Boost function.

Here is a 10 core CPU at 5.0 GHz sipping power like a netbook. Probably not accurate. Definitely looks impressive.

 

jaceknokia

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But when it is 1.2W the fans are not working and when the value suddenly jumps to 11.2W you can hear them.

These values can change themselves. Suddenly.
 
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System Name PowerSpec 1720 (Clevo PB70EF-G)
Processor i7-8750H (UV)
Motherboard PB70EF-G
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB 3000MHz 16-18-18-36 1T (OC)
Video Card(s) 115W RTX 2070 8GB GDDR6 (OC/UV)
Storage 500GB WD Black SN700 NVME, 1TB Samsung 980
Display(s) 144Hz G-Sync 17.3" IPS
Case PowerSpec
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster Pro-Gaming X
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard Redragon K556/DITI K585
Software M$ Windows 10 Pro, Throttle Stop 9.4.3, MSi Afterburner, ParkControl
Benchmark Scores CB R23 - 8173/1105, CB R20 - 3172, Fire Strike - 18140, Time Spy - 8287
The key is definitely limiting background programs and services. Try programs like WPD, O&OSU10, non-DCH graphics drivers. Remove GeForce Experience, disable Intel graphics, do not allow Windows to self-update or pre-download drivers.

The 8750H can sit idle (lowest while running for me is C7 ~ 97 - 98%) at MAX Boost frequency (4.1GHz) while only utilizing C0% ~0.3 and PKG Power ~1.8 - 1.9W with all cores Active/Unparked. Absolutely no reason to limit the CPU to lower frequencies. I found if trying to Park unused cores, the sudden unparking of cores (any workload) can cause your described power spikes. Simply leaving all cores Active but idle solved this for me.
 

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jaceknokia

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Will it be the fault of INTEL graphics?

With intel I have 34 degrees and when I turn off Intel I have 41 degrees on 1660ti and then the fans can already be heard.
 
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System Name PowerSpec 1720 (Clevo PB70EF-G)
Processor i7-8750H (UV)
Motherboard PB70EF-G
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB 3000MHz 16-18-18-36 1T (OC)
Video Card(s) 115W RTX 2070 8GB GDDR6 (OC/UV)
Storage 500GB WD Black SN700 NVME, 1TB Samsung 980
Display(s) 144Hz G-Sync 17.3" IPS
Case PowerSpec
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster Pro-Gaming X
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard Redragon K556/DITI K585
Software M$ Windows 10 Pro, Throttle Stop 9.4.3, MSi Afterburner, ParkControl
Benchmark Scores CB R23 - 8173/1105, CB R20 - 3172, Fire Strike - 18140, Time Spy - 8287
It will depend on your machine. My laptop runs a tad more power at idle when utilizing the iGPU along with the dedicated RTX card (Hybrid Mode). Switching to dedicated GPU only and disabling the Intel graphics allows the PKG Power to be in the 1.0-2.0W range at idle.
 

jaceknokia

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For 16 hours, the laptop works all the time in hybrid mode. PKG power 1-2W all the time.
 

ramops

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Hi there

Long time lurker here so decided to create an account, I've decided to look into undervolting since I was getting higher temperatures during idle 60-70 degrees and 95-100 during actual gaming. I managed to decrease it to around 50 with light browsing and playing a youtube on youtube. During gaming it still hits 98 degrees.. How stupid it may sound any idea what I can still do here without losing performance? Also I noticed my PKG power is quite high during gaming it can up to 24/25 and now it just hovering around 7-11 w with occasionaly dip to 5. Keep in mind I'm using an EGPU so the dgpu is disabled. Apparantly it already hit the max of 89/91 without evening gaming!


Happy holidays
throttlestop.png
 

unclewebb

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Your laptop has disabled CPU voltage control. Your voltage request is being ignored.


Your laptop is going to run hot and it will not be able to perform at its full potential. If you want the voltage control feature to work, try finding a previous BIOS version. Intel released an update last December to disable CPU voltage control. What laptop model do you have?

When a Windows 10 computer is idle, here is how much time it needs to spend in the C0 state processing background tasks.


Your computer seems to have something significant running in the background. Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab, organize your running tasks by CPU usage and try to find out what the problem is. Some antivirus programs are pigs. What antivirus program are you using?

Without voltage control you are really limited. Have you ever disassembled your laptop for a thorough cleaning? Replacing the thermal paste can also help with peak temperatures.

The latest version of ThrottleStop makes a Locked CPU a little more obvious.
 

ramops

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Thanks a lot for your follow up, I decided to do an undervolt before I decide to repaste since it would be the first time for me. I'm running an XPS15 9570 with BIOS 1.7.1 I guess that seems the culprit.. Now lets see how to unlock these features. However I did notice quite an performance increase and lower temps since I started out with throttlestop so something must've helped there
 

bullMoose445

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Hi. I am wondering if there's something I did wrong as I keep getting EDP other RING and PL2 CORE throttling all the time during TS Bench or R20 test. I tried changing these values, however, it's still happening. Should I just leave the PP0 power limit to 0 as whenever I tried to change it to 100 or more, it changes to 96 / 80 / 60 on TS 9.3 version (it varies, during testing or idle). Also, every time my laptop turns on, PROCHOT 97°C is always lit up with various limit reasons shown. Is this because of unstable undervolt or bad cooling in general? System is Dell Alienware with i7-8750h. Thanks in advance!
 

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Hi. I am wondering if there's something I did wrong as I keep getting EDP other RING and PL2 CORE throttling all the time during TS Bench or R20 test. I tried changing these values, however, it's still happening. Should I just leave the PP0 power limit to 0 as whenever I tried to change it to 100 or more, it changes to 96 / 80 / 60 on TS 9.3 version (it varies, during testing or idle). Also, every time my laptop turns on, PROCHOT 97°C is always lit up with various limit reasons shown. Is this because of unstable undervolt or bad cooling in general? System is Dell Alienware with i7-8750h. Thanks in advance!
Repaste your CPU.
The difference in temps between cores indicates a bad paste job.
 

unclewebb

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if there's something I did wrong
Most Dell laptops set turbo power limits internally that cannot be modified by using Intel XTU or ThrottleStop. In a laptop with unlocked turbo power limits, an 8750H can score over 3000 points in Cinebench R20. In your Dell Alienware laptop, that is never going to happen. The power limits that Dell are using will limit this CPU to about 2500 points in R20. The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating so technically it is running within spec so there is nothing you can complain to Dell about. The only problem is that it is not running as well as some of the competition's laptops are running.

There is no need to check the PP0 Power Limit. When this or Power Limit 4 are set to 0, they are ignored and should not be the cause of any throttling.

PROCHOT 97°C is always lit up
It is normal for some of the power limits (PL1 and PL2) to be triggered during boot up. Some yellow boxes in Limit Reasons are OK. It is poor design or someone did a poor job applying the thermal paste if PROCHOT is lighting up red during boot up. The load during boot up should not be enough to trigger thermal throttling.

@Caring1 is correct. The significant difference in core temperatures from core to core is usually a sign of a bad thermal paste job or a heatsink that is warped or not sitting square to the CPU.

Should I just leave the PP0 power limit to 0 as whenever I tried to change it to 100 or more, it changes to 96 / 80 / 60 on TS 9.3 version
Are you talking about the PP0 Power Limit near the bottom of the Turbo Power Limits window or are you talking about some other power limit? Show me an example if something is changing. Your screenshot shows the PP0 Power Limit is set to 0 and is not being used.

TS 9.3 reports some of the info in the TPL window in real time so it is easier to see if a computer is making changes without your knowledge. I have no idea what sort of dirty tricks Dell is using. Draw a big circle around whatever is changing so it is obvious. Maybe show me two screenshots that show me what is changing. You might need to use the Lock option to prevent this from happening.
 
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bullMoose445

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Hi @unclewebb, Thanks so much for the explanation. And yes, I was talking about the PP0 power limit at the bottom of the TPL window. Here are some screenshots that show it changes into some random values ( I tried to set it to 100 and it changed to 70 - This did not happen with the previous version of TS ). Also, if PL2 is often lit up in the limit reasons, should I lower or increase the limit? Sorry, I am a bit clueless about this part :( Thank you.
 

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unclewebb

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I tried to set it to 100 and it changed to 70
The PP0 Power Limit cannot be set higher than the PL2 power limit. In your screenshot, you have the PL2 power limit set to 70. If you try to set the PP0 Power Limit to 100, ThrottleStop will change whatever number you enter so it is not greater than your PL2 power limit (70). As far as I know, there is no reason to set the PP0 Power Limit. I would not check this box and I would leave it at the default setting which is 0 on most computers.

When you are running Cinebench, leave the Turbo Power Limits window open. Does the PP0 Power Limit randomly change during a stress test? If that happens, that would be unexpected. I will have a look at the code that controls this box tomorrow to see if that makes any sense.

You are using Speed Shift Technology (SST on the main screen). The BIOS automatically enables Speed Shift on most recent laptops and this cannot be disabled after the BIOS enables it. Best to check the Speed Shift box.
 

bullMoose445

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Ahh I got it now. One more question, how do we know if there are any errors or instability by running the TS bench? Does it lit up in red letter or something? As running cinebench would literally fry my laptop, so I would like to use just TS bench for now to test my settings.
 

unclewebb

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At the top of the TS Bench where it reports the time, if there are any errors, the TS Bench will report the number of errors.

1614700889125.png


I usually stop the test immediately if it shows an error. No point in continuing this test. After 5.6 seconds, I know the CPU is not 100% stable. I know the CPU needs more voltage. Time to raise the voltage and test again. On my 10th Gen desktop CPU, I find this test allows me to come up with a fairly stable voltage in a minimum amount of time.
 

bullMoose445

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Thanks so much for the help :) I will repaste and hopefully see better thermals on the system.
 

Thrasher

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hello reinstall windows, and download throttlestop again it is version 9.3. It solved my problem with the temperature since I cleaned the fans, my question is that they would change these configs?.
in games like control, cod, fifa in that config with the fans in basic it reaches 85 degrees,
cooler boost at 78 degrees, in 3.2ghz the cores at 77 to 80 degrees in basic and in cooler boost I have not tested it yet
Captura de pantalla 2021-03-04 120919.png
Captura de pantalla 2021-03-04 120939.png
 
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