Sunday, April 3rd 2016

JEDEC Says DDR5 Standard Development Rapidly Advancing: ETA, 2018

JEDEC Solid State Technology Association, responsible for creating the standards on which all of your versions of DDR memory are based upon, recently announced that development of the DDR5 memory standard is well underway, and in time for a 2018 release. The standards body said DDR5 memory will provide double the bandwidth and density versus current generation DDR4. along with delivering improved channel efficiency. Though considering the rate at which DDR4 prices have been increasing as of late, we really should fell a little uneasy at what this new memory standard's adoption will entail.

The current highest base clock that JEDEC allows in their DDR4 memory standard before "overclocking" takes over is DDR4-2400 - with timings ranging from 15~18 for the CAS latency, as well as tRCD, and tRP. And if, as JEDEC says, DDR5 is to be "twice as fast", that could imply that we could end up seeing DDR5-4800. Consider that for a moment: DDR4 kits today only go so far as DDR4-4266, and those are so few and far between that they'll cost you a singular kidney.
However, not all was about the new DDR standard: JEDEC also announced how its NVDIMM-P (Non-Volatile Dual Inline Memory Module, Persistent) Hybrid DIMM technology will enable new memory solutions optimized for cost, power usage and performance. Adding to the existing NVDIMM-N JEDEC standards, NVDIMM-P will be a new high capacity persistent memory module for computing systems - akin to Intel's Optane products with 3D XPoint persistent memory, as in, which keeps relevant data stored even when power is cut. Sources: JEDEC, Hot Hardware
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9 Comments on JEDEC Says DDR5 Standard Development Rapidly Advancing: ETA, 2018

#1
bistrocrat
Knowing current price fixation and overall acceptance of that - I do not think that any of producers are interested in any advancements till 2020+... ram prices rose more than +100% (compared to previous year - I bought 16x4 ddr4 for two of my systems - and seriously had to find the receipts - because could not believe my self that I spent less than x0.5 of asking price in same shops for same kits of ddr4 in may and june 2016.)... Not that there is any need for ddr5 or higher frequencies... but just saying - in RAM market - stagnate and maybe even shameless price increase is what we will get for next few years - and if RAM makers will get away with it - other branches will follow :(
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#2
Vayra86
bistrocrat said:
Knowing current price fixation and overall acceptance of that - I do not think that any of producers are interested in any advancements till 2020+... ram prices rose more than +100% (compared to previous year - I bought 16x4 ddr4 for two of my systems - and seriously had to find the receipts - because could not believe my self that I spent less than x0.5 of asking price in same shops for same kits of ddr4 in may and june 2016.)... Not that there is any need for ddr5 or higher frequencies... but just saying - in RAM market - stagnate and maybe even shameless price increase is what we will get for next few years - and if RAM makers will get away with it - other branches will follow :(
Price fixation? That's not entirely it I think.

Blame Mobile. That market took our early adopting of 16/14nm and it causes a lot of demand on the RAM as well.
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#3
Ferrum Master
Vayra86 said:
Price fixation? That's not entirely it I think.

Blame Mobile. That market took our early adopting of 16/14nm and it causes a lot of demand on the RAM as well.
Well... mobile process and parts are not usually compatible... especially RAM... nand is out question too...
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#4
Vayra86
Ferrum Master said:
Well... mobile process and parts are not usually compatible... especially RAM... nand is out question too...
"The reason for the increase in RAM prices is similar to the reason it affects SSD prices — issues such as power outages affecting DRAM manufacturer Samsung have decreased RAM supply at the same time that demand continues to go up. Servers and mobile RAM are the primary drivers of the increased demand, particularly as Android smartphones continue to increase the amount of installed memory."

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/ram-prices-are-increasing-until-third-quarter-2017/

NAND and RAM are closely related...
Posted on Reply
#5
Ferrum Master
Vayra86 said:
particularly as Android smartphone
Scratch your head and dig up the LPDDR datasheets, their speed, voltage and class, they are not that close really. Mobile NAND also is aimed at low power states, mostly being emmc parts... massively different usage patterns and durability. Different parts, for server products yes but without any proof really... their energy state and process node fits for a mobile device, but doesn't work with high power devices[leakage at higher f].

Lack of manufacturing lines is the problem simply as that, not hyping up some odd things... is is just journalism. Micron/Hynix/Elpida/Samsung is just playing around with the market. I would like to say... exactly the same as with the HDD flood, we all know how it ended up.
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#6
Vayra86
Ferrum Master said:


Lack of manufacturing lines is the problem simply as that
That's the same as high demand and low supply, and in the end, these manufacturing plants are the same plants. Also, HDD prices have since come down again.

You don't really think they have a separate plant and workforce for every little subtype of memory? Meanwhile there is a lot of fragmentation (DDR3, DDR4, LPDDR, NAND, etc etc etc), there aren't suddenly more plants/lines, and demand is surging while supply is not. Keep in mind also that we have a lot of new products that now require NAND, like SSD, which is quickly replacing many storage market use cases.
Posted on Reply
#7
Ferrum Master
Vayra86 said:
these manufacturing plants are the same plants.
That's the point really... not that they seen such things the first year... they played the cards accordingly to make more profit.
Posted on Reply
#8
Vayra86
Ferrum Master said:
That's the point really... not that they seen such things the first year... they played the cards accordingly to make more profit.
Yes and at the same time several storage manufacturers went down as well due to lack of demand, so I'm not sure you can point towards some great overall strategy here. You see conspiracy, I see a turbulent marketplace that has seen a big, long low during the late days of DDR3 and is suddenly forced to get moving again with lots of new product and even totally new markets to sell to. Remember that PC was a market in decline, mobile is filling that void, and now PC is gaining traction as well again.
Posted on Reply
#9
Ferrum Master
Vayra86 said:
great overall strategy here. You see conspiracy
Yes because such demand and large quantities makes those things cheaper. The lack of supply is made... kind of artificially... imagine also the fact that now they make 30mm disks at smaller node now, so... they get more from one die disc if we compare like it was two years ago.

All those things summ up. It ain't white and black, so we can not blame mobile parts only... and not that they are saint too... such price fixation things are being exposed also before, not that I would like not to believe...

Before we had boney HumanSmoke as specialist for manufacturing thing statistics. Seems haven't been here for a while..
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