Monday, August 21st 2017

Zen Meeting Vega in AMD "Raven Ridge" APU Confirmed

It looks like AMD will combine its two latest intellectual properties, the "Zen" CPU micro-architecture, and the "Vega" graphics architecture into a single silicon after all, as reports citing leaked OpenCL tables confirm that the company's upcoming Ryzen "Raven Ridge" APU will feature graphics compute units (CUs) based on the "Vega" architecture. It's becoming increasingly clear, that "Raven Ridge" features a "Zen" CCX unit, and a "Vega" based graphics core with up to 12 NGCUs, making up 768 stream processors. The "Zen" CCX talks to the "Vega" graphics core using Infinity Fabric, the same interconnect used between two CCX units on the "Summit Ridge" silicon, and between two "Summit Ridge" dies on the Ryzen Threadripper MCM.

The "Raven Ridge" silicon will hence feature up to 4 CPU cores, with SMT enabling up to 8 threads, up to 8 MB of L3 cache, a "Vega" based graphics core with up to 12 NGCUs making 768 stream processors, a dual-channel DDR4 integrated memory controller, and the same integrated southbridge as "Summit Ridge," featuring two SATA 6 Gb/s ports, and USB 3.0 ports directly from the SoC. In addition, you get a PCI-Express 3.0 x16 interface for graphics, which can be split into two x8 for 2-way multi-GPU. The OpenCL listings speak about two distinct variants, one with 11 NGCUs, and another with 8. AMD plans to roll out the first "Raven Ridge" based products as Ryzen 5 series and Ryzen 7 series mobile APUs, with a desktop debut a little later.
Source: Guru3D
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57 Comments on Zen Meeting Vega in AMD "Raven Ridge" APU Confirmed

#26
Manu_PT
"chaosmassive said:
RIP :
-RX 460/RX550
-Xbone
-PS4
-G4560
-any APU older than this
Ahah sure because this apu will play horizon, lost legacy, spider man, detroit, god of war, red dead redemption 2, etc xD

A rx560 cant even outperform new consoles.
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#27
TheinsanegamerN
"Vya Domus said:
Not exactly sure what you are saying .There is no special silicon for mobile per say , they are just underclocked/undervolted desktop CPUs with perhaps less cache. That is what Intel is doing , and there is no reason why AMD couldn't. They just need to work close to OEM.

Ryzen is very power efficient.
Ryzen has no iGPU. All laptops today use a CPU with a iGPU built in, except for ludicrously expensive LGA2011 laptops.

Thus, the likely hood of sub 1k laptops that use a iGPU less CPU is about as likely as 3DFX coming back from the dead with a GPU faster then a titan XP.

Bit clearer now?
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#28
GhostRyder
I hope some laptops with this come out soon. Would look forward to something cheap with some decent performance for light productivity and light gaming. Kinda tired of lugging my monstrous MSI GT70 around and the Surface Pro is starting to get a little old.
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#29
TheinsanegamerN
"silentbogo said:
Not lenovo directly, but via A275 and A475 certification applications:
https://sertifikasi.postel.go.id/aplikasi/index?key=models&value=Thinkpad&pagegrid=2
Lenovo already has Bristol Ridge APUs in their E-series low-budget models, so there is absolutely zero reason to make the same laptop with the same internals under a different name.

Some more thoughts and educated speculation here:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Confirmed-Lenovo-s-AMD-ThinkPads-A275-and-A475-are-based-on-the-X270-and-T470.240156.0.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-may-be-planning-an-AMD-ThinkPad-lineup-with-Raven-Ridge-APUs.237028.0.html
OOHHH....

Crossing fingers. A 12 inch thinkpad, if it had a raven ridge and dual channel ram, would be an AMAZING hyper mobile semi gaming laptop.

One can dream.
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#30
Countryside
Sounds pretty good cant wait to get it into test bench.
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#31
FrustratedGarrett
At least we'll get to see how a true 4-core Ryzen performs with these APU chips.
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#32
dwade
2 bad gaming chips collide!
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#33
anubis44
Holy crap. A 4 core/8thread Ryzen CPU with 12 compute units of Vega GPU? If this thing can also do Rapid Packed Math, it might actually be sufficient for a lot of gaming applications. Like actual, mainstream level performance, not just low end. Just wow. This'll kill off the low end of add-in boards for good, and will possibly put a dent in the mid-range graphics card market, too.
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#34
Vya Domus
"TheinsanegamerN said:
Ryzen has no iGPU. All laptops today use a CPU with a iGPU built in, except for ludicrously expensive LGA2011 laptops.

Thus, the likely hood of sub 1k laptops that use a iGPU less CPU is about as likely as 3DFX coming back from the dead with a GPU faster then a titan XP.

Bit clearer now?
You do know dedicated graphics chips are a thing in laptops ? Again , there is no reason why AMD would not be able to make this a reality and put their mobile chips inside sub 1000$ laptops. There are already laptops with Intel iGPUs AND dedicated graphics at the 1000$ mark , if anything AMD can drive the prices down. Think for a second.
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#35
GorbazTheDragon
What bugs me is that they have still to release a single CCX desktop CPU.

It's well known that the multi CCX latency generates a performance drop on gaming loads... to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if this APU surpasses the quad core ryzens in gaming performance.
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#36
Kanan
"Vya Domus said:
You do know dedicated graphics chips are a thing in laptops ? Again , there is no reason why AMD would not be able to make this a reality and put their mobile chips inside sub 1000$ laptops. There are already laptops with Intel iGPUs AND dedicated graphics at the 1000$ mark , if anything AMD can drive the prices down. Think for a second.
APUs are vastly superior in terms of power efficiency in laptops because they use way less power than a dedicated GPU in light tasks - so a IGPU working in tandem with a bigger GPU is the best solution, that's why 99% of Zen chips in laptos will probably be APUs. Also 4 cores (8 threads) are enough for laptops anyway. We're talking proper quad cores here, no interconnect delays and bullshit, it's not a 8 core design with disabled cores this time.
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#37
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
"GorbazTheDragon said:
What bugs me is that they have still to release a single CCX desktop CPU.

It's well known that the multi CCX latency generates a performance drop on gaming loads... to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if this APU surpasses the quad core ryzens in gaming performance.
Go back in time for tpu testing, they debunked it
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#38
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
"RejZoR said:
Well, I'll have Vega after all hehe. Waiting for new Ryzen based APU's since the announcement. So I'll be able to retire my trusty AMD E-450 laptop and replace it with Ryzen+Vega APU. I just wonder how low they'll go with them. The laptop I'm aiming needs to be at a 350€ price bracket. It's probably still gonna be quad core without any HT I'm guessing.
Not happening. E-450 is ultra-mobile segment which is 25 watt and down. Mobile are up to 45w. These Zen+Vega APUs will likely retail by themselves for $200+, nevermind the rest of the computer. Ultra mobile retail for <$100. As far as I know, AMD hasn't announced Zen-based ultra mobile chips yet.
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#39
Kanan
I think they will retail for 150-200 or even 100-150. 150-200 being the highend parts with full or almost full cores enabled (as well as CU in GPU) and 100-150 the ones with less cores / CUs activated, eg 2 cores and 384 shaders instead of 4 cores and 768. There will also be some pricing variance between highest clocked models and lower clocked ones, I expect the highest ones to be around 200$.
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#40
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
"The "Raven Ridge" silicon will hence feature up to 4 CPU cores, with SMT enabling up to 8 threads, up to 8 MB of L3 cache, a "Vega" based graphics core with up to 12 NGCUs making 768 stream processors"

That's a $300 processor pretty easily. It's going to be up against i7-7920HQ which is a $568 processor.
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#41
GoldenX
The A10s had 8 units and were not expensive.
Expect some serious control on frequency to keep the APU TDP in check, especially when using the IGP.
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#42
Kanan
I don't think there's a market for this one to cost 300 bucks. The Ryzen 3 and 5 and Intel i3/i5 products are all rivals to this product and going for under 200 in part. This means, 200 bucks is a lot for this one, I could imagine 220 or 230 bucks tops but not more than that, it wouldn't make any sense. The previous top dog APUs of AMD were going for around 150$, I actually bought and built a PC for my uncle using a brand new top dog A10 7850K back then. It has "4" cores (Bulldozer...) and 512 GCN shaders retailing for 150€ back then. So this means I already counted in a 50$ price increase over previous gen.
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#43
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
a) Ryzen stomps all over Bulldozer
b) This is a Vega12 GPU (5% faster clock for clock than Fiji and designed to run at higher clocks)
c) "AMD plans to roll out the first "Raven Ridge" based products as Ryzen 5 series and Ryzen 7 series mobile APUs, with a desktop debut a little later." Mobile goes for a premium, as per Intel's pricing.

Put it altogether, I wouldn't be surprised if the top SKU hits $400.
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#44
Kanan
We will see. :laugh: I don't think so at all, those changes you listed don't make that much of an difference, because a integrated 768 GPU isn't worth 100-250 bucks extra, but that's basically what you said.

Let's make it simple: Ryzen Quad Core CPU, maybe worth 150 bucks tops. IGPU worth about 50 bucks, integrated like that that is. It's not comparable to a standalone GPU with dedicated Ram etc. so 50, maybe 70$ is the peak worth of this part. That's 200-220 bucks, basically what I said earlier. :) I'm 99% sure it will cost under 250 bucks and you can quote me on that later.
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#45
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
It's probably about as fast as an RX 560 (1024 stream processors) which retails for ~$110.

As a 65w part, you would be right but for a 45w part, they fetch a premium.
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#46
xenocide
I expect it to come in lower than the RX 560 to keep costs reasonable.
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#47
Kanan
It's probably not as fast, it's handicapped by 128 bit (Dual Channel) DDR4 2400 - 3200 (eg 2400 MHz = just 38.4 GB/s) compared to proper GDDR5 on the RX 560 part which has over 100 GB/s bandwidth, besides it having less shaders than the RX 560. It's basically maybe half as fast, the bandwidth bottleneck will hit it pretty hard as always. This one has not a HBC/HBCC like Vega, because it lacks its HBM2, so it works like a normal GPU instead, limited by normal factors. Lets say I'd be surprised if it's not bottlenecked again and as always. :)

btw. I'm only talking about desktop highest performance parts here, but those lower power binned products shouldn't be too expensive either. I'm still going with what I said earlier.
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#48
medi01
"GoldenX said:
Weak compared to a 1050
Huh? 560 beats it in quite a number of games.

<div class="youtube-embed" data-id="Pmd-J5oHrYI"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pmd-J5oHrYI/hqdefault.jpg" /><div class="youtube-play"></div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmd-J5oHrYI" target="_blank" class="youtube-title"></a></div>
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#49
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
"linuxgamer72 said:
Would be great if AMD was using it's Vega specific HBCC feature and install a single HBM2 memory die within the APU, acting as a fast last level cache for the iGPU, while latter still can access the shared and much slower DDR4 memory as extended storage when necessary. This would totally eliminate the downside of high latency and low memory bandwidth issues typical for CPU-integrated graphics in most use cases. 3+ TFLOPS iGPU without hard memory limit on a Zen-based 8-threads APU? Wishful thinking...
I'm pretty sure I've seen slides with HBM APUs in them.

Hurrryyy up plz, I want to see the full range of these. The low end APUs have always been too weak, it'd be interesting what they can do do.
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#50
GoldenX
"medi01 said:
Huh? 560 beats it in quite a number of games.

<div class="youtube-embed" data-id="Pmd-J5oHrYI"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pmd-J5oHrYI/hqdefault.jpg" /><div class="youtube-play"></div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmd-J5oHrYI" target="_blank" class="youtube-title"></a></div>
I was referring to the APUs IGP. Here where I live the 460/560 is a lot cheaper than the 1050, so it's a no-brainer.
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