Tuesday, April 10th 2018

AMD Works on "Zen 5" Micro-architecture Already

AMD late Monday posted a video of key people associated with the company's successful Ryzen processor family, to walk down memory lane and stare into the future, on its official YouTube channel. Mike Clark, who holds the designation of Sr. Fellow Design Engineering at AMD, stated that he is "already working on Zen 5." Going by AMD's naming convention, the number next to "Zen" denotes major micro-architecture generation since "Zen" and any "+" following the number denotes refinement to a newer silicon fabrication node. "Zen+," for example, is a refinement of "Zen 1" or simply "Zen" to the newer 12 nm process, and allows AMD engineers to make minor improvements without any major design changes.

On the other hand, "Zen 2" presents AMD with the opportunity to bring about major design changes (think "more than 4 cores per CCX"), or even improvements within the core itself. "Zen 5" is hence the fifth major micro-architecture chance since "Zen," although it would be premature to call it "6th generation Ryzen," as there could be several "+" stopgaps between "Zen +" and "Zen 5." To ensure people don't dismiss Clark's words for a slip of the tongue, AMD even annotated "Yes, he said Zen 5, see Endnote," and in the Endnote that has a lot of CYA statements, confirmed that "Zen 5" is a legit internal code-name for a micro-architecture AMD is working on.
The video follows.

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20 Comments on AMD Works on "Zen 5" Micro-architecture Already

#1
RejZoR
That's cool. I mean, that AMD finally got traction on their CPU's. I just wish they'd achieve the same with GPU's. They were doing so well and their effort just flattened entirely in recent years. Which is a shame, they made amazing GPU's in the past. Not that distant past...
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#2
R0H1T
So I'm assuming Zen5 is Ryzen 5xxx series or has the Raja bug spread to the CPU division as well :shadedshu:
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#3
TheLostSwede
"R0H1T said:
So I'm assuming Zen5 is Ryzen 5xxx series or has the Raja bug spread to the CPU division as well :shadedshu:
Why would it be? Ryzen 2xxx isn't Zen 2, it's Zen+.
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#4
R0H1T
"TheLostSwede said:
Why would it be? Ryzen 2xxx isn't Zen 2, it's Zen+.
Because if it's the fifth major iteration to Zen then expect it to come no sooner than 6-8 years from now, AMD themselves are looking at tick tock. Also this ~

It is an internal codename, could be anything in reality though since PR isn't officially Zen+ IIRC
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#5
sergionography
"RejZoR said:
That's cool. I mean, that AMD finally got traction on their CPU's. I just wish they'd achieve the same with GPU's. They were doing so well and their effort just flattened entirely in recent years. Which is a shame, they made amazing GPU's in the past. Not that distant past...
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back. Nvidias dominance also is not related to their performance because historically; even when AMD had superior performance and architectures they still struggled to get market share. And with AMD pushing for dx12 (close to the metal capability) it only backfired because more developers design their games for nvidia in mind since its the no brainer thing to do with their higher marketshare. Vega as it stands has alot of untapped potential due to features that no one is using. For example Vega is more capable than pascal in general purpose compute, but thats useless when the majority of the professional world is stuck with nvidias proprietary ecosystem. In order for AMD to compete it needs to stop creating original balanced designs and create a simple shader heavy design that tackles the common mainstream game design model.
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#6
Xzibit
"R0H1T said:
Because if it's the fifth major iteration to Zen then expect it to come no sooner than 6-8 years from now, AMD themselves are looking at tick tock. Also this ~

It is an internal codename, could be anything in reality though since PR isn't officially Zen+ IIRC
They do reference Zen+, Zen 2, Zen 3 in the video @11:11+.
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#7
Nephilim666
Better hold off buying until that one.
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#8
bug
"sergionography said:
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back.
So basically it's fine as long as it doesn't have to actually go up against competition ;)

In other news, companies have a development pipeline. That changes the way we understand the world around us :D
Posted on Reply
#9
springs113
"bug said:
So basically it's fine as long as it doesn't have to actually go up against competition ;)

In other news, companies have a development pipeline. That changes the way we understand the world around us :D
Last I check Vega was pitted against the 1080 from AMDs slides, so unless you have internal knowledge...Vega did quite well. Sorry if it didn't fit your expectations.
Posted on Reply
#10
bug
"springs113 said:
Last I check Vega was pitted against the 1080 from AMDs slides, so unless you have internal knowledge...Vega did quite well. Sorry if it didn't fit your expectations.
I was just picking on @sergionography 's wording. Sorry if I tarnished your precious :D
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#11
TristanX
So Zen 3 is not last version of Zen, as they hinted. They have no resources to put in Zen 3 everything what they planned to do, so moved part of work into new revision
Posted on Reply
#12
springs113
"bug said:
I was just picking on @sergionography 's wording. Sorry if I tarnished your precious :D
That is one thing I don't care about. I'll buy whatever I want regardless of what people say. I can get a Titan V if I wanted to right now...I just refuse to. Don't spread fud is all I ask...comments like yours is why I and a lot of people I know are avoiding forums now a days, people cant act right anymore.


@TristanX all it is just a name, could be on a new socket and the sorts. Original Zen is over a year old, if there is a + after every revision then this could be about 5-8 years time.
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#13
bug
"TristanX said:
So Zen 3 is not last version of Zen, as they hinted. They have no resources to put in Zen 3 everything what they planned to do, so moved part of work into new revision
Well, Prescott and Bulldozer have stayed with us for longer than 3 iterations and they were terrible CPUs. I'd be surprised if Zen didn't live past its third iteration.
But at the same time, AMD's own Hammer architecture which used to run circles around Intel, hasn't seen that many iterations in the end. So who knows?
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#14
RejZoR
"sergionography said:
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back. Nvidias dominance also is not related to their performance because historically; even when AMD had superior performance and architectures they still struggled to get market share. And with AMD pushing for dx12 (close to the metal capability) it only backfired because more developers design their games for nvidia in mind since its the no brainer thing to do with their higher marketshare. Vega as it stands has alot of untapped potential due to features that no one is using. For example Vega is more capable than pascal in general purpose compute, but thats useless when the majority of the professional world is stuck with nvidias proprietary ecosystem. In order for AMD to compete it needs to stop creating original balanced designs and create a simple shader heavy design that tackles the common mainstream game design model.
I know. I wanted one. t's just that it was unobtainable for months. And you basically still can't get an aftermarket one. I didn't mind the higher power draw. I have a quality 750W PSU.
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#15
warrior420
It should be no surprise that companies in the semi-conductor industry are working on 4-5+ generations ahead. It takes a LOOOONG time to develop these architectures and bring them to market... And, the fact that every company is sand-bagging... lol. Trust me, I work in the industry... We could have made memory modules with a TB+ of storage... but we don't, because that doesn't make a lot money over time.

Welcome to the industry... Where we know you'll always buy the next gen +10-15% performance boost. XD
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#16
trparky
AMD Ryzen has definitely given Intel a much deserved kick in the rear end but I wouldn't say that Ryzen's been a complete success. There are definitely some issues that came up, memory compatibility, lower single-threaded performance and high clock speed when compared to that of Intel are three major issues that plagued Ryzen. Memory compatibility may be solved with Ryzen 2xxx series but certainly not the single-threaded performance issue along with the clock speed issue, those I seriously doubt will be fixed until Zen 2 (Ryzen 3xxx-series).
Posted on Reply
#17
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
"sergionography said:
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back. Nvidias dominance also is not related to their performance because historically; even when AMD had superior performance and architectures they still struggled to get market share. And with AMD pushing for dx12 (close to the metal capability) it only backfired because more developers design their games for nvidia in mind since its the no brainer thing to do with their higher marketshare. Vega as it stands has alot of untapped potential due to features that no one is using. For example Vega is more capable than pascal in general purpose compute, but thats useless when the majority of the professional world is stuck with nvidias proprietary ecosystem. In order for AMD to compete it needs to stop creating original balanced designs and create a simple shader heavy design that tackles the common mainstream game design model.
For lower power/budget it seems ok aka the new APUs, but the likes of 56/64, it strains and struggles.
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#18
vega22
zen 5 for ddr5 then?
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#19
springs113
"trparky said:
AMD Ryzen has definitely given Intel a much deserved kick in the rear end but I wouldn't say that Ryzen's been a complete success. There are definitely some issues that came up, memory compatibility, lower single-threaded performance and high clock speed when compared to that of Intel are three major issues that plagued Ryzen. Memory compatibility may be solved with Ryzen 2xxx series but certainly not the single-threaded performance issue along with the clock speed issue, those I seriously doubt will be fixed until Zen 2 (Ryzen 3xxx-series).
As if Intel don't have the same kind of release issues...I was a launch owner of the X99 platform. I still have some issues til this day...and I'm quite certain that I cant be the only one.
Posted on Reply
#20
sergionography
"springs113 said:
Last I check Vega was pitted against the 1080 from AMDs slides, so unless you have internal knowledge...Vega did quite well. Sorry if it didn't fit your expectations.
It went up against gtx1080 because thats the best it can do right now. But what i was saying is that it has potential for much more except that AMD isnt dominant enough at this point to push their own technology and features to developers. To put things in perspective for you; Vega 64 has the same die size as a gtx1080 ti, and when run at the same power level as a 1080ti its actually a bit slower than a 1080.

"eidairaman1 said:
For lower power/budget it seems ok aka the new APUs, but the likes of 56/64, it strains and struggles.
Yes because the way amd design their gpus isnt like nvidia. nvidia build their architecture with a preset configuration that gets scaled from top to buttom. Amd on the other hand uses a lego like approach so u end up with different chips from the same generation having varying efficiency due to their different configurations and ratio of compute units that make up the overall package. In general GCN/vega is way more general purpose than pascal, which also could be said is overengineered, so just like amd did with ryzen, they need to streamline their gpu architecture into a simple solid design. Over-engineering almost always ends up giving u some extra features or perks at the price of the main function of the product/design
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