Friday, September 6th 2019

Intel Sourgrapes AMD's Creator Performance Leadership with Laughably Dubious Data

Intel as part of its IFA Berlin client-segment presentation resorted to some very juvenile marketing tactics, inviting criticism from noted PC enthusiast Der8auer. Intel scampered to reclaim its market position in the PC gaming space with the announcement of the Core i9-9900KS 8-core processor, which armed with a 5.00 GHz all-core Turbo Boost frequency, is expected to cement the company's gaming performance leadership. The company didn't leave it at that, and went on to attack AMD's creator performance leadership.

Der8auer observed something curious about a few slides in particular that Intel used to discredit AMD's high-end desktop processors, relating to its Creator performance as tested in Maxon Cinema 4D's benchmark program, Cinebench. Intel claimed that AMD cannot use Cinebench data to represent "real-world" performance as "only 0.22 percent" of users polled by Intel's "Software Improvement Program" respondents use Maxon Cinema 4D. And who are these respondents? Close to 11 million of them, _all_ of whom are notebook and tablet users, and a majority of whom have Software Improvement Program part of OEM bloatware. This, according to Der8auer, is fundamentally dishonest on Intel's part as Maxon Cinema 4D is less likely to be used on portable computers, and more likely on premium desktops or HEDTs. You can watch Der8auer's vlog here (English) or here (German).
The complete slide-deck follows.

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90 Comments on Intel Sourgrapes AMD's Creator Performance Leadership with Laughably Dubious Data

#26
Aerpoweron
Just keep all that marketing BS in mind, when you buy something you don't know a lot about.

All looking at the pictures of the persons shown. I hope they asked them for permission. Not like der 8auer, who they didn't ask for the slides. Not that he minds it. But it would have been nice to ask :)

And what does a CPU have to do with VPN devices? Who came up with that?
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#28
Brusfantomet
Looking at it positivly, it is good to see that AMD is so competitive that Intel starts panicking.


Knowing that English is not my mother tongue, and I am dyslectic, so something could have been lost in translation, but where does connectivity equal to design wins? Unless they are bragging about their connections to the OEM industry? (this slide)
Aerpoweron
Just keep all that marketing BS in mind, when you buy something you don't know a lot about.

All looking at the pictures of the persons shown. I hope they asked them for permission. Not like der 8auer, who they didn't ask for the slides. Not that he minds it. But it would have been nice to ask :)

And what does a CPU have to do with VPN devices? Who came up with that?
If I understand the slides correctly, it’s the part that installing a native x86 application on an ARM based laptop can be difficult. Which actually is true. The sad thing is that is the most truthful part of the presentation.
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#29
Turmania
Intel needs to stop with this B.S. and get on with 10th gen in 10nm process.the gap has been closed down with and they are still stalling.
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#30
efikkan
Every company; including Intel, AMD and Nvidia, always cherry-pick the benchmarks to favor their products, that's why we should only care about unbiased third-party reviews.

We are now finally in the position where both AMD and Intel have solid offerings in the desktop segment. Not that long ago, Intel used to be best in "everything", and many of you think that Zen 2 now is ruling everything in a similar fashion, but that's not the case. Luckily, both are good enough in most scenarios that neither will be a bad choice, but people should try to pick the best option for their requirements and budget. Zen 2 have fortunately come "close enough" in gaming performance to where it's good enough for most, but if you're buying a pure gaming PC you should still buy the best option in that price range, which currently would be Intel (*except for local discounts). Many users also do things like Photoshop and gaming, which would still be areas where Intel have an advantage. But for those who value energy efficiency, or heavily rely on Blender rendering, Cinema4D, or other applications where AMD have a clear advantage, then Zen 2 should be the obvious choice.

fynxer
This just goes to show that Intel is pissing their pants and have nothing that will beat AMD for years.

Intel WORST NIGHTMARE is happening right now, they have to lower prices and go in to a defensive position competing with only price/performance and skewed data because they are NOT the leader anymore.
Get educated, that's not even remotely true.
Intel have had a brand new architecture ready for two years now, just waiting for a suitable node to produce it, and they are also preparing the next one for 2021.

Intel have not been "pissing their pants", been relaxing or whatever. Their fault is in building a strategy where everything relies on a single node being on time, and not having any kind of real "backup plan".
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#31
Unregistered
Amateur marketing day at Intel?

/Seespcperwebsiteref

Oh right...
#32
Nater
lynx29
The fact Enhanced Sync/Freesync does not work with 144hz freesync monitors on navi gpu's 2 months after launch has put me off to AMD in general. I'm considering Intel 10nm and rtx 3xxx series next summer/fall as my ultimate build that will last me 5-7+ years. I really wanted an all AMD setup, but I just want it to work, I don't want to have to fight software... :/

@Durvelle27 Has the latest drivers from yesterday/two days ago fixed any of your issues yet with Navi?
It doesn't work? I've not come across that news until now. Link?
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#33
xkm1948
Hardware wise AMD is side by side again after so many years from the Athlon 64 era. Software and developer support wise AMD still has a loooooooooooong way to go.
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#34
Chomiq
Turmania
Intel needs to stop with this B.S. and get on with 10th gen in 10nm process.the gap has been closed down with and they are still stalling.
They're dumping the 10nm just so they can ditch it and move on to 7nm. Unless in between they'll decide that they need to fill the gap with 10####.
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#35
Nater
xkm1948
Hardware wise AMD is side by side again after so many years from the Athlon 64 era. Software and developer support wise AMD still has a loooooooooooong way to go.
No doubt. I'd love to go AMD at work, but it's SOOO slow in SolidWorks. Granted I don't have a workstation card at home, but it's night and day pitting an i7 6700k vs a Ryzen 5 2600.

So now I'm literally stuck on this 4 year old workstation with no upgrade path. Going to 8700k, 9700k, 9900k, just aren't worth the investment right now, even if I could sell it to management.
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#36
efikkan
xkm1948
Software and developer support wise AMD still has a loooooooooooong way to go.
There is nothing to "support" or "optimize" for. AMD and Intel use the same ISA. Lack of "AMD optimization" is a myth.
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#37
Durvelle27
lynx29
The fact Enhanced Sync/Freesync does not work with 144hz freesync monitors on navi gpu's 2 months after launch has put me off to AMD in general. I'm considering Intel 10nm and rtx 3xxx series next summer/fall as my ultimate build that will last me 5-7+ years. I really wanted an all AMD setup, but I just want it to work, I don't want to have to fight software... :/

@Durvelle27 Has the latest drivers from yesterday/two days ago fixed any of your issues yet with Navi?
Man if I didn’t view this thread I would have never responded. You tagged me but it didn’t show in notifications.

But I couldn’t say as I’m in the middle of moving so my PC is put away right now
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#38
phanbuey
jeez that 3900x really has them frazzled.
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#39
Dave65
Id love to know how many people actually believe the crap in them slides.
Not bashing Intel since all companies do it but they sure seem desperate.
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#40
Slizzo
Der8auer has a great video on this out right now.



Beyond that, you guys need to look at those two slides with the percentages on them. These slides are about their MAINSTREAM DESKTOP lineup. Look at the asterisked text there, their data is from the Intel Customer Improvement Program, which is an app that needs to be installed on your machine that datamines your usage. Now, that's bad enough, but look where the data is coming from. EXCLUSIVELY Notebooks and All-In-Ones. i.e. NOT the target market for any of these apps, really.
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#41
Khilos
SetsunaFZero
Just Intel being douchbag again. Remember the time when Intel’s compiler crippled AMD performance :kookoo:
Lol, it still does. Don't have troubling remembering yesterday when math libraries in Python compiled with Intel's MKL still give speeds like 5x slower than with OpenBlas.
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#42
AnarchoPrimitiv
I guess this is what Intel resorts to after they had their favorite tactic removed from their toolbox: bribing OEMs to not buy AMD products. To specify, this nefarious tool, which was once Intel's "fixer" hasn't been decommissioned because Intel wouldn't resort to such at present, or because they learned the lesson the last time after being found guilty in multiple courts of law, rather, the only thing preventing Intel from doing this is the fact that AMD's products are so competitive and their mindshare has expanded so rapidly, that an OEM would be cutting their own throat to not have AMD in their catalog....and I'm sure Intel is furious about that.
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#43
lexluthermiester
Wow, just wow. This thread has been an amusing read. Needed to break out the hip-boots just to make it this far.

People seem to be forgetting; It's just marketing. It's no different than anyone else's marketing and world is not going to stop spinning just because it's Intel(or AMD...or Apple...or NVidia...etc, etc, etc...).
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#44
Jism
phanbuey
jeez that 3900x really has them frazzled.
AMD had a design, and they knew that each new iteration over the initial zen would only get better, better and better.

The money spend on Jim Keller was worth every penny.
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#45
kapone32
lexluthermiester
Wow, just wow. This thread has been an amusing read. Needed to break out the hip-boots just to make it this far.

People seem to be forgetting; It's just marketing. It's no different than anyone else's marketing and world is not going to stop spinning just because it's Intel(or AMD...or Apple...or NVidia...etc, etc, etc...).
I don't love or hate AMD or Intel but the fact of the matter is that ever since Ryzen has launched Intel have been doing things like exactly this even though they are far from honest. I would agree that it is like the same thing AMD did with Steamroller and the same thing Nvidia did with Jensen's comment about GPUs without Turing cores are garbage. Intel is bigger than all the rest of them though because of the way they have influenced the tech industry to believe that it is Intel or bust. The reason I say that is the amount of desultory comments I see about AMD from people who don't even have one. One of my favourite's is how "terrible" FX CPUs were coming from people who never owned one.
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#46
phanbuey
Jism
AMD had a design, and they knew that each new iteration over the initial zen would only get better, better and better.

The money spend on Jim Keller was worth every penny.
Agreed - also Keller's been sitting in an Intel lab for the past 2 years designing 3d ultra-high density chips, so I have a feeling intel is going to drop a bomb when they do come out of their fab issues.
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#47
Nkd
or you could say Intel is acknowledging AMD is beating them and they are desperate now. Haha. Looks like AMD hires are working their magic, looks like the old RTG team doing marketing. ROFL.

phanbuey
Agreed - also Keller's been sitting in an Intel lab for the past 2 years designing 3d ultra-high density chips, so I have a feeling intel is going to drop a bomb when they do come out of their fab issues.
AMD won't be sitting on their hands either. Its game on at this point. Execution for AMD is top notch at this point with Lisa.
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#48
Jism
Zen 4 and 5 where even done by now, tape out takes a while but a improved version on top of what there is now already is in the make. AMD will have an answer to Intel in various ways. Their CPU lineup is just destroying intel´s fruity tree.
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#49
R0H1T
Nkd
Looks like AMD hires are working their magic, looks like the old RTG team doing marketing.
This is on Ryan, from PCper, if I had known any better I wouldn't even post that name but the slides are basically on the level of "principled" tech!
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#50
phanbuey
Nkd
AMD won't be sitting on their hands either. Its game on at this point. Execution for AMD is top notch at this point with Lisa.
You're joking right? Zen and Zen2 designs saved AMD - their execution is horrible. They are a running joke here in Austin about how bad their supply timing, third party vendor communication, marketing etc. I mean just look at the launches, and try and actually buy a 3900x.

I also have friends that work for AMD, and they complain about what complete sh*t show it is over there.

They have amazing engineers, and Lisa has excellent vision for where they're going, but execution is one of their weakest attributes.
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