The information War enters a new chapter.

kapone32The information War enters a new chapter.

I wonder who will win what at the end. If there'll ever be an end...

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Forcing a state-sponsored (at least, favoured) company, with a huge domestic revenue and an already impressive IP of communications technology to 'adapt' even more might be counter-productive in the long run. Watch SMIC become a monster...

the54thvoidNecessity is the mother of invention.

Forcing a state-sponsored (at least, favoured) company, with a huge domestic revenue and an already impressive IP of communications technology to 'adapt' even more might be counter-productive in the long run. Watch SMIC become a monster...

Many in the west probably would brush it off as nothing. In reality, this would create a huge silicon power independent of western tech in the long run. I can’t think of any long term consequences yet. At the very least it means humanity as a whole is getting more choices

1. One more reason for China to get Taiwan "under control".
2. Depends if the internal Chinese market is big enough to offset the loss. There are not many countries they can sell their stuff to, which has enough buying capacity.

Easo1. One more reason for China to get Taiwan "under control".
2. Depends if the internal Chinese market is big enough to offset the loss. There are not many countries they can sell their stuff to, which has enough buying capacity.

We don't want that to happen

inb4 Taiwan is the next Hong Kong.

xkm1948western tech

How come TSMC is "western tech"?

PowerPCinb4 Taiwan is the next Hong Kong.

Hong Kong was officially handed over to China by UK (in line with 100 years old agreement). Taiwan is a totally different story, US would intervene.

China needs to vastly overpower USA militarily (on "strategic initiative" levels) for that to be even remotely viable.

the54thvoidNecessity is the mother of invention.

Forcing a state-sponsored (at least, favoured) company, with a huge domestic revenue and an already impressive IP of communications technology to 'adapt' even more might be counter-productive in the long run. Watch SMIC become a monster...

SMIC is going to bleed money for some time. They’re behind in both tech and infrastructure compared to any of the western fabs. An article I saw recently mentioned the mid-2020s for them to become profitable and generally catch up in terms of technology. That timeline assumed they find customers to continue growing in the interim and that the CCP infused cash along the way.

SMIC definitely has the potential to become a monster, but the situation is nothing like that now.

So orders move from one Chinese manufacturing company, to another?
Yeah that'll teach them. :rolleyes:

Caring1So orders move from one Chinese silicon manufacturing company, to another?
Yeah that'll teach them. :rolleyes:

Taiwan is not "Chinese", they are independent from China. This move is a huge blow to Huawei, because TSMC has the most advanced foundry at this moment.

And TSMC has to comply by the way, because many of core technologies in VLSI are still licensed to US companies.

sweetTaiwan is not "Chinese", they are independent from China. This move is a huge blow to Huawei, because TSMC has the most advanced foundry at this moment.

And TSMC has to comply by the way, because many of core technologies in VLSI are still licensed to US companies.

I found the pedant. :laugh:
I of course meant one Chinese company to another, ie Huawei to SMIC.

sweetTaiwan is not "Chinese", they are independent from China. This move is a huge blow to Huawei, because TSMC has the most advanced foundry at this moment.

And TSMC has to comply by the way, because many of core technologies in VLSI are still licensed to US companies.

Of course Taiwan is the part of China, there is no need to concerned about such things, LOL.
What we can predict is what will Huawei do to handle it, but not just say ‘Oh, IT‘s over’. Just think about it based on more information.

Caring1I found the pedant. :laugh:
I of course meant one Chinese company to another, ie Huawei to SMIC.

It is Huawei moving orders from TSMC to SMIC, so it's not "A Chinese company to another".

SMIC is also a target of US for patent infringement. With current circumstances, it will take forever for SMIC to reach the same level of TSMC. So in the end, it's a huge blow for Huawei.

medi01Hong Kong was officially handed over to China by UK (in line with 100 years old agreement). Taiwan is a totally different story, US would intervene.

China needs to vastly overpower USA militarily (on "strategic initiative" levels) for that to be even remotely viable.

I don't think it's a "totally different story" at all. And I'm pretty sure China doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the ROC. So would China even want to listen to any story besides their own story?

And you see, it was also supposed to be a little bit of a funny comment about the relationship between Taiwan and China. But it's also not something I would totally dismiss, since Taiwanese people have been afraid of this scenario for many years now. And one of the biggest companies in Taiwan not wanting to work with one of the biggest companies in China is definitely not something China is going to take lightly.

sweetIt is Huawei moving orders from TSMC to SMIC, so it's not "A Chinese company to another".

SMIC is also a target of US for patent infringement. With current circumstances, it will take forever for SMIC to reach the same level of TSMC. So in the end, it's a huge blow for Huawei.

You still going?

PowerPCI don't think it's a "totally different story" at all. And I'm pretty sure China doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the ROC. So would China even want to listen to any story besides their own story?

And you see, it was also supposed to be a little bit of a funny comment about the relationship between Taiwan and China. But it's also not something I would totally dismiss, since Taiwanese people have been afraid of this scenario for many years now. And one of the biggest companies in Taiwan not wanting to work with one of the biggest companies in China is definitely not something China is going to take lightly.

PRC considers ROC a rump state, and many people in Taiwan (esp. the pro-independence camp) consider ROC a goverment in exile and wants Taiwan to be simply called Taiwan. We are not that afraid of this scenario because politicians have been going on about it for decades and have never amounted to anything, probably because it doesn't really benefit anyone, except for maybe weapons dealers from other countries.

Taking TSMC isn't going to be enough to solve China's issues. A lot of the industry replies on suppliers from other places too.

Kohl BaasI wonder who will win what at the end. If there'll ever be an end...

There will be an end. There won't be a win, though.

ive got nothing against Huawei as a company, but im glad the uk is not going with there 5g because why the hell we carnt build it our selfs we have the know how the tec and people willing but our gov just wants to give it to other countrys chinas building our latest nuke power station which again we could do our selfs .

after what they do to hongkong, screw china, hate them

the54thvoidNecessity is the mother of invention.

Forcing a state-sponsored (at least, favoured) company, with a huge domestic revenue and an already impressive IP of communications technology to 'adapt' even more might be counter-productive in the long run. Watch SMIC become a monster...

I'm not sure about that. TSMC is definitely a leader when it comes to IC fabs and that if they want chips with the same characteristics as TSMC's 7nm processes, then this is likely going to be a significant setback. There are plenty of other fabs that they can turn to or they can start spinning up their own, but it'll either not be 7nm-class fabs or it will take several years to get there. The question isn't so much if it's a setback, but rather how much of a setback.

xtreemchaosive got nothing against Huawei as a company, but im glad the uk is not going with there 5g because why the hell we carnt build it our selfs we have the know how the tec and people willing but our gov just wants to give it to other countrys chinas building our latest nuke power station which again we could do our selfs .

Yeah, totally. Even though 3GPP is open standard, the UK (or whatever it's called after the Brexit breakdown) has to violate lots of industry patents if they want AAU smaller than an industrial fridge.

It's REALLY tough job to build good antennae and radio units. Edge and core are easier. There are even off the shelf solutions from intel and nvidia.

Edit: God bless the Queen!

yeah i think we could cobble something together, there quite a few bright guys or girls about and the moneys there we waste it like its going outa date i mean we waste it on nukes and silly wars what we dont need.

xtreemchaosyeah i think we could cobble something together, there quite a few bright guys or girls about and the moneys there we waste it like its going outa date i mean we waste it on nukes and silly wars what we dont need.

No doubt there are some bright bulbs there. Question us will yhe govt spend billions on R&D and patents, just so that the Orange Head is happy, and the 'commie Chinese' are not allowed access to GCHQ?

Also, there is no need to spend insane ammounts of Queen's face on producing own 5G; go get it from Nokia, Ericsson or Samsung. That is, if you 'trust' them too.

kapone32The information War enters a new chapter.

Yeah, for better or for worse... it remains to be seen.

Kohl BaasI wonder who will win what at the end. If there'll ever be an end...

There is no end to this... China may never be at par (at least maybe in short to medium term) but it surely is making itself trying to be independent from the west (which for me is a wise move).

the54thvoidNecessity is the mother of invention.

Forcing a state-sponsored (at least, favoured) company, with a huge domestic revenue and an already impressive IP of communications technology to 'adapt' even more might be counter-productive in the long run. Watch SMIC become a monster...

Sure, China has a lot of IP issues at the moment and if they sincerely want to make this world a better place not just for their citizens but for the world altogether, then they seriously need to do more flexing of muscles to fix their tarnished image. The west should also stop portraying China as the great evil as I think China is only doing what they think is needed for their motherland to survive and thrive (to be fair, all sovereign nation will act this way - just like the great west - so isn't that unfair to deny them such when the west did or has been doing the same thing)... yes, the west had these kind of times dating back a hundred years ago or more. IP issues are not just an issue with China, it's just that now it is their time to shine (or shame depends on the context). The west had their share in the history already.

xkm1948Many in the west probably would brush it off as nothing. In reality, this would create a huge silicon power independent of western tech in the long run. I can’t think of any long term consequences yet. At the very least it means humanity as a whole is getting more choices

Not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when". Indeed more choices for everyone but the west will do anything not to be dislodged from its position. China is really a threat in all fronts - for better or for worse. West's demolition in all fronts won't kill them, it will only make them stronger. China can be like Japan or Korea then but now are great powerhouses. Remember, Japan used to be the west's great enemy.