Monday, September 7th 2020

AMD 4th Gen Ryzen "Vermeer" Zen 3 Rumored to Include 10-core Parts

Yuri "1usmus" Bubliy, author of DRAM Calculator for Ryzen and the upcoming ClockTuner for Ryzen, revealed three pieces of juicy details on the upcoming 4th Gen AMD Ryzen "Vermeer" performance desktop processors. He predicts AMD turning up CPU core counts with this generation, including the introduction of new 10-core SKUs, possibly to one-up Intel in the multi-threaded performance front. Last we heard, AMD's upcoming "Zen 3" CCDs (chiplets) feature 8 CPU cores sharing a monolithic 32 MB slab of L3 cache. This should, in theory, allow AMD to create 10-core chips with two CCDs, each with 5 cores enabled.

Next up, are two features that should interest overclockers - which is Bubliy's main domain. The processors should support a feature called "Curve Optimizer," enabling finer-grained control over the boost algorithm, and on a per-core basis. As we understand, the "curve" in question could even be voltage/frequency. It remains to be seen of the feature is leveraged at a CBS level (UEFI setup program), or by Ryzen Master. Lastly, there's mention of new Infinity Fabric dividers that apparently helps you raise DCT (memory controller) frequencies "slightly higher" in mixed mode. AMD is expected to debut its 4th Gen Ryzen "Vermeer" desktop processors within 2020.
Source: Yuri Bubliy (Twitter)
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53 Comments on AMD 4th Gen Ryzen "Vermeer" Zen 3 Rumored to Include 10-core Parts

#1
dragontamer5788
This should, in theory, allow AMD to create 10-core chips with two CCDs, each with 5 cores enabled.
Hmmm, this is ambiguously worded.

We already have 16-core "chips": the R9 3950x, which features two 8-core chiplets, each with 2-CCDs of 4-cores. Is Zen3 going to be 8-core chiplets with unified L3? Or are they doubling the size to 16-core chiplets with two L3 caches?

Will next generation's "3950x" be 16-core, or 32-core? I think that's the question most of us want answered. I'm betting just a 16-core part, and that this "10-core chip" is just an interesting cost-saving option (like the 12-core 3900x).
Posted on Reply
#3
Bruno Vieira
dragontamer5788
Hmmm, this is ambiguously worded.

We already have 16-core "chips": the R9 3950x, which features two 8-core chiplets, each with 2-CCDs of 4-cores. Is Zen3 going to be 8-core chiplets with unified L3? Or are they doubling the size to 16-core chiplets with two L3 caches?

Will next generation's "3950x" be 16-core, or 32-core? I think that's the question most of us want answered. I'm betting just a 16-core part, and that this "10-core chip" is just an interesting cost-saving option (like the 12-core 3900x).
They are increasing the core counts, not the max core count, 16 cores is a LOT for dual channel memory and with the IPC gain+latency will be awesome.
Posted on Reply
#4
Raendor
Hmm, wonder if 10-core part would take place of 3700x or between it and 3900x? If it’s true of course.
Posted on Reply
#5
dj-electric
Raendor
Hmm, wonder if 10-core part would take place of 3700x or between it and 3900x? If it’s true of course.
Seems clear it will replace 3800X.
AMD is tired of having 8 cores that cost more than other 8 cores and dont sell as much
Posted on Reply
#6
Hardware Geek
dragontamer5788
Hmmm, this is ambiguously worded.

We already have 16-core "chips": the R9 3950x, which features two 8-core chiplets, each with 2-CCDs of 4-cores. Is Zen3 going to be 8-core chiplets with unified L3? Or are they doubling the size to 16-core chiplets with two L3 caches?

Will next generation's "3950x" be 16-core, or 32-core? I think that's the question most of us want answered. I'm betting just a 16-core part, and that this "10-core chip" is just an interesting cost-saving option (like the 12-core 3900x).
I'm wondering if this means why will be moving from 8 core ccd/ccx to 10 or higher unified ccd/ccx for the 4th gen parts. It would be a smart move, especially a 12 or 16 core, which would allow for higher core counts with the unified L3 cache.
Posted on Reply
#7
Raendor
dj-electric
Seems clear it will replace 3800X.
AMD is tired of having 8 cores that cost more than other 8 cores and dont sell as much
that model is so stupid, I even forgot itexists :D
Posted on Reply
#8
theoneandonlymrk
dj-electric
Seems clear it will replace 3800X.
AMD is tired of having 8 cores that cost more than other 8 cores and dont sell as much
Two Ccds also enabled full memory write performance of zen2 so the 3800X was limited to half the write speed Of a dual cc'd 3900X.
One more nudge up for their mid range CPU.
Posted on Reply
#9
Tomgang
Ah bummer. The title just gave me hope that Zen 3 would have 10 core Chiplets and by that up to 20 core possibility. But it seems still 8 core Chiplets.

Not That I would complain about 16 cores, cause that is still a good amount of cores to have at your disposal.

Still waiting impatient for more official news about Zen 3. Like IPC gain, core clock, memory clock support and infinity max clock, how many pcie lanes, gaming performance as the drop of ccx will give less latency and by that improve gaming performance and such things.
Posted on Reply
#10
lynx29
If 4900x can come in at 12 core 24 thread and highest single core speed as in past gens of Ryzen and still maintain $499 price point, I think I am going to go that route. Honestly it's a fair price for so much power. I really don't need more than 8 cores, but meh its only $170 more, which honestly isn't much money these days. I am living rent free with my parents right now though, so maybe that is skewing my opinion a bit lol
Posted on Reply
#11
Chloe Price
I just hope that a "4700" or "4700X" would be in the price point of the recent six-core ones..
Posted on Reply
#12
R0H1T
lynx29
If 4900x can come in at 12 core 24 thread and highest single core speed as in past gens of Ryzen and still maintain $499 price point,
If Intel doesn't have something like a Rocket Lake, Alder lake or whatever freakin lake they have, to compete with AMD on desktops then you'll be disappointed. I mean yeah AMD could try to gain even more market-share with $499 12c/24t part but with the dominant lead they have it'll likely debut at $549-649 price point. Doesn't mean it can't go down to $499 or below, just that at the start I highly doubt it'll be so cheap.
Chloe Price
"4700" or "4700X"
Just hope they clear their dope naming scheme this gen, there's already a 4700g with zen2 cores, AMD don't be Intel :shadedshu:
Posted on Reply
#13
Chloe Price
R0H1T
Just hope they clear their dope naming scheme this gen, there's already a 400g with zen2 cores, AMD don;t be Intel :shadedshu:
Nah... IMO the G series doesn't mix up with the "real" ones, as long as you know that they're one generation behind.
Posted on Reply
#14
R0H1T
Yes, but why go that way? I mean enthusiasts will generally know what they're buying, others not so much. One gen (uarch) of chips should all start with the same 3xxx or 4xxx series as far I'm concerned.
Posted on Reply
#15
jesdals
well I am looking forward to hopefully an early launch
Posted on Reply
#16
Chloe Price
R0H1T
Yes, but why go that way? I mean enthusiasts will generally know what they're buying, others not so much. One gen (uarch) of chips should all start with the same 3xxx or 4xxx series as far I'm concerned.
Dunno but they've done that since the 2200G/2400G so I guess that that's just their marketing strategy. I kinda understand why they do that, since the APUs release about the same time as the newer gen CPU series, so it's kinda understandable to use the similar naming scheme.

It's stupid but I still see their point.
Posted on Reply
#17
Zubasa
dj-electric
Seems clear it will replace 3800X.
AMD is tired of having 8 cores that cost more than other 8 cores and dont sell as much
Personally I rather they have a 20-core Threadripper, so that I don't have to pay $1400+ just for the pcie lanes.
Posted on Reply
#18
Selaya
Chloe Price
I just hope that a "4700" or "4700X" would be in the price point of the recent six-core ones..
Not gonna happen unless they offer a 2-CCD variant of it (with 4 cores disabled in each) ...
Posted on Reply
#19
Chloe Price
Selaya
Not gonna happen unless they offer a 2-CCD variant of it (with 4 cores disabled in each) ...
Well, under 250EUR is ok for me.
Posted on Reply
#20
DemonicRyzen666
Zubasa
Personally I rather they have a 20-core Threadripper, so that I don't have to pay $1400+ just for the pcie lanes.
Hhhmmm considering that trx40 and the Threadripper PRO have the ability to put 8 chiplets on that cpu package. like 2 cores per chiplet on Threadripper PRO with no overclock but 8 channel, Or some other setup with quad channel on trx40. Sometimes I really wonder if there are epic versions like that. And what the performance hit is in those setups.
Posted on Reply
#21
s3thra
4600 - 6 core
4600x - 6 core oc
4700 - 8 core
4700x - 8 core oc
4800 - 10 core
4800x - 10 core oc
4900x - 12 core
4950x - 16 core

Maybe?
Posted on Reply
#22
Dave65
dj-electric
Seems clear it will replace 3800X.
AMD is tired of having 8 cores that cost more than other 8 cores and dont sell as much
Agreed, the 3800x is the the black sheep of the family compared to the 3700x. Good choice for replacement!
Posted on Reply
#23
DemonicRyzen666
s3thra
4600 - 6 core
4600x - 6 core oc
4700 - 8 core
4700x - 8 core oc
4800 - 10 core
4800x - 10 core oc
4900x - 12 core
4950x - 16 core

Maybe?
I'd much rather they use the "50" for an apu like 3650x would've been better instead of 4,000 series since it's not zen 3. It would make much more sense for the genertations.
Posted on Reply
#24
tabascosauz
That would be an intriguing product. If the CCX is now the CCD, then it stands to reason that the 8-core Vermeer is going to share the same latency advantages of the 3300X, a scaled-up 3300X if you will.

Meanwhile, the 10-core SKU might have double the write bandwidth and 2 more cores, but it'll also share the current 2-CCD [slight] DRAM latency penalty, not to mention that having only five cores per CCD places it lower than the six-core SKUs in the binning hierarchy, which might not bode well for volt/freq and speeds on that SKU especially if the 8-cores are poised to have their purported improvements.
Posted on Reply
#25
Caring1
s3thra
4600 - 6 core
4600x - 6 core oc
4700 - 8 core
4700x - 8 core oc
4800 - 10 core
4800x - 10 core oc
4900x - 12 core
4950x - 16 core

Maybe?
No love for XT?
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